rabbit@eddie.mit.edu (Warren J. Madden) (09/14/90)
Greetings! I recently started taking courses involving lots of complex equations. I'd like to be able to use my Mac SE to write papers that would include such equations. Could anybody who has experience with such programs as Expressionist, MacEqn, etc. fill me in on the strengths/weaknesses of each? Thanx in advance, Warren J. Madden rabbit@eddie.mit.edu
phil@waikato.ac.nz (09/18/90)
In article <1990Sep14.160536.1376@eddie.mit.edu>, rabbit@eddie.mit.edu (Warren J. Madden) writes: > I recently started taking courses involving lots of complex > equations. I'd like to be able to use my Mac SE to write papers that would > include such equations. Could anybody who has experience with such > programs as Expressionist, MacEqn, etc. fill me in on the > strengths/weaknesses of each? I did a review of these products for the Australasian equivalent of Wings for the Mind. IMHO, MathType is the best, followed closely by Expressionist. Both of these work best with WriteNow, which recognises embedded code in a PICT object to align an expression vertically within a line. There is an FKEY which I've yet to try out which is supposed to make Word do the same, since Microsoft presumably want you to use Word's equation mode (barf!). MacWrite, PageMaker, RSG are no good for using in conjunction with expression editors as they won't allow you to place an equation within a line of text and have it stick to the text, and/or won't allow sufficently precise vertical alignment. Word Perfect works, but is a bit cumbersome IMHO. I could BinHex the article and email it if anyone outside of Australasia is interested. If I get lots of requests, I'll post the text (the article had samples and screen dumps). -- Phil Etheridge (phil@waikato.ac.nz) /\ /\ -+-,--, .--, ._ Computer Services/Mathematics & Statistics / \/ \ / /--< /-- / University of Waikato, Hamilton, NZ. / \/ /__.) \_ /
ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au (Ian Hoyle) (09/20/90)
phil@waikato.ac.nz writes: >In article <1990Sep14.160536.1376@eddie.mit.edu>, rabbit@eddie.mit.edu (Warren J. Madden) writes: >> I recently started taking courses involving lots of complex >> equations. I'd like to be able to use my Mac SE to write papers that would >> include such equations. Could anybody who has experience with such >> programs as Expressionist, MacEqn, etc. fill me in on the >> strengths/weaknesses of each? >I did a review of these products for the Australasian equivalent of Wings for >the Mind. IMHO, MathType is the best, followed closely by Expressionist. Both >of these work best with WriteNow, which recognises embedded code in a PICT >object to align an expression vertically within a line. There is an FKEY which >I've yet to try out which is supposed to make Word do the same, since Microsoft >presumably want you to use Word's equation mode (barf!). I had thought that Word 4.00b can now use the embedded info. Anyone care to clarify ?? ian -- Ian Hoyle /\/\ Image Processing & Data Analysis Group / / /\ BHP Melbourne Research Laboratories / / / \ 245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170 / / / /\ \ AUSTRALIA \ \/ / / / \ / / / Phone : +61-3-560-7066 \/\/\/ FAX : +61-3-561-6709 E-mail : ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au
kelvin@cs.utexas.edu (Kelvin Thompson) (09/23/90)
In article <ianh.653844970@morgana>, ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au (Ian Hoyle) writes: | phil@waikato.ac.nz writes: | | >In article <1990Sep14.160536.1376@eddie.mit.edu>, rabbit@eddie.mit.edu (Warren J. Madden) writes: | >> Could anybody who has experience with such | >> programs as Expressionist, MacEqn, etc. fill me in on the | >> strengths/weaknesses of each? | | > Both of these work best with WriteNow, which recognises embedded code | > in a PICT object to align an expression vertically within a line. | > There is an FKEY which I've yet to try out which is supposed to make | > Word do the same | | I had thought that Word 4.00b can now use the embedded info. | Anyone care to clarify ?? Word 4.00B does not recognize the baseline information in Expressionist PICT resources. The same should hold for MathType PICTs, since they supposedly use the same system. The FKEY mentioned above works as advertised, but doesn't solve all the problems of pasting equations. The FKEY makes the inserted PICT a subscript -- it lowers the graphic enough so that the equation's baseline is aligned with the regular text baseline. However, stupid Word doesn't adjust the line spacing accordingly. Word assumes that the equation takes up as much space above the baseline as it would if it wasn't subscripted. This means the equation is aligned correctly, but there is a ridiculous amount of white space above the line. If you have the equation isolated in its own paragraph, then you can adjust the line leading to remove some of the excess white space (but that's a pain, and the white space isn't as much of a problem on isolated paragraphs anyway). If the equation is embedded in a long paragraph, then the paragraph ends up looking chopped in two, and I know of no fix. Another drawback of using the FKEY with Word is that Word can only subscript by up to 72 points, so the FKEY won't work on largish equations. Here's my compromise (I'm writing my dissertation with Word and Expressionist presently): [1] I isolate larger expressions into their own paragraphs, as do most technincal books. I *don't* subscript these equations -- they just sit on the baseline. They don't line up with equation numbers and other punctuation, but it doesn't look too bad. [2] I use the FKEY to paste small equations in with other text. I only do this on equations that don't take up much more space than the height of a line. [3] When reasonable, I use Word's embedded equation features. They're okay for very simple expressions. Sorry I don't remember the name of the FKEY. It does as good a job as it can. -- -- Kelvin Thompson, Lone Rider of the Apocalypse kelvin@cs.utexas.edu {...,uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!kelvin
sowa@dublin.llnl.gov (Erik C. Sowa) (09/23/90)
In article <12777@cs.utexas.edu> kelvin@cs.utexas.edu (Kelvin Thompson) writes: >However, stupid Word doesn't adjust the line spacing accordingly. >Word assumes that the equation takes up as much space above the >baseline as it would if it wasn't subscripted. This means the >equation is aligned correctly, but there is a ridiculous amount >of white space above the line. If you have the equation isolated in >its own paragraph, then you can adjust the line leading to remove >some of the excess white space (but that's a pain, and the white >space isn't as much of a problem on isolated paragraphs anyway). >If the equation is embedded in a long paragraph, then the paragraph >ends up looking chopped in two, and I know of no fix. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Simply set the line spacing in the format paragraph dialog to a negative number - e.g., if your paragraph has 24pt line spacing, set it to -24 pts. Of course, if you REALLY need Word to adjust line spacing elsewhere in that paragraph, you are in trouble, because the negative number overrides it. It would be better if Word recognized the baseline... Erik Sowa (sowa@cms1.llnl.gov) ***** That is my opinion, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too.
