cox@stpstn.UUCP (Brad Cox) (07/02/90)
In article <3918@dogie.macc.wisc.edu> yahnke@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Ross Yahnke, MACC) writes: >In article <1990Jun28.204508.18882@ariel.unm.edu>, wilcox@hydra.unm.edu (Sherman Wilcox ED.FOUND) writes... >-I am currently a MS Word user, but I am considering switching to >-Nisus (or at least using both word processors). Certain features of I use Nisus and MS Word on the Mac and vi under Unix extensively. I agree with your evaluation of Nisus vs Word, except that I find that shortcomings in the present release of Nisus (2.03; a new release advertised as removing them is due real soon now) have caused me to gravitate back to Word for serious writing, reserving Nisus for only those cases where I really have to have regular expression string searches (cleaning up downloaded text, for example stock prices and the like). However this whole experience trying to find a capable word processor in Macland has been a real disappointment, compared to text processing under Unix/vi/troff, which I used for my first book, lousy user interface and all. When I bought a Mac for my second book, I bought Microsoft Word 3.0 sight unseen, figuring that the makers of a top of the line word processor would have their poop in a group such that I wouldn't have to screw around with bugs and missing features. Wrong on both counts. The bugs in Word 3.0 were far worse than anything I've ever dealt with under unix, and I continue to be plagued with Word 4.0's abysmal page layout logic with respect to pagination of footnotes and embedded figures. And I was totally blind sided by the one thing that I never expected, Word's (and most other Mac utilities, excepting MPW) amateurish conception of what search and replace is all about. For all of its flaws, vi does have its priorities straight on that one (and presumably emacs too, although I rarely use it). Even Nisus does not really up to serious use. Probably the thing I miss the most is the absence of anything corresponding to the g/re/x command, which allows one to search (g) for a regular expression (re) and then apply any command (x) to the lines that match. I shudder to think of how "the rest of us" are replacing repeated spaces with tabs in order to load stock prices and the like into spreadsheets. -- Brad Cox; cox@stepstone.com; CI$ 71230,647; 203 426 1875 The Stepstone Corporation; 75 Glen Road; Sandy Hook CT 06482
teener@apple.com (Michael Teener) (07/03/90)
Although I generally agree with the comments about search and replace for most personal computer word processors, in article <5309@stpstn.UUCP> cox@stpstn.UUCP (Brad Cox) writes: > I shudder to think of how "the rest of us" are replacing repeated spaces > with tabs in order to load stock prices and the like into spreadsheets. This is really not much of a problem in MS Word, just select the stock price columns and change whitespace (^w) with tabs (^t). This use of special "^" characters is, however, about the only thing that Word's search and replace does that is not strictly vanilla. By the way, someone really needs to come up with a better model than even the Unix-ish regular expression. I have a hell of a time explaining this stuff to someone who has successfully avoiding ex/vi/grep arcana. ---- Michael Teener -- 408-974-3521 ---------------------------------+ ---- Internet teener@apple.com, AppleLink TEENER | ---- Apple may know my opinions, but *I* am responsible for them | ---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Transportation by Cheetah N9900U, a loyal beast for the past 7 years.
