baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (11/14/90)
I'm thinking about getting Adobe's Type Reunion and wondered what kind of experiences people out there have been having with it. Anything from "It's great!" to "I wish it would work with XYZ" to "Be careful of these gotchas" would be appreciated. Post or email; I'll summarize to this group. Thanks in advance (from someone whose font menus are getting too darn long). -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." baumgart@esquire.dpw.com | cmcl2!esquire!baumgart | - David Letterman
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (11/15/90)
Type Reunion? Haated it! 1. It prevented FullWrite's "walk-down menus" from working. OK, most of you don't care; you're using Word. 2. In order to choose any style of a typeface, you *had* to use a submenu, i.e., in order to choose Times Roman you had to pull down the Font menu, go to Times and then slide over to the submenu and choose Roman. It sounds like a small inconvenience, but it got on my nerves real fast. I sent that puppy back to MacConnection and settled for shortening my font menu by using Font Harmony (included with Suitcase II). David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kathy Strong) (11/15/90)
In article <4320@lib.tmc.edu> drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) jwrites: >Type Reunion? Haated it! > >... >> >2. In order to choose any style of a typeface, you *had* to use a submenu, >i.e., in order to choose Times Roman you had to pull down the Font menu, >go to Times and then slide over to the submenu and choose Roman. It sounds >like a small inconvenience, but it got on my nerves real fast. Hmm. I sent my opinion of Type Reunion (positive, by the way) to the original poster in email, but I want to correct a misunderstanding here. When using fonts with the "standard four" styles (normal, bold, italic, bold italic), you should NOT have the screen fonts for all four styles installed. Install ONLY the normal font. If you want to bold or italicize it, do so through your application's equivalent of the style menu. If you follow this rule, the only fonts that Type Reunion will assign submenus to are the ones that DON'T follow the "standard four"--Eras, for example, which comes in (I believe) Light, Book, Medium, Demi, Bold, and Ultra. Or Futura and Futura Condensed. The big font families are the ones that Type Reunion was created to handle. By the way, this assumes you are using Adobe Type Manager as well--so that you can get good screen representations of your bolds and italics even without screen fonts installed. In my font menu of 30 or so families, only about eight have submenus. (Of course, being a fiend for extrabolds and lights, those are the eight I use most often...) --Kathy * "Screen font" = "bitmap font" = "suitcase" in the above posting. -- ........................................................................... : Kathy Strong : "Try our Hubble-Rita: just one shot, : : (Clouds moving slowly) : and everything's blurry" : : clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu : --El Arroyo : :..........................................................................:
gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) (11/15/90)
In article <39731@ut-emx.uucp> clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kathy Strong) writes: >In article <4320@lib.tmc.edu> drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) >jwrites: >>Type Reunion? Haated it! >> >>2. In order to choose any style of a typeface, you *had* to use a submenu, >>i.e., in order to choose Times Roman you had to pull down the Font menu, >>go to Times and then slide over to the submenu and choose Roman. It sounds >>like a small inconvenience, but it got on my nerves real fast. > >When using fonts with the "standard four" styles (normal, bold, italic, bold >italic), you should NOT have the screen fonts for all four styles installed. >Install ONLY the normal font. If you want to bold or italicize it, do so >through your application's equivalent of the style menu. If you follow this >rule, the only fonts that Type Reunion will assign submenus to are the ones >that DON'T follow the "standard four"--Eras, for example, which comes in >(I believe) Light, Book, Medium, Demi, Bold, and Ultra. Or Futura and >Futura Condensed. The big font families are the ones that Type Reunion was >created to handle. > >By the way, this assumes you are using Adobe Type Manager as well--so that >you can get good screen representations of your bolds and italics even without >screen fonts installed. In my font menu of 30 or so families, only about >eight have submenus. (Of course, being a fiend for extrabolds and lights, >those are the eight I use most often...) Ok. Right! <grin> I've played a -lot- with Adobe Type Manager [ATM] (haven't had a chance to get at 2.0, though), Adobe Type Reunion [ATR] and Suitcase II (with associated utilities, like Font Harmony). Start with Suitcase II. Indispensable. Period. And one of the bells and whistles I find handy with Suitcase II is its ability to build a font