kt@msor.UUCP (Keith Tizzard) (09/24/90)
In article <12777@cs.utexas.edu> kelvin@cs.utexas.edu (Kelvin Thompson) writes: >In article <ianh.653844970@morgana>, ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au (Ian Hoyle) writes: >| phil@waikato.ac.nz writes: >| >| >In article <1990Sep14.160536.1376@eddie.mit.edu>, rabbit@eddie.mit.edu (Warren J. Madden) writes: >| > There is an FKEY which I've yet to try out which is supposed to make >| > Word do the same >| > >The FKEY mentioned above works as advertised, but doesn't solve all the > They're okay for very simple expressions. > >Sorry I don't remember the name of the FKEY. It does as good a job >as it can. Can anyone please remember the name of the FKEY please. This looks as if it would solve a problem which we are encountering so a knowledge of the FKEY is essential. -- Keith Tizzard MSOR Dept, University of Exeter, Streatham Court, EXETER EX4 4PU, UK tel: (+44) 392 264463 email: kt@msor.exeter.ac.uk kt@msor.UUCP
kelvin@cs.utexas.edu (Kelvin Thompson) (09/26/90)
In article <68581@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, sowa@dublin.llnl.gov writes: | In article <12777@cs.utexas.edu> kelvin@cs.utexas.edu writes: | >If the equation is embedded in a long paragraph, then the paragraph | >ends up looking chopped in two, and I know of no fix. | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Simply set the line spacing in the format paragraph dialog | to a negative number - e.g., if your paragraph has 24pt | line spacing, set it to -24 pts. | | Erik Sowa (sowa@cms1.llnl.gov) I don't think that will work. Won't all the *other* lines in the paragraph get messed up? -- -- Kelvin Thompson, Lone Rider of the Apocalypse kelvin@cs.utexas.edu {...,uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!kelvin
guelzow@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Andreas J. Guelzow) (09/27/90)
In article <12777@cs.utexas.edu> kelvin@cs.utexas.edu (Kelvin Thompson) writes: > >Word 4.00B does not recognize the baseline information in Expressionist >PICT resources. The same should hold for MathType PICTs, since they >supposedly use the same system. > Considering that I wrote the FKEY "Expr <-> MS Word" in an afternoon including the time I needed to figure out the picComment used by Expressionist and MathType (information that by the way is freely available from Prescience), it shows the concern Microsoft has for MS Word users. I would prefer if we would call said FKEY an MS Word bug fix instaetd an FKEy. >The FKEY mentioned above works as advertised, but doesn't solve all the >problems of pasting equations. The FKEY makes the inserted PICT a >... >However, stupid Word doesn't adjust the line spacing accordingly. >Word assumes that the equation takes up as much space above the >baseline as it would if it wasn't subscripted. This means the >... > [1] I isolate larger expressions into their own paragraphs, as > do most technincal books. I *don't* subscript these > equations -- they just sit on the baseline. They don't > line up with equation numbers and other punctuation, but > it doesn't look too bad. > > [2] I use the FKEY to paste small equations in with other text. > I only do this on equations that don't take up much more space > than the height of a line. > > [3] When reasonable, I use Word's embedded equation features. > They're okay for very simple expressions. This is by the way the exact type of work the Bug Fix was designed to support, any large expressions should be displayed anyways! >Sorry I don't remember the name of the FKEY. It does as good a job >as it can. As mentioned above, the name is "Expr <-> MSWord" and it works with Expressionist and MathType. If somebody would like a copy, simply drop me a note! >-- >-- Kelvin Thompson, Lone Rider of the Apocalypse > kelvin@cs.utexas.edu {...,uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!kelvin Andreas Guelzow <guelzow@ccu.umanitoba.ca> (University of Manitoba, Dept. of Mathematics & Astronomy)