cjm@murdu.oz (Chris James Marone) (06/05/90)
I'm looking for a chess program for the mac. I have a (very old) version of Sargon and would like something more up to date -like one that will play specific openings. Can anyone recommend something? Ideally it would run on a MacII and a Plus. Thanks, Chris (cjm@murdu.ucs.unimelb.edu.au)
halam2@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU (Haseen Alam) (06/05/90)
In article <1874@murdu.oz> cjm@murdu.oz (Chris James Marone) writes: > > I'm looking for a chess program for the mac. I have a (very old) >version of Sargon and would like something more up to date -like one that >will play specific openings. Can anyone recommend something? Ideally >it would run on a MacII and a Plus. > >Thanks, Chris (cjm@murdu.ucs.unimelb.edu.au) I would like to hear opinions as well. Please state if it is color or not. If not does it work on a color Mac. Here is my opinion. I used to have Sargon III (presented to my brother after I upgraded to my IIci), and my ex-roommate had Chessmaster 2000. One day I was curious and had to try out something. I borrowed my roomies SE and his CM 2000. I plugged the two 1meg SE's with dual floppies right next to each other and started up the two chess games. On one Mac I would let the Mac make the first move, and on the other I would duplicate the move. So basically CM2000 and SargonIII were playing with each other. Just to get a fair idea, I did the following tests... SE #1 SE #2 Sargon played 1st CM 2000 played 2nd Sargon played 2nd CM 2000 played 1st CM 2000 played 1st Sargon played 2nd CM 2000 played 2nd Sargon played 1st First I played at the lowest level on both, and then on the next higher level. The results were interesting, but the whole thing was getting boring so I did not try out all the user levels. Whichever program started won the game, swapping machines had no effect. I used to think chess had a "No Win Strategy", ie if you do not want to win then it is harder to make you lose. Results indicate both Sargon III and ChessMaster 2000 are aggressive players. This makes sence from a programming perspective, if there are less items on the board then there will be less moves to scan. But this knowledge makes these games less challenging, since you can create traps by offering. If my hypothesis is correct, then the first person to move has an advantage, and you should not let the Mac move first if you want to have an edge on winning. It will be nice to see a comparison like this with Sargon IV and CM 2100. Does anyone have access to both of them? In any case I would be interested to hear good/bad remarks about some chess packages before I buy a color one. Haseen.
rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (R. Scott V. Paterson) (06/05/90)
I once saw a chess game for an IBM PC that actually had the chess pieces move by animation. The pieces would actually battle with one another. This is chess, so you always know which piece will kill another, but it's fun to watch two pawns going at it or a queen vaporizing a bishop... Does anyone know if this is in the works for the Macintosh? Thanks, -Scott
rmh@apple.com (Rick Holzgrafe) (06/06/90)
In article <3513@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> halam2@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU (Haseen Alam) writes: > So basically CM2000 and SargonIII were playing with each other. [...] > Whichever program started won the game The player who moves first has an advantage. This is true for us humans as well as for computers. The proof is not so much by analysis as by checking the results of chess matches played over the last hundred years or so: statistically, white wins more often. > First I played at the lowest level on both, and then on the next higher > level. The results were interesting, but the whole thing was getting boring > so I did not try out all the user levels. Sounds like you didn't really mediate many games between the two programs. You'd probably need to play quite a few at each level to get any real notion of how the two stack up. It may not be worthwhile: since neither program plays like you do (I assume - see below), which one beats the other may not have much bearing on what kind of game each would give you. > Results indicate both Sargon III and > ChessMaster 2000 are aggressive players. [...] > But this knowledge makes these games less challenging, since > you can create traps by offering. I have never seen a computer chess program that played "like a human being". They have their strengths and weaknesses, as we have ours; if you learn a program's weakness and play to it, you'll do better against it, just as you would playing to a human's weak points. I'm not well familiar with the Mac's programs (I have Sargon III but haven't used it much) but I remember a program on a mainframe that played tactically well (leave a piece weakly protected and you'd lose it every time) but strategically poorly (little notion of proper development once its opening book was exhausted, poor control of the center), and it was terrible at end games. The way to beat it was to play a conservative, defensive game, while trading pieces evenly as quickly as you could. Your goal was to reach the end game quickly while remaining even in material and perhaps superior in position. Then you could clean up fairly easily. I've never liked computer opponents, since I like to concentrate on a strategic game, while they generally force me to focus on short-term tactics instead. But this just means that they're playing to *my* weakness. Sargon III on my Mac Plus could whup me regularly at a low setting, so you should take my comments with a grain, if not a bag, of salt. :-) BTW, I like Sargon III and have been considering getting Sargon IV for my Mac II. ========================================================================== Rick Holzgrafe | {sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual}!apple!rmh Software Engineer | AppleLink HOLZGRAFE1 rmh@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. | "All opinions expressed are mine, and do 20525 Mariani Ave. MS: 77-A | not necessarily represent those of my Cupertino, CA 95014 | employer, Apple Computer Inc."