menu consisting of the the actual typefaces. (Just like what MacWrite II does). It's useful for when you're just pondering "Hmm... what'll look good with this?" ATR, since it completely takes over the font-menu creation, disables this feature in Suitcase II as well as MacWrite II's similar feature. Plain Chicago font menus. Ick. By the way, another nice feature of Suitcase II is to show which Postscript font description file is associated with which bitmap. It can really be handy. But totally unrelated to the subject at hand. <grin> Now, Font Harmony, which comes with Suitcase II. It combines a family of bitmaps into one coherent file, so that rather than have Palatino Book, B Palatino Bold, O Palatino Oblique, and BO Palatino Oblique, you have just Palatino. But when you Style Palatino into Italic, you get the O Palatino Oblique bitmap, rather than a simple slanted version of regular Palatino. So, who cares? Well, if you're using ATM, when you call out for a bold face or oblique, ATM builds it -if- you don't have the bitmap installed. If you're impatient (like I am) and/or use slower Macs (like I have to) it's nice to have the bold and oblique bitmaps in the frequently-used 10 and 12 point sizes. Otherwise, you have to wait on ATM to draw the styled type. Let's see if I can bring this all together now. If you're using ATM, it's nice to have the 10 and 12 point bitmaps of the typeface in -all- styles so you don't have to of the typeface so you don't have to wait on ATM to draw them. So, know you have all these styled bitmap fonts in your menu. If you use Font Harmony on the typefaces, you automatically get the styled bitmap with you style the normal typeface, and the WYSIWYG font menu feature of Suitcase II and MacWrite II is still available to you. If you use ATR, you have to go down the menu and then juke over to the secondary menu to get the styled typeface. And the WYSIWYG font menu feature of of Suitcase II and MacWrite II isn't available. For these reasons, I don't use ATR. Some Notes: o Font Harmony also works on Demi typefaces, I've found, often combining the Demi and DemiOblique together. o These arguments assume you aren't using a "cranking" Mac such as a IIfx or IIci, where the wait for ATM is negligible. Also, the increased speed of 2.0 might make ATM negligible on everything but a Classic and LC. If this is the case, then the styled bitmaps aren't needed (we used them because we didn't want to wait on ATM, remember?), and most of the argument above is moot. That is, unless you -really- like WYSIWYG font menus. o I am in no way associated with Adobe, 5th Generation, or Apple Computer. Nor are these the opinions of The Ohio State University or Academic Computing Services. My opinions. Mine mine mine mine! -- Jim Gaynor - Systems Analyst 1 + "This is Serious. He is Lost. The Ohio State University ACS-FM-OCES | We must begin the Search at once." gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.ed | -Rabbit, from gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu + "The House at Pooh Corner"
clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kathy Strong) (11/15/90)
In article <1990Nov15.141545.15598@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@magnus. ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) writes: > > I've played a -lot- with Adobe Type Manager [ATM] (haven't had >a chance to get at 2.0, though), Adobe Type Reunion [ATR] and Suitcase >II (with associated utilities, like Font Harmony). > Ah, you definitely want 2.0. A noticeable increase in speed, not to mention that Adobe is offering again their "upgrade ATM and get any font package for $39" deal. If anyone from Adobe is reading (hi,dkletter!) I'd like to say thanks for that offer, and keep it up. > Start with Suitcase II. Indispensable. Period. And one of >the bells and whistles I find handy with Suitcase II is its ability to >build a font menu consisting of the the actual typefaces. (Just like >what MacWrite II does). It's useful for when you're just pondering >"Hmm... what'll look good with this?" ATR, since it completely takes >over the font-menu creation, disables this feature in Suitcase II as >well as MacWrite II's similar feature. Plain Chicago font menus. Ick. > Ah, well... I've disabled that feature in my Suitcase because I find it of limited usefulness (one can't REALLY tell what a font looks like from a 12-point bitmap) and a definite drag on the speed of opening the menu :-) Different strokes, I guess. > Now, Font Harmony, which comes with Suitcase II. It combines > [stuff omitted] >slanted version of regular Palatino. So, who cares? Well, if you're >using ATM, when you call out for a bold face or oblique, ATM builds it >-if- you don't have the bitmap installed. If you're impatient (like I >am) and/or use slower Macs (like I have to) it's nice to have the bold >and oblique bitmaps in the frequently-used 10 and 12 point sizes. >Otherwise, you have to wait on ATM to draw the styled type. > Hmm. I have an SE, not exactly a speed demon, but I do have it crammed with RAM and my font cache is around 900K. That plus ATM 2.0 has reduced redraw time to an acceptable level for me. I used the earliest version of Font Harmony and didn't like it all that much, but it sounds as though it's worth a second look. Thanks for the info, Jim! --Kathy -- ........................................................................... : Kathy Strong : "Try our Hubble-Rita: just one shot, : : (Clouds moving slowly) : and everything's blurry" : : clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu : --El Arroyo : :..........................................................................:
