tom@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Tom Pfender) (10/31/90)
I would be interested in receiving any information from people who have run comparison tests between Norton and SUM II, or even other brands (ie. Mac Tools and the like). I am interested in who has the *best* disk optimizer/defragmenter and the *best* file recovery system, and backup system. Mail or post to the Net, I am here everyday... Thanks in advance, tpfender@ucsd.edu -tom
kmc4@quads.uchicago.edu (keith matthew cardoza) (10/31/90)
There's no contest. Norton Utilities wins hands down. The optimizer
(Speed Disk) is incredible. Optimizes to 100% defragmentation. I've
worked for an authorized Apple service center for the past three summers
and when we got a hold of NU, all the technicians threw SUM in the trash.
Enough said. Buy Norton. Worth twice what you'll pay for it.
--
Keith Cardoza E-mail : kmc4@midway.uchicago.edu
===============================================================================
The University Of Chicago : "We're smart, you're dumb." 8^)
Macintosh (tm) - Once you go Mac, you never go back.fri0@quads.uchicago.edu (Christian E. Fritze) (10/31/90)
I own SUM II, have used Norton U. here at the U. of C. Our HD crashed recently because some aspect of the file directory was trashed. SUM II's Quick Fix function was not able to rebuild the file, even though I am quite sure it could recover files on the disk to another HD (or floppies). The Norton Utilities Disk Doctor, however, was able to rebuild the directory. The program did crash 4 times before it succeeded, but it crashed at later stages in the analysis of the HD each time. Furthermore, it diagnosed many more problems than I believe SUM could have (bad file creation dates, two files using the same sector, poor tree structure) and gave explanations of what was wrong and how to fix it. I echo the comments of the previous netter who likes Speed Disk. It is much faster than SUM Tune Up. Furthermore, it optimizes your HD by placing system files and apps (seldomly-modified files) near the beginning of the disk, and documents towards the end. SUM II doesn't do this. I have no experience with file recovery per se using Norton. I do know SUM II has worked flawlessly for me in this regard. >>>>>What about this rumor (is it?) that Symantec now owns the Norton package? >>>>> Can I upgrade from SUM II to Norton? -- Christian E. Fritze | AOL:geneman University of Chicago | fri0@midway.uchicago.edu Molecular Genetics and Cell Biology | "No one ever died of laughing" -M.B. --
k38287c@taltta.hut.fi (Mika Thynell) (10/31/90)
In article <13738@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> tom@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Tom Pfender) writes: >I would be interested in receiving any information from people >who have run comparison tests between Norton and SUM II, or even >other brands (ie. Mac Tools and the like). I got Northon last week and I'm wery suprised how much faster my disks are after using Northon's SpeedDisk application. Trashcan is the right place for my SUM II! ****************************************************************************** * Mika Thynell *Internet: mthynell@otax.hut.fi * * Raappavuorenrinne 1 C 32 * k38287c@taltta.hut.fi * * 01620 Vantaa *telebox:ETX089 (MIKA.THYNELL@TELEBOX.TELE.FI* * (90) 878 6094 * * * Q: What is the difference between apple and Apple ? A: The Interface * ******************************************************************************
nick@cs.edinburgh.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (10/31/90)
In article <1990Oct30.231854.2545@midway.uchicago.edu>, kmc4@quads.uchicago.edu (keith matthew cardoza) writes: > > There's no contest. Norton Utilities wins hands down. Hah, guess who just bought SUM II... :-( Does Norton have all the other stuff (in particular, partitioning and file protection)? As a previous article of mine said, SUM II is pretty good at protection except when partition files get corrupted. The SUM-II user interfaces are a bit tacky, but it does the job. How much would I have to may for Norton (I paid around #100 for SUM-II). > The optimizer > (Speed Disk) is incredible. Optimizes to 100% defragmentation. So does SUM-II, unless I'm missing something here... One problem that's going to crop up - when we're all running Desktop Manager, these optimisers are probably going to break, since D.M. seems to keep its Desktop files open all the time. At least, under the current scheme, I can blow away the Finder with an ExitToShell FKEY to optimise volumes (or, use UniFinder)... System 7.0 is going to be great fun for all users of these utilities, I can tell... > Keith Cardoza E-mail : kmc4@midway.uchicago.edu -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcsun!ukc!lfcs!nick ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ "Now remember - and this is most important - you must think in Russian."
