larrym@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Larry Morandi) (12/01/90)
We are trying to convert our product manual to something that we can do
entirely on the Mac (previous version was done with custom macros and
ditroff on Unix). I've been looking mainly at PageMaker, Word, Nisus,
FullWrite, and a few other options, but they all seem to have major
problems with the format we used (and ideally would like to continue
using). The items that seem to give problems are:
1. Wide left margin that is used for headers of various sizes, which can
wrap. Something like what follows (of course it doesn't work very well
without fonts and sizes...)
^^^^
__________________________________________________________________________
The 88200 Cache The RP88 contains three cache and memory management units
and Memory (CMMUs). These units store recently used data or
Management instructions to speed up the execution of software.
Units
The RP88 uses two CMMMU chips for instruction storage,
and the third
... more text ...
The Cache The cache can send any instruction
... more text ...
^^^^
Of course, the left column should be a different font, and the one just
under a line is a major head and in a larger size than the next one.
(A good example of this format is the Symantec Utilities for the Mac
documentation for version 1.0, the violet & gray cover, they changed
the layout for version 2.0.)
I can lay this out in PageMaker, but I don't find any way to tie the
two text blocks together so that if I add more text to the right column,
the left column follows and stays lined up. I can sort of do this with
table stuff in Word, but that gets pretty kludgy. FullWrite sidebars
do this very well, but their sidebar location conflicts with their feature
of space-before a paragraph (like to get half line spaces between
paragraphs) since the sidebar is tied to the top of the paragraph before
the space is inserted (why didn't they implement space-after instead?).
2. I would prefer to number my pages with section and page, i.e., 7-23 or
B-3 in the Appendices (yes, you can do this in most any WP), but I want
that numbering to carry through to the Table of Contents and the Index.
Neither PageMaker, Word, Nisus, nor FullWrite seem to allow this.
3. I would like to include a List of Figures and a List of Tables after
the Table of Contents, as well as autonumber the Figure and Tables.
I can autonumber with FullWrite citations, but none of the other seem
to do this well, and wanting more than one "Contents" type construct
seems almost impossible in anthing else (unless you just do it by hand
after you know what page anything is on).
4. Ideally, the whole document (hundreds of pages, multiple chapters with
illustrations and tables, contents entries and indexing) should be
processed all at once to create the TOC and index so that we don't have
to do too much by hand. This is where FullWrite really falls apart.
It does most everything, but just can't handle complicated documents
longer than about 40 pages (maybe I should qualify that as "it won't
handle my document when it gets longer than about 40 pages"), and it
doesn't have any way of handling multiple files as a single document.
Also, it should ideally carry font, style and size through to the TOC
and index so that I don't have to do much hand tweaking after creating
them.
A comment or two about this quest. I did not design the format. It was
designed by a good technical writer with a good eye for graphic layout and
has been used successfully on several manuals produced by Tek. I haven't
had a chance to really examine Interleaf or FrameMaker or XPress or Ready
Set Go! yet.
Does anyone have enough experience with any of these programs (the ones I've
tried or the ones I haven't) to give me any clues to accomplish the above
tasks?
Thank you very much,
Larry Morandi
E-Mail: larrym@sail.labs.tek.com AppleLink: AdvTech
US Mail: Larry Morandi, Advance Technologies, Tektronix, Inc.