stevens@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Curt Stevens) (06/06/90)
In article <22550@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (R. Scott V. Paterson) writes: >I once saw a chess game for an IBM PC that actually had the >chess pieces move by animation. The pieces would actually >battle with one another. This is chess, so you always know >which piece will kill another, but it's fun to watch two >pawns going at it or a queen vaporizing a bishop... A friend of mine has this. It is called "Battle Chess" and it is quite entertaining. Of course it takes longer to make a move since you have to wait for the animation to play. As far as I know there is nothing like this for the mac :-< ======================================================================== |Curt Stevens (303) 492-1218| / |arpa: stevens@boulder.colorado.edu| |University of Colorado, Boulder|o o|uucp:{ncar|nbires}!boulder!stevens| |Computer Science Dept. ECOT 7-7| | |----------------------------------| |Campus Box 430 |\_/|I don't believe in intuition, but | |Boulder, Colorado 80309 USA| |I have a strange feeling I will!! | ======================================================================== ======== | Curt | ========
kdq@demott.COM (Kevin D. Quitt) (06/06/90)
I'm unimpressed with the playing abilities of Sargon (from a chess-playing standpoint, not from a programming standpoint), and I refuse to continue to play with a "master" that sounds like a moose. They both play agressively because that's easy to program, and makes them seem better than they are. They both suffer seriously from the horizon effect, and are therefore very susceptible to traps. -- _ Kevin D. Quitt Manager, Software Development 34 12 N 118 27 W DeMott Electronics Co. 14707 Keswick St. Van Nuys, CA 91405-1266 VOICE (818) 988-4975 FAX (818) 997-1190 MODEM (818) 997-4496 Telebit PEP last demott!kdq kdq@demott.com 96.37% of the statistics used in arguments are made up.
chris@imagine.ADMS-RAD.Unisys.COM (Chris Sterritt) (06/08/90)
In article <3513@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU> halam2@umn-d-ub.D.UMN.EDU (Haseen Alam) writes: >In article <1874@murdu.oz> cjm@murdu.oz (Chris James Marone) writes: >> I'm looking for a chess program for the mac. I have a (very old) >>version of Sargon and would like something more up to date -like one that >>will play specific openings. Can anyone recommend something? Ideally >>it would run on a MacII and a Plus. > > Here is my opinion. I used to have Sargon III (presented to my brother > after I upgraded to my IIci), and my ex-roommate had Chessmaster 2000. One > day I was curious and had to try out something. I borrowed my roomies SE > and his CM 2000. I plugged the two 1meg SE's with dual floppies right next > to each other and started up the two chess games. On one Mac I would let > the Mac make the first move, and on the other I would duplicate the move. > So basically CM2000 and SargonIII were playing with each other. > [results deleted] You say that whoever moves first wins, but I've found this not to be the case always. When Psion came out, it's major claim to fame was its three-d board, and that it would beat Sargon III. SO, using switcher (this was a few years ago :-), I played them against each other and Psion won both games. This was at the lowest level. Has anyone ported GNU Chess 3.0 to the mac? ============================================================================ = Chris Sterritt - "Kleenex makes my nose run" - chris@adms-rad.unisys.com = = "The secret is dirt. D-I-R-T. 'D' as in dirt, 'I' as in dirt, 'R' as in = = dirt, 'T' as in Orange Pekoe." -- Churchy LaFemme = ============================================================================
mct@praxis.co.uk (Martyn Thomas) (06/09/90)
Try posting to rec.games.chess for a recommendation.