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (11/01/90)
In article <1182@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> nick@cs.edinburgh.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) writes: > One problem that's going to crop up - when we're all running Desktop > Manager, these optimisers are probably going to break, since D.M. seems > to keep its Desktop files open all the time. That turns out not to be the case. I just optimized three of my partitions using Norton Speed Disk while Desktop Manager was active. No problem at all. It's much better than Disk Express II, which is what I was using. DE II kept reporting disk directory errors that SUM II, NUM and MacTools Deluxe couldn't find. I guess it's time to feed Disk Express to Oscar. He loves trash. David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
dbarnhar@oiscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (11/01/90)
In article <4267@lib.tmc.edu> drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) writes: >In article <1182@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> nick@cs.edinburgh.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) >writes: >> One problem that's going to crop up - when we're all running Desktop >> Manager, these optimisers are probably going to break, since D.M. seems >> to keep its Desktop files open all the time. > >That turns out not to be the case. I just optimized three of my partitions >using Norton Speed Disk while Desktop Manager was active. No problem at >all. It's much better than Disk Express II, which is what I was using. DE >II kept reporting disk directory errors that SUM II, NUM and MacTools >Deluxe couldn't find. I guess it's time to feed Disk Express to Oscar. He >loves trash. > Be careful! I have just talked with Marvin Carlberg (the chief programmer for Norton Utilities) and there IS at least one directory error that version 1.0 of NU can't find (SUM II and MacTools didn't find it either) that Disk Express noticed and as a result, refused to optimize the disk. I sent the copy of the directory (that FileSaver from Norton makes) to him and he confirmed that NU 1.0 did not diagnose or fix this problem correctly. What was interesting, however, was that NU would optimize the disk around this problem. The optimization worked fine, and the problem (which is one of the possible causes of "Folders from Hell") remained. He sent me a fix that I had to do by hand (with a disk editor) that worked fine. My Folder from Hell went away, and the directory error went away as well. I would say that a good way to tell if DiskExpress is off-base is to run DiskFirstAid on the disk. If it refuses to verify the disk, you know that DiskExpress is at least telling the truth. In my case, DiskFirstAid told me I had the error, and NU 1.0 did not discover it at all. (Marvin did say that the problem would be fixed in a future version.) One thing that should be noted: I do not own or use Disk Express; I only borrowed it from a friend to test the disk. I can't really say whether it does a better (or worse) job of optimizing or whether it should be put in the trash. Disk Express is simply more sensitive about optimizing with directory errors present, and it looks as if it was the one telling the truth when it said I had a directory error. In any case, I do use Norton, and it did an excellent job of optimizing the disk, even when the error was present. Dave Barnhart NCR Cooperative Computing Systems Division 3245 Platt Springs Rd. West Columbia, SC 29169 email: uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!secola!oiscola!dbarnhar -- Dave Barnhart NCR Cooperative Computing Systems Division 3245 Platt Springs Rd. West Columbia, SC 29169 email: uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!secola!oiscola!dbarnhar
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (11/02/90)
In article <313@oiscola.Columbia.NCR.COM> dbarnhar@oiscola.Columbia.NCR.COM writes: > Be careful! I have just talked with Marvin Carlberg (the chief programmer > for Norton Utilities) and there IS at least one directory error that version > 1.0 of NU can't find (SUM II and MacTools didn't find it either) that Disk > Express noticed and as a result, refused to optimize the disk. > > I would say that a good way to tell if DiskExpress is off-base is to run > DiskFirstAid on the disk. If it refuses to verify the disk, you know that > DiskExpress is at least telling the truth. In my case, DiskFirstAid told > me I had the error, and NU 1.0 did not discover it at all. My first posting wasn't quite complete. I also ran Disk FirstAid on the volumes in question. It was also unable to find any directory damage, which is what made me think that DiskExpress was wrong in reporting damage. I've also never had trouble with Folders from Hell. It is interesting, though, that NUM can work around a damaged directory. NUM is a worthwhile purchase for some of its other features, anyhow, so Speed Disk obviates the need for DiskExpress. I may run DE once in a while just to see if it complains about my directories; if it does, I'll check with Disk FirstAid. David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
phil@waikato.ac.nz (11/02/90)
Impressions of Norton Utilities (NU) and a comparison with SUM II (SUM):
The manual was more up to date than Read Me file! Not a big problem, but I
thought it was meant to be the other way around.
NU comes with an installer, which simplies installation. The utilities wanted
are selected, then they are installed in the appropriate place. It didn't mind
that I moved the NU folder into my own Utilities folder after the installation.
A few useful DAs, INITs and CDEVs come with NU, viz:
Fast Find DA replaces Apple's Find File and it is fast. Has useful
options, e.g. Open Document.
DiskLight is an INIT/CDEV which displays an icon (either at the left or
right of the menu bar) when there is disk access going on. It
differentiates between read and write and floppy and hard drive and
might be useful to those who have a hard or floppy disk without a light
or with its light obscured.
KeyFinder is a DA which shows all the key combinations in one big
table. Some people might prefer Key Caps which is slightly more
interactive and where you see the keyboard layout and get to try the
different key combinations out.
Directory Assistance is an INIT that adds some Finder operations to
Open and Save dialog boxes. It also allows the order that files and
folders are listed to be changed. I find it a good extension to the
interface. Being able to select different volumes with a pop up menu
would be a nice addition (I have another INIT which does this).
None of the INITs seemed to react unfavourably with the others in my
arsenal or the applications I've been using lately.
I found deleted file protection easier to enable with Norton.
Disk Doctor checks for desktop and file inconsistencies. On my drive, it found
some files with bundle bits which weren't set (so their proper icons didn't
show) and some files with incorrect dates (from when my Mac was new and I
hadn't set the clock). A report can be produced explaining what was found and
what action was taken, which can be saved to disk as a plain text file.
Speed Disk had similar options and information to SUM Tune Up, but its disk
usage map was easier to see and allowed close inspection of its contents. I
don't know how much use it would be, but it was interesting. I was unable to
compare the optimization, as my disk was not very fragmented (1% according to
SUM, 0.68% according to NU).
The Disk Editor was limited in that sectors couldn't be copied and pasted
(useful for fixing damaged disks by hand) but otherwise provided a lot of
information and allowed changes to be made in an easier format for novice users
than ResEdit provides. SUM was equally limited. FEdit+ is more powerful in this
respect.
Layout Plus is a useful tool. It allows a user to customise Finder and System
settings, something that would otherwise have to be done with ResEdit and a
knowledge of which resources to edit. Most Mac users baulk at tinkering at this
level. NU didn't seem to know that Layout had been renamed Layout Plus, and had
to ask me to find it. It was in the folder where NU was looking for Layout.
On line help in NU is HyperText style and context sensitive. It is one of the
better online help systems I've seen.
NU comes with some extra features not included in SUM II, however SUM provides
a more extensive set of tools. Features provided by SUM II, but not provided by
NU are disk backup, file/folder encryption, fast floppy disk copier and
software disk partitioning.
I doubt if compulsive utility collectors will be able to do without both, as
each has sufficent unique features to justify its purchase.
--
Phil Etheridge (phil@waikato.ac.nz) /\ /\ -+-,--, .--, ._
Computer Services/Mathematics & Statistics / \/ \ / /--< /-- /
University of Waikato, Hamilton, NZ. / \/ /__.) \_ /dhoyt@vx.acs.umn.edu (11/03/90)
> One problem that's going to crop up - when we're all running Desktop > Manager, these optimisers are probably going to break, since D.M. seems > to keep its Desktop files open all the time. One way around this is to dismount your disk in Finder. Start your optimizer, then use SCSI Probe or some other CDEV to mount the disk you want to optimize. This works in SUM and MacTools' optimizers, and probably the others as well. david | dhoyt@vx.acs.umn.edu
alex@grian.cps.altadena.ca.us (Alex Pournelle) (11/06/90)
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) writes: >In article <1182@skye.cs.ed.ac.uk> nick@cs.edinburgh.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) >writes: >> One problem that's going to crop up - when we're all running Desktop >> Manager, these optimisers are probably going to break, since D.M. seems >> to keep its Desktop files open all the time. >That turns out not to be the case. I just optimized three of my partitions >using Norton Speed Disk while Desktop Manager was active. No problem at >all. You can thank the many delays during NUM's Beta for that. John was going to wait for the next release to make Desktop Manager-ified drives behave right, but between Stephan Somogyi's (of McUser Labs) creebing and the desktop accessory conflict-fixing times, there was enough impetus for him to get D.M. drives to work Just Fine. Someone mentioned how they hadn't found any incompatibilities with their suite of DAs and CDEVs. I think the guys at Norton will take particular pride in that offhand comment--they spent a lot of time ironing them out. Most of those delays, by the bye, were caused by a large company in Redmond, WA, who seems to have their own idea of just how Mac applications ought to work. (Only they could Excel with a requester that gets dynamically sized so that buttons appear or disappear depending on how long the total window size is--I could go on.) It was a long and somewhat frustrating beta-test, but worth every minute. NUM is indispensible. Now, if he can just make speed-disk work on drives with bad sectors (coming Real Soon Now)... Beta tester and software-breaker, (``Now it can be told!'') Alex -- Alex Pournelle, freelance thinker Also: Workman & Associates, Data recovery for PCs, Macs, others ...elroy!grian!alex; BIX: alex; voice: (818) 791-7979 fax: (818) 794-2297 bbs: 791-1013; 8N1 24/12/3