bcs-jim@pro-angmar.UUCP (Jim Rinaldo) (11/16/90)
In-Reply-To: message from baumgart@esquire.dpw.com Steve: I did a review of it a couple of months ago and this is my ATR summary: It is a neat program, but if you are getting Adobe Illus. 3.0, it isn't worth it. The interface pretends to be macdraw-like, but sometimes doesn't act that way. Selecting things can be a little screwy. Also, make sure Helvetica is on your system, since this is what it defaults to for type. One More thing: The color specs in the program are in CMYK; if you are doing a text effect, then saving in Illustrator format, MAKE SURE to reset the colors, including black! One More More thing: the program's most innovative DA feature is the snapshot camera, where you can take a snapshot of the page under the DAs window, and it will show up as a template to bend text to. Very neat! I give the program a solid 7.8; screwy interface brought it down from a 9. Jim Rinaldo Editor, Computer-Aided Publishing Solutions (CAPs) The Boston Computer Society BCS: (617) 367-8080, FAX: 367-8530 pro-angmar!bcs-jim@alphalpha.com
baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (11/16/90)
In article <39731@ut-emx.uucp>, clouds@ccwf (Kathy Strong) writes: >[...] the only fonts that Type Reunion will assign submenus to are the ones >that DON'T follow the "standard four"--Eras, for example, which comes in >(I believe) Light, Book, Medium, Demi, Bold, and Ultra. Or Futura and >Futura Condensed. The big font families are the ones that Type Reunion was >created to handle. This convinces me, since that's exactly my situation. As long as I can continue to use the choices in the Mac's Style menus for the standard fonts, I don't lose anything, and Type Reunion will eliminate the need for head scratching when it comes time to figure out just what Font Harmony has helpfully harmonized for me... :-) Actually, I've been using Font Harmony for a long while now, and I'd say that as long as you don't start using fonts with "Demi", "Book", "Light", etc., styles, it's all you need. Also, the summary from those who emailed their opinions to me was strongly positive. So it looks like I'll be getting it sometime soon. Thanks, one and all, for the opinions, hints and suggestions. -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." baumgart@esquire.dpw.com | cmcl2!esquire!baumgart | - David Letterman
meuchen@grad2.cis.upenn.edu (Paul Eric Menchen) (11/16/90)
Just thought I would throw in my comments and respond to a few others. First, I love Type Reunion. We had it where I worked this summer, where we also had lots of typefaces. I like seeing the real designations and of course the convienence. Response: Some people complained they didn't get the WYSIWYG. As I recall holding down the shift key before selecting font from a menu will allow it to behave without ATR. One of our employees who liked Suitcase II used this to display the faces. Personally, I never use this feature. I either know what the face looks like (most the old Adobe ones), or wouldn't rely on a 72 dpi bitmap to make such a judgement call. I would refer to my _Font & Function_ or other vendor catalogue. Finally, I had no compatibility problems. BTW, I don't use MicroSoft software :^) -Eric meuchen@grad1.cis.upenn.edu
clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kathy Strong) (11/16/90)
In article <1966.mac.apps@pro-angmar> bcs-jim@pro-angmar.UUCP (Jim Rinaldo) writes: > >I did a review of it a couple of months ago and this is my ATR summary: >It is a neat program, but if you are getting Adobe Illus. 3.0, it isn't worth >it. >The interface pretends to be macdraw-like, but sometimes doesn't act that way. >Selecting things can be a little screwy. >Also, make sure Helvetica is on your system, since this is what it defaults to >for type. [stuff omitted] >I give the program a solid 7.8; screwy interface brought it down from a 9. I'm not sure, but I *think* Jim is reviewing Type Align and not Type Reunion here... :-) --Kathy -- ........................................................................... : Kathy Strong : "Try our Hubble-Rita: just one shot, : : (Clouds moving slowly) : and everything's blurry" : : clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu : --El Arroyo : :..........................................................................:
frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (11/17/90)
ATR hasn't worked on my system since the day I bought it. The system crashes
whenever I use On Cue and numerous apps as well (e.g., FreeHand).
