[comp.sys.mac.apps] Norton Utilties Shipped

bmug@well.sf.ca.us (BMUG) (07/28/90)

I have touched a shipping copy of Norton Utilities for the Mac at Computerware
(MacOrchard) Berkeley.  Yesterday.  However, Steve Costa, our disk recovery
guru, warns that it still can't recover some of his test disks.  Therefore,
don't expect it to be perfect!

Avi Rappoport
send mail to nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us about EndNote

wilber@nunki.usc.edu (John Wilber) (07/31/90)

In article <19270@well.sf.ca.us> bmug@well.sf.ca.us (BMUG) writes:
>I have touched a shipping copy of Norton Utilities for the Mac at Computerware
>(MacOrchard) Berkeley.  Yesterday.  However, Steve Costa, our disk recovery
>guru, warns that it still can't recover some of his test disks.  Therefore,
>don't expect it to be perfect!

Oh come on, no software can fix ALL disk problems (some are hardware related 
and some are just plain unrecoverable problems).  Just because Disk Doctor
can't fix every disk in the world doesn't mean it has bugs.  The important 
issue is whether it fixes more disk problems than the alternatives.  My
experience has been that it does a *much* better job than the competition.

By the way, you should check your source to see if Steve was really running 
the final release of NUM.  Steve Costa has complained loudly in the past 
about problems with BETA versions of NUM.  He should know better than the 
complain about finding problems in beta-ware.  If it had no problems, it 
wouldn't be beta would it?

werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) (07/31/90)

In article <11117@chaph.usc.edu> wilber@nunki.usc.edu (John Wilber) writes:
>In article <19270@well.sf.ca.us> bmug@well.sf.ca.us (BMUG) writes:
>>I have touched a shipping copy of Norton Utilities for the Mac at Computerware
>>(MacOrchard) Berkeley.  Yesterday.  However, Steve Costa, our disk recovery
>>guru, warns that it still can't recover some of his test disks.  Therefore,
>>don't expect it to be perfect!
>
>Oh come on, no software can fix ALL disk problems (some are hardware related 
>and some are just plain unrecoverable problems).  Just because Disk Doctor
>can't fix every disk in the world doesn't mean it has bugs.  The important 
>issue is whether it fixes more disk problems than the alternatives.  My
>experience has been that it does a *much* better job than the competition.
>
>By the way, you should check your source to see if Steve was really running 
>the final release of NUM.  Steve Costa has complained loudly in the past 
>about problems with BETA versions of NUM.  He should know better than the 
>complain about finding problems in beta-ware.  If it had no problems, it 
>wouldn't be beta would it?

	not quite.  beta is when the author thinks it is bug-free but would
	like others to verify that before staking his reputation on it by
	taking money for it (or so the theory goes)

	The fact that a product goes through a lot of beta-iterations may be
	an indicator that it's  software trying to do something very hard,
	or that the authors didn't quite know what they were doing.

	I am a beta-tester of the Norton Utilities and would like to give
	the authors the benefit of the doubt as it is a long needed piece of 
	software and a very tricky problem to solve ...

					Cheers,		---Werner

ps: all the original article said was: "don't expect it to be perfect",
	and I can hardly see why anyone would object to that statement.

	of course, one would like this particular type of software to be
	perfect (and very much so), but what do you think my guess is why
	Apple has left their users high and dry by providing so few and
	incomplete system utilities?  if you said something relating to
	"a bag of worms", you are very close ...

wilber@nunki.usc.edu (John Wilber) (07/31/90)

In article <846@earth.cs.utexas.edu> werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) writes:
>ps: all the original article said was: "don't expect it to be perfect",
>	and I can hardly see why anyone would object to that statement.

Maybe I'm just picking nits, but in the Subject line it said "Buggy".  Of 
course no product is "perfect", but claims that NUM is buggy are far from
the truth, as I am sure lots of people here can testify to.

bmug@well.sf.ca.us (BMUG) (08/04/90)

OK, I checked with Steve Costa, and this is what he says:  Norton does very
good data recovery, but he's seen 10 - 15 % problems with disk repair.  

For example, we were repairing a 160MB hard disk, and superclock beeped.
After that, all the folders on the disk appeared, but wouldn't open, and 
the data was gone.  Even Steve couldn't recover it.  

These problems were reported to Norton before shipping, and tested on the
shipping version.  

Avi Rappoport
(send EndNote questions to nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us)

wilber@aludra.usc.edu (John Wilber) (08/04/90)

In article <19372@well.sf.ca.us> bmug@well.sf.ca.us (BMUG) writes:
>OK, I checked with Steve Costa, and this is what he says:  Norton does very
>good data recovery, but he's seen 10 - 15 % problems with disk repair.  

I wish you would be more specific about what 10-15% means.  Is that 10% of 
the time a disk can't be fully recovered?  If that's what you mean, it is
definitely NOT a bug.  The fact is that the possibility of reconstructing 
the data on a damaged disk depends on the extent and kind of damage.  If you
use scissors to cut away a hunk of the disk there is no way to recover that
data.  It's not a bug, the software just can't recover data that isn't there
anymore.

>For example, we were repairing a 160MB hard disk, and superclock beeped.
>After that, all the folders on the disk appeared, but wouldn't open, and 
>the data was gone.  Even Steve couldn't recover it.  

There's not much to go on from this description (esp. what impact do you
think SuperClock had on this?), but it sounds like disk doctor just 
couldn't fix the disk because it was too damaged.  If it seems that that
was not the case, we would like to know so that we can track down the 
problem.

>These problems were reported to Norton before shipping, and tested on the
>shipping version.  

I talked to one of the Mac developers about this and he says it doesn't
sound like anything he saw in the beta bug reports.  Is there something 
more we can go on here?

Maybe we should take this matter into mail-land and stop bothering the other
netters with this. No?