tj@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tom Johnson) (05/25/91)
>> In article <1991May22.122355.22785@uservx.afwl.af.mil> hillman@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: >>>I thought System 7 just about did away with the need for DT launch or am >>>missing something. Cann't you just about move anything easily to the Apple >>>menu under System 7? >> >> Sure, you can, but what happens when you have all your DAs there, and several >> applications? You'll find yourself with a 6 mile long apple menu. The thing >> that will help all this is when HAM comes out. I can't wait. I hope you can wait a while longer. And have a bit of money to spend. I have heard that HAM is going to go commercial. Tom -- Tom Johnson "I put this moment.............................here tj@cs.ucla.edu I put this moment......................here I put this moment-- Over here!" (Kate)
ace@tidbits.UUCP (Adam C. Engst) (05/26/91)
In article <1991May24.193727.14832@cs.ucla.edu>, tj@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tom Johnson) writes: I'm curious, what is this HAM that might go commercial. I haven't heard of it but am interested. My suspicion is that Now Utilities may soup up Now Menus to do something like this as well, but I don't know for sure. Cheers ... -Adam > >> In article <1991May22.122355.22785@uservx.afwl.af.mil> hillman@uservx.afwl.af.mil writes: > >> Sure, you can, but what happens when you have all your DAs there, and several > >> applications? You'll find yourself with a 6 mile long apple menu. The thing > >> that will help all this is when HAM comes out. I can't wait. > > I hope you can wait a while longer. And have a bit of money to spend. > I have heard that HAM is going to go commercial. > > Tom > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam C. Engst Editor of TidBITS, the weekly electronic Macintosh journal ace@tidbits.tcnet.ithaca.ny.us The best way to predict the future pv9y@crnlvax5, pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu is to invent it. -Alan Kay
iceman@sequent.com (Ian Evans) (05/29/91)
I have seen, and posted myself, lot's of postings about a hierarchical menu app for System 7.0. Could someone please post a definitive spec sheet about this?? The basic bio-sheet would do: 1. What is it called officially (if it's known yet) 2. What does it do (please be as specific as possible) 3. When will it be available (please give an actual date i.e. 6/1/91) 4. What will it cost (free, shareware fee, commercial product price) 5. Who is writing it. 6. etc., etc. I know I'm NOT alone in WANTING, NEEDING this kind of product. So whoever knows for sure what's going on with this, please respond to myself and to the newsgroups. THANKS!!! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ian C. Evans -- The ICEMAN Sequent Computer Systems Inc. iceman@sequent.com Desktop Computing Platforms ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
iceman@sequent.com (Ian Evans) (05/29/91)
I got this response from claris. It sounds like $$$ is getting in the way of the release of a GREAT product. %^-( >I have seen, and posted myself, lot's of postings about a hierarchical >menu app for System 7.0. Could someone please post a definitive spec >sheet about this?? The basic bio-sheet would do: >1. What is it called officially (if it's known yet) Hierarchical Apple Menu (HAM, for short) >2. What does it do (please be as specific as possible) Does hierarchical menus for nested folders in your Apple Menu Folder (up to either four or six levels). >3. When will it be available (please give an actual date i.e. 6/1/91) Scheduled for release somewhere between 10June and 30June. >4. What will it cost (free, shareware fee, commercial product price) Undetermined at this time. The determination as to whether it will be ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ shareware or commercial is the main thing delaying release. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >5. Who is writing it. Chris Derossi of Apple Computer. One of the meanest of the Blue Meanies. He was also the author of Dimmer, among other things. ------ My comments: When an employee voluntarily?? creates a useful application, the company HAS to automatically stop the presses to see if it can make a quick buck!! I don't mean to slam Claris, but I suppose if I had written the application I might think about making a few $$$. But a multi-million dollar corporation could benefit from making something like HAM public domain. Like Public Folder, HAM could show users how Claris wants to make the mac the workstation of choice. With all of the GREAT new features of System 7.0 and the new PD apps that will surely follow, how can the PC-compatible's keep up with this kind of GREAT technology. %^-) Claris makes great software. We use their products here and are very happy with them. I hope Claris doesn't slow down progress by heaping on bureaucracy. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ian C. Evans -- The ICEMAN Sequent Computer Systems Inc. iceman@sequent.com Desktop Computing Platforms ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) (05/30/91)
In article <1991May29.165016.9560@sequent.com> iceman@sequent.com (Ian Evans) writes: >>5. Who is writing it. > >Chris Derossi of Apple Computer. One of the meanest of the Blue Meanies. >He was also the author of Dimmer, among other things. We must have been at the same parade... >------ >My comments: > >When an employee voluntarily?? creates a useful application, the >company HAS to automatically stop the presses to see if it can make a >quick buck!! I don't mean to slam Claris, but I suppose if I had >written the application I might think about making a few $$$. But a >multi-million dollar corporation could benefit from making something >like HAM public domain. Like Public Folder, HAM could show users how >Claris wants to make the mac the workstation of choice. With all of >the GREAT new features of System 7.0 and the new PD apps that will >surely follow, how can the PC-compatible's keep up with this kind of >GREAT technology. %^-) > >Claris makes great software. We use their products here and are very >happy with them. I hope Claris doesn't slow down progress by heaping >on bureaucracy. > In all fairness to Claris, they have nothing to do with this. Neither does Apple, really. Chris is just looking to get the widest possible distribution of HAM, which means going commercial. -- Dean Yu Blue Meanie, Negative Ethnic Role Model, etc. Apple Computer, Inc. I have nothing to do with HAM except for the fact that Chris is my boss, and I should probably say nice things about him if I want to keep getting paid.
breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) (05/30/91)
In article <53453@apple.Apple.COM> nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) writes: > > In all fairness to Claris, they have nothing to do with this. Neither does >Apple, really. Chris is just looking to get the widest possible distribution >of HAM, which means going commercial. > Oh boy, that Macintosh is really getting expensive for me. (This is not a flame) In the states you can find some distributor who distributes a $10 Product. In Germany you wouldn't find anyone who sells a Mac (App, Init, Tool, whatever) for less than $90. (HyperCard from Claris is almost $200!). So the widest possible distribution get pirate copies of those things. :-( I think I just have to live without it. (Though I doubt that I can.) #pragma whining_off > I have nothing to do with HAM except for the fact that Chris is my boss, > and I should probably say nice things about him if I want to keep getting > paid. Neither do I. :-(( Oliver. --- no .sign next three exits.
alexr@apple.com (Alexander M. Rosenberg) (05/30/91)
In article <1991May29.165016.9560@sequent.com>, iceman@sequent.com (Ian Evans) writes: > > > I got this response from claris. It sounds like $$$ is getting in the > way of the release of a GREAT product. %^-( > > >I have seen, and posted myself, lot's of postings about a hierarchical > >menu app for System 7.0. Could someone please post a definitive spec > >sheet about this?? The basic bio-sheet would do: > > >1. What is it called officially (if it's known yet) > > Hierarchical Apple Menu (HAM, for short) > Unlike Dean, I don't report to Chris, but he's still gonna be pissed at me. I've looked at a few system extensions that provide Heirarchical Apple Menus. (At least one was shown at the developer's conference recently.) While I haven't actually seen Chris', my understanding is that it is far superior to all the other current development efforts. However, all of them suffer from one cosmetic problem: the submenus do not have nice color icons like the regular Apple menu has. Do people think that this is a significant thing? I'm fairly confident that supporting them is technically possible, but would mean an additional development effort (lots of extra work for Chris, as if he doesn't do enough anyway :-) ). With that in mind, would everybody be happy if such a feature were to appear in a second version to be released at a future (undetermined) date (if at all), or would they rather wait to have it in the first version? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Alexander M. Rosenberg - INTERNET: alexr@apple.com - Yoyodyne - - 330 1/2 Waverley St. - UUCP:ucbvax!apple!alexr - Propulsion - - Palo Alto, CA 94301 - - Systems - - (415) 329-8463 - Nobody is my employer so - :-) - - (408) 974-3110 - nobody cares what I say. - -
Randomizer@cup.portal.com (Aron Fingers Nelson) (05/30/91)
Chris is just looking to get the widest possible distribution of HAM, which means going commercial. ---------------------------------------- Are you telling me that HAM won't get wide distribution by its posting to c.b.m? Believe me, we will distribute it far faster than a commercial venture can. Also a lot farther :-) Chris knows when he can make some bucks! :-) Aron_Nelson@cup.portal.com
drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) (05/30/91)
iceman@sequent.com (Ian Evans) writes: >I got this response from claris. It sounds like $$$ is getting in the >way of the release of a GREAT product. %^-( >>I have seen, and posted myself, lot's of postings about a hierarchical >>menu app for System 7.0. Could someone please post a definitive spec >>sheet about this?? The basic bio-sheet would do: >>1. What is it called officially (if it's known yet) >Hierarchical Apple Menu (HAM, for short) >>2. What does it do (please be as specific as possible) >Does hierarchical menus for nested folders in your Apple Menu Folder (up >to either four or six levels). >>3. When will it be available (please give an actual date i.e. 6/1/91) >Scheduled for release somewhere between 10June and 30June. >>4. What will it cost (free, shareware fee, commercial product price) >Undetermined at this time. The determination as to whether it will be > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >shareware or commercial is the main thing delaying release. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>5. Who is writing it. >Chris Derossi of Apple Computer. One of the meanest of the Blue Meanies. >He was also the author of Dimmer, among other things. >------ >My comments: >When an employee voluntarily?? creates a useful application, the >company HAS to automatically stop the presses to see if it can make a >quick buck!! I don't mean to slam Claris, but I suppose if I had >written the application I might think about making a few $$$. But a >multi-million dollar corporation could benefit from making something >like HAM public domain. Like Public Folder, HAM could show users how >Claris wants to make the mac the workstation of choice. With all of >the GREAT new features of System 7.0 and the new PD apps that will >surely follow, how can the PC-compatible's keep up with this kind of >GREAT technology. %^-) >Claris makes great software. We use their products here and are very >happy with them. I hope Claris doesn't slow down progress by heaping >on bureaucracy. I sent this response to Ian in answer to his question. I had the information since Chris is an old friend (we used to work together at an altogether different company). Claris has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with HAM. The determination of whether it will be commercial or shareware is a decision Chris is making, not Claris or Apple -- neither of them are involved. Just wanting to set the record straight before some people jump wildly to wrong conclusions. HAM belongs to Chris Derossi, Claris has not even seen HAM, Apple is not involved in the publishing decision, Claris is not involved, only Chris (and possible publishers -- no, I don't know who they might be) is involved. On a related point, Claris does applications, not utilities (at least not as products). Public Folder was the result of a research effort -- it ended up being given away. XTND is/was a technology that we licensed at no charge to (virtually) anybody and have since given over to Apple because we and they feel that it belongs in the System. There will probably be other such cases in the future -- research and development often spawns by-products that are useful but do not qualify as products. -- | Dennis Cohen drc@claris.com COHEN2 AFC DCohen 71076,1377 | Internet AppleLink AmerOnline CompuServe | Disclaimer: Any unattributed opinions expressed above are _MINE_!
leonardr@sv.portal.com (Leonard Rosenthol) (05/30/91)
In article <0E010025.qn5o4e@tidbits.UUCP>, ace@tidbits.UUCP (Adam C. Engst) writes: > In article <1991May24.193727.14832@cs.ucla.edu>, tj@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tom Johnson) writes: > I'm curious, what is this HAM that might go commercial. I haven't > heard of it but am interested. My suspicion is that Now Utilities > may soup up Now Menus to do something like this as well, but I don't > know for sure. > HAM, which should be obvious by now, stands for Hierarchical Apple Menu, and was written by Chris Derossi (of Apple). What Chris plans to do with HAM is still up in the air, at least the last time I talked to him about it (at the WWDC). However, as Adam mentions above, the folks at Now Software WILL be expanding Now Menus to provide similar capabilities. Leonard Rosenthol Software Ventures Leonard Rosenthol Software Ventures MicroPhone II Development Team
es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) (05/30/91)
Excerpts From netnews.comp.sys.mac.misc: 30-May-91 Re: HAM Alexander Rosenberg@apple.com (1915) >With that in mind, would everybody be happy if such a feature >were to appear in a second version to be released at a future (undetermined) >date (if at all), or would they rather wait to have it in the first version? Actually, I don't like the small icons in the apple menu. They just slow you down. On a Mac SE, scrolling the apple menu is a significant slow down. Without the icons, the speed would probably be the same as System 6.0.x. But that's not what you were asking. I want HAM now. I don't care about the cutesy icons.
long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) (06/01/91)
In article <53453@apple.Apple.COM> nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) writes: >Apple, really. Chris is just looking to get the widest possible distribution >of HAM, which means going commercial. Speaking only for myself, something like this is worth perhaps $5-$10 to me, and I can easily live without it. I would be very surprised if commercial distribution could achieve that price point. If HAM does go commercial, someone will probably write a free/shareware version anyway. As for wide distribution, I would think that could be achieved through comp.binaries.mac and through user groups. Richard C. Long | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | Selfware: If you like --------------- | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | this program, send A First Edition | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com | yourself five bucks!
marosen@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Mark Rosen) (06/01/91)
HAM is sorely needed by many in the Mac community. I don't care about
the small icons; I'd like the functionality.
--
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Mark J. Rosen | Internet: marosen@elbereth.rutgers.edu
| CIS: 72717.2733@compuserve.com
*************************************************************allan@otago.ac.nz (06/05/91)
> However, all of them suffer from one cosmetic problem: the submenus do not > have nice color icons like the regular Apple menu has. WHO CARES!!?? > Do people think that this is a significant thing? I'm fairly confident that > supporting them is technically possible, but would mean an additional > development effort (lots of extra work for Chris, as if he doesn't do enough > anyway :-) ). With that in mind, would everybody be happy if such a feature > were to appear in a second version to be released at a future (undetermined) > date (if at all), or would they rather wait to have it in the first version? No, I don't think this is significant at all. I would be happy if the cute little icons were not included in any version of HAM. I personally cannot see the point in blowing out the development time for what I'm hoping is going to be a VERY useful product, just to get the icons displaying. OK, so some people think the Apple Menu icons are nice, personally I find them annoying. Anyway, please, please, please, lets get that pig rolling, cos I really want (some) HAM. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Allan Udy, Mac Programmer, Computing Services |Phone: +64 3 479 8532 Centre, Otago University, Dunedin, New Zealand. |Fax: +64 3 479 8577 --------------------------------------------------|AppleLink: NZ0031 'It all looks fine, to the naked eye, but it |CompuServe: 74017,2233 don't really happen that way at all...' THE WHO |E-Mail: allan@otago.ac.nz -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
marosen@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Mark Rosen) (06/07/91)
There's no question about it: Allan is absolutely, positively, right
on!
--
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Mark J. Rosen | Internet: marosen@elbereth.rutgers.edu
| CIS: 72717.2733@compuserve.com
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