Adobe's response is that it must be some other init's fault :-)
I'm hoping they'll eventually fix it :-(
(In the mean time FrameMaker does the same thing itself, so I'm content.)
--
Frank Kolnick,
Basis Computer Systems Inc.
UUCP: {allegra, linus}!utzoo!mnetor!frankjkain@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jeff Kain) (11/19/90)
ATR crashes on my system when running just Finder. Everything works
fine until you quit an application, where every application then
crashes with a system error.
I'm running System 6.0.5 on a MacPlus, 2.5MB RAM, and a Radius
Accelerator. Anybody have this problem also?
Jeff Kain
jkain@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
--
"Quoth the raven, `Eat my shorts!'"
-Edgar Allen Poe / Bart Simpsonderosa@motcid.UUCP (John DeRosa) (11/20/90)
clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kathy Strong) writes: >When using fonts with the "standard four" styles (normal, bold, italic, bold >italic), you should NOT have the screen fonts for all four styles installed. >Install ONLY the normal font. If you want to bold or italicize it, do so >through your application's equivalent of the style menu.............. Unfortunately, if you only have the normal screen font installed, then you will not be able to pick a "true" bold or italic variant for the font choosen. This is no big deal for the screen but you will be printing a "faked" italic not a true italic font as you have no way to choose the true italic font. On the imagewriter this is no big deal, but on the LaserWriter, I can see a decided difference. The same holds true for Bold and Bold-Italic -- = John DeRosa, Motorola, Inc, Cellular Infrastructure Group = = e-mail: ...uunet!motcid!derosaj, motcid!derosaj@uunet.uu.net = = Applelink: N1111 = =I do not hold by employer responsible for any information in this message =
derosa@motcid.UUCP (John DeRosa) (11/20/90)
gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) writes: > If you use Font Harmony on the typefaces, you automatically >get the styled bitmap with you style the normal typeface, and the >WYSIWYG font menu feature of Suitcase II and MacWrite II is still >available to you. I assume that you mena that the font menus show up in the actual font, instead of plain old Chicago. This is a very nice feature but Suitcase is extremely slow in building this menu. MenuFonts is extremely fast at this and will let you show "unreadable" fonts, like symbols, cairo, Zapf Dingbat, etc, in a default font, like Chicago. -- = John DeRosa, Motorola, Inc, Cellular Infrastructure Group = = e-mail: ...uunet!motcid!derosaj, motcid!derosaj@uunet.uu.net = = Applelink: N1111 = =I do not hold by employer responsible for any information in this message =
norman@d.cs.okstate.edu (Norman Graham) (11/20/90)
From article <5252@crystal9.UUCP>, by derosa@motcid.UUCP (John DeRosa): > clouds@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kathy Strong) writes: > >>When using fonts with the "standard four" styles (normal, bold, italic, bold >>italic), you should NOT have the screen fonts for all four styles installed. >>Install ONLY the normal font. If you want to bold or italicize it, do so >>through your application's equivalent of the style menu.............. > > Unfortunately, if you only have the normal screen font installed, then > you will not be able to pick a "true" bold or italic variant for the > font choosen. [...] Kathy's advice was qualified with something like 'If you're using ATM...'. If you have the configuration "ATM + book bitmap + book and italic outlines", then when you chose the italic face ATM will generate it from the italic outline (i.e. it _won't_ slant the book face). Thus you _do_ get true italic, bold, bold italic, etc. if you have the appropriate printer fonts installed. -- Norman Graham <norman@a.cs.okstate.edu> {cbosgd,rutgers}!okstate!norman The opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect the views of the state of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State University, OSU's Department of Computer Science, or of the writer himself.