grobbins@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov (Grobbins (IDM)) (07/04/90)
In article <8964@goofy.Apple.COM> teener@apple.com (Michael Teener) writes: >By the way, someone really needs to come up with a better model than even >the Unix-ish regular expression. I have a hell of a time explaining this >stuff to someone who has successfully avoiding ex/vi/grep arcana. Finding a good interface for regular expressions is damn tough. In designing Nisus the single biggest user interface issue we weren't able to resolve was how to make Nisus' superset of grep available without overloading ASCII characters. Our solution, grafting a menu system onto some regular expressions, was better than the competition's but still disappointing. For those of you who haven't used Nisus, replacing all occurences of one or more spaces with tabs would involve choosing three item from menus. They then appear in the dialog as Find: || Space || << 1 or more occurences || Replace With: || Tab || If anyone has a seen a better solution (no untried ideas, please; prototype it up before posting) I'd love to hear about it. Grobbins grobbins@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov Disclaimer: no connection with Paragon Concepts. Anymore. And to give credit where it's due, the primary designer of Nisus' Find/Replace was Michael Ogawa. Free demo copies of Nisus are available by calling 619-481-1477. Void where prohibited by taste. Do not remove under penalty
boomer@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Rich Akerboom) (07/04/90)
In <2684@dftsrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> grobbins@nssdcs.gsfc.nasa.gov (Grobbins (IDM)) writes: >In article <8964@goofy.Apple.COM> teener@apple.com (Michael Teener) writes: >>By the way, someone really needs to come up with a better model than even >>the Unix-ish regular expression. I have a hell of a time explaining this >>stuff to someone who has successfully avoiding ex/vi/grep arcana. [stuff deleted] >For those of you who haven't used Nisus, replacing all occurences of >one or more spaces with tabs would involve choosing three item from >menus. They then appear in the dialog as > Find: || Space || << 1 or more occurences || > Replace With: || Tab || >If anyone has a seen a better solution (no untried ideas, please; prototype >it up before posting) I'd love to hear about it. I believe the last time I saw Nisus at a Mac show, they had adopted an idea that I'm sure many others had suggested (including myself) to replace the double vertical bars separating the 'Space' and '<< 1 or more occurances' above with a box around the whole 'meta character'. Instead of a confusing series of characters, some of which are '|'s, one sees a series of boxes with things written in them-much clearer. As drawn below: ------- ------------------------- |Space| |<< 1 or more occurances| ------- ------------------------- only on the mac this would show up as a good box. I suggested shadowed rounded rects, so as not to look like a pop-up (although that could be another idea) but to give the appearance of blocks. -- =================================================================== Rich Akerboom Internet, etc.: boomer@eleazar.dartmouth.edu Sylvan Software UUCP: decvax!dartvax!eleazar!boomer P. O. Box 566 Telephone: (802) 649-2238 Norwich, VT 05055 USA -- =================================================================== Rich Akerboom Internet, etc.: boomer@eleazar.dartmouth.edu Sylvan Software UUCP: decvax!dartvax!eleazar!boomer P. O. Box 566 Telephone: (802) 649-2238
Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (07/07/90)
> I use Nisus and MS Word on the Mac and vi under Unix extensively...I find that > shortcomings in > the present release of Nisus (2.03; a new release advertised as removing them > is due real soon now) have caused me to gravitate back to Word for serious > writing... > When I bought a Mac for my second book, I bought Microsoft Word 3.0 sight > unseen, figuring that the makers of a top of the line word processor would > have their poop in a group such that I wouldn't have to screw around with bugs > and missing features. Wrong on both counts. The bugs in Word 3.0 were far > worse than anything I've ever dealt with under unix, and I continue to be > plagued with Word 4.0's abysmal page layout logic with respect to pagination > of footnotes and embedded figures. And I was totally blind sided by the > one thing that I never expected, Word's (and most other Mac utilities, > excepting MPW) amateurish conception of what search and replace is all about. > ... > I shudder to think of how "the rest of us" are replacing repeated spaces > with tabs in order to load stock prices and the like into spreadsheets. > > -- > > Brad Cox; cox@stepstone.com; CI$ 71230,647; 203 426 1875 > The Stepstone Corporation; 75 Glen Road; Sandy Hook CT 06482 Brad, "the rest of us" are using Vantage to change runs of spaces into tabs, as well as doing a bunch of other stuff that normal word processors aren't set up to do. I don't argue that the Mac doesn't offer what you're used to in Unix; rather, I suggest that with the Mac, Vantage is a nice complement to _any_ word processor, a complement I find absolutely necessary and of little inconvenience. So I'm using two programs. So what? Vantage is a DA, and available any time. While lacking the holy GREP that Unix people seem to pray to, Vantage does fill the holes nicely. I say: if Unix tools do what you need, use Unix. If Mac tools do what you need, use Mac. If PC tools do what you need, use PC. Use the tool that's right for the job. Pounding nails with a crescent wrench will ruin your day every time. --Adam-- -- Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200.2!Adam.Frix INET: Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG