lauren@vortex.UUCP (Lauren Weinstein) (09/17/83)
I'd be willing to bet that any country whose (presumably government-operated) telephone system charges for unanswered calls also always charges for calls that were fouled up in the system and were never completed in any form. The concepts behind this sort of charging scheme are simple: 1) All you need to charge the calling subscriber is a simple pulse meter (or even a timer if we're going to be *really* crude) that counts all activity on the line, regardless of called party answering supervision status. One might presume that this status isn't even passed back to the originating CO in most cases. 2) Since the government *is* the "phone company" in most countries, they would rake in the dough from such charging techniques. --Lauren-- P.S. I might add that the "alternate long-distance carriers" (MCI, Sprint, etc.) currently use a charging scheme similar to what I mentioned above (this will change in the relatively near future). Currently, they charge for most calls that last longer than a certain preset interval (usually 30-45 seconds) regardless of whether or not the call was answered, terminated in a recording, reached an intercept operator, etc. Needless to say, they don't advertise this little element in their charging algorithm very widely. --LW--
leichter@yale-com.UUCP (Jerry Leichter) (09/19/83)
Re: Charging techniques for phone calls in other countries. Next time you want to complain about telephone company practices here, consider the way the German PTT (Post Telephone & Telegraph - the usual abreviation in much of the world) charges (as related by a friend who lived there for a couple of years). At the end of the month, you get a bill for the total long distance calls you made. The bill contains a single number, the amount you owe. There is no breakdown on a call by call basis, nor will the PTT provide you with one. There is no record of who you called. Further, as a matter of law, the bill is assumed to be correct. If you wish to dispute it, the burden of proof is on YOU to show an error, not on the PTT to show correctness. If you want, you can get a "phone meter" (for an extra charge, I believe). This is simply a timing device attached to your home that duplicates the charging algorithm used at the central office. It allows you to check the bills the PTT sends you. (Presumably, it also can constitute proof of in- correct charges.) BTW, the PTT, which knows it can't lose, tends to respond to complaints like "but a bill 3 times my usual bill when I didn't make any extra calls is obviously unreasonable" with "not to us, pay up". -- Jerry decvax!yale-comix!leichter leichter@yale
filed01@abnjh.UUCP (H. Silbiger) (09/19/83)
The supposition that government phone cmpanies charge for uncompleted calls is not correct. Although most of the world's phone companies are government ownded, the only one that I am aware of that charges for busy's and no-answers is the Danish phone co, and it is privately owned Herman Silbiger AT&T-IS Morristown
jdd@allegra.UUCP (09/20/83)
And, in Denmark (unless they've changed things), when you call from a pay
phone, you don't get your money back if the other party doesn't answer,
\but/ you can make another call if your "k" minutes aren't yet up. In
effect, you've bought the use of the phone for "k" minutes, and can do
whatever you want with it (locally), even make multiple quick calls.
Cheers,
John ("Busy Signal") DeTreville
Bell Labs, Murray Hillakt@mcnc.UUCP (09/20/83)
From: duke!filed01@abnjh.UUCP (H. Silbiger) Mon Sep 19 13:19:46 1983 (abnjh.239) net.followup : Re: charging for uncompleted telephone calls References: vortex.137 Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decvax.UUCP Path: decvax!harpo!floyd!whuxlb!pyuxll!abnjh!filed01 Message-ID: <239@abnjh.UUCP> The supposition that government phone cmpanies charge for uncompleted calls is not correct. Although most of the world's phone companies are government ownded, the only one that I am aware of that charges for busy's and no-answers is the Danish phone co, and it is privately owned Herman Silbiger AT&T-IS Morristown in india, if one makes a person to person call, and the called party is unavailible, the (government owned) phone company charges a minimum fee for putting the call through. akt at ...decvax!mcnc!akt
seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (09/20/83)
Charging for person-to-person calls when the person you want isn't there? I thought the whole purpose of person-to-person calls was to avoid paying unless the person you need is there. In exchange, you pay a higher rate for the call if they're there. Dave Seifert ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert
alan@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Alan Algustyniak) (09/22/83)
While living for 2 years in Switzerland, i found that it, too, gives you no record of the calls you made, just the amount to pay. You CANNOT get a record of the calls you made, and if you contest your bill, the burden of proof is completely on you. In general, in all the Continental West European counties i have info about, the citizens and buyers are treated terribly unfairly by the government and businesses, but more about that in another letter... sdcrdcf!alan SDC Santa Monica Calif
dee@cca.UUCP (Donald Eastlake) (09/22/83)
I think that the United States and Canada are virtually the only places
in the world that believe in person to person calls, which can easily
be used to pass information for free by asking for fictitious persons.
Everywhere else, you get to pay for the call; however, you can usually
make very short cheap calls so for the equivalent of a dime or whatever,
you can call and talk long enough to give you name and ask them to call
back to the payphone you are at or whatever.
+ Donald E. Eastlake, III
ARPA: dee@CCA-UNIX usenet: {decvax,linus}!cca!deedave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (09/25/83)
How many people still have FREE local calls, with no limits whatsoever?
Here in Toronto, Bell Canada charges about $15 for local service, with
free, unlimited calls to about 3 million people (~20 miles in every direction
from the centre of the city [except south, which is into the lake]).
From what I understand, most or all U.S. local phone companies have
changed to billing for local calls, at least by call if not by time.
Dave ("three cheers for Bell Canada") Sherman
P.S. We've had our own problems with Bell Canada reorganizing
to escape the regulators in part, and our rates may be headed up.
--
{cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo,uw-beaver}!utcsrgv!lsuc!davejimjwf@mhtsa.UUCP (09/26/83)
You can be charged for uncompleted calls in the U.S. if you stay at hotels that have an in-house switching system. Some of these hotels take billing info. directly from this switch and they have no way of knowing if the call was completed or not. As a result you will be charged according to the number called and the time the phone is off-hook. Jim Farrell AT&T Bell Laboratories
mark@umcp-cs.UUCP (09/27/83)
Here in the greater metropolitan Washington D.C. area we also
have unlimited free call service, to three states, 6 counties,
and a strange one-of-a-kind things called a 'District of Columbia'.
This local calling area is gigantic.
--
spoken: mark weiser
UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!mark
CSNet: mark@umcp-cs
ARPA: mark.umcp-cs@UDel-Relay