Box 500 MS 50-380, Beaverton OR 97077drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (12/03/90)
In article <8521@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM> larrym@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Larry Morandi) writes: > I haven't had a chance to really examine Interleaf > or FrameMaker or XPress or ReadySet Go! yet. I've spent a couple of hours annoying FrameMaker reps at trade shows and am expecting to get my own copy in a few days. I can't say for sure, but I'll bet it can handle your book format without too much trouble. Give them a call at (408) 433-3311. David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us (Avi Rappoport) (12/04/90)
I just did a manual in Word and was pretty unhappy. I had terrible problems with linked documents and found the graphics support too limited. However, it was _much_ better than ReadySetGo, where we had to line up the left margin headers by hand! We are looking hard at FrameMaker, and feel that it has all but one of our required features (we need conditional document generations for all the versions of our manual). Avi -- -- Help me justify my online bills: ask me EndNote questions, please! -- Avi Rappoport 2000 Hearst, Berkeley, CA 94709 nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us, 415-655-6666 Niles.Assoc on AppleLink fax: 415-649-8179
panders@alias.uucp (Pat Anderson) (12/05/90)
From postnews Tue Dec 4 11:06:02 1990 In article <8521@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, larrym@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Larry Morandi) writes: > We are trying to convert our product manual to something that we can do > entirely on the Mac (previous version was done with custom macros and > ditroff on Unix). I've been looking mainly at PageMaker, Word, Nisus, > FullWrite, and a few other options, but they all seem to have major > problems with the format we used (and ideally would like to continue > using). The items that seem to give problems are: >(...) > 1. Wide left margin that is used for headers of various sizes, which can > wrap. Something like what follows (of course it doesn't work very well > without fonts and sizes...) > (...) > Of course, the left column should be a different font, and the one just > under a line is a major head and in a larger size than the next one. > (A good example of this format is the Symantec Utilities for the Mac > documentation for version 1.0, the violet & gray cover, they changed > the layout for version 2.0.) >(...) > I can lay this out in PageMaker, but I don't find any way to tie the > two text blocks together so that if I add more text to the right column, > the left column follows and stays lined up. I can sort of do this with > table stuff in Word, but that gets pretty kludgy. FullWrite sidebars > > Does anyone have enough experience with any of these programs (the ones I've > tried or the ones I haven't) to give me any clues to accomplish the above > tasks? > Thank you very much, > Larry Morandi > > E-Mail: larrym@sail.labs.tek.com AppleLink: AdvTech There are better ways to create the two columns you want with microsoft word than by using tables. Here's how I do it: In document setup, set the margins. When creating a manual for 8.5 x 11" paper, I set top and bottom margins to 1 in, the left margin to 2.25 in., and the right to 1.25. This gives the body text specifications. For the body text, specify a paragraph border of a vertical hairline spaced 9 pts from the text. For the headers to appear in the left margin (which is set 1.25 inches wider than the right one), I use the following settings in the Format -> Paragraphs box: Indent the left margin 0.181 in. Open up the Position dialog box, and set Horizontal to Left, Relative to the Page. Set Vertical to In line, relative to the Margin. Set Distance from Text to 0.375 in, and the paragraph Width to 1.125 in. Of course, to avoid having to do this for every paragraph, I set up a style sheet. Once the first header style is created, lower level headers can be based on it. I haven't found any answer to the page numbering system you're looking for. It seems the only way around it is a lot of manual labour. ...pat. anderson documentation specialist Alias Research Inc.
frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (12/08/90)
In article <1990Dec4.161128.27561@alias.uucp> panders@alias.uucp (Pat Anderson) writes: >In article <8521@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, larrym@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Larry Morandi) writes: >> We are trying to convert our product manual to something that we can do >> entirely on the Mac (previous version was done with custom macros and >> ditroff on Unix). I've been looking mainly at PageMaker, Word, Nisus, >> FullWrite, and a few other options, but they all seem to have major >> problems with the format we used (and ideally would like to continue >> using). The items that seem to give problems are: >>(...) >> 1. Wide left margin that is used for headers of various sizes, which can >> wrap. Something like what follows (of course it doesn't work very well >> without fonts and sizes...) >There are better ways to create the two columns you want with microsoft >word than by using tables. Here's how I do it: > (... describes Word's 'position' feature...) I'm in the process of converting a 400 page manual, formatted pretty much as originally described, from Word to FrameMaker. Word makes the floating header surprisingly easy to do. On the other hand, it's very weak at handling large, multi-chapter documents. FrameMaker handles the headers (you can attach any sort of 'frame' at any point in the document -- a more general method than Word's), and excels at handling 'books' (FM terminology for any document consisting of multiple files). So far, its been a pleasure to use. The facilities for page, paragraph, figure, etc. numbering are very flexible. The documentation is excellent (and extensive -- about ten separate manuals). I recommend taking a look. (Btw, I've previously done several manuals with PageMaker -- not really its forte -- and more recently more manuals and a book with XPress. XPress is great, but lacks the book-handling capabilities; e.g., no indexing. Quark officially targets it for 'magazine articles', or at least that's what tech. support said when I asked when indexing would be added. Word is pretty good for short stuff, but bogs down -- in speed as well as ease of use -- beyond about 100 pages. I think FM may finally be the *one* package I need.) -- Frank Kolnick, Basis Computer Systems Inc. UUCP: {allegra, linus}!utzoo!mnetor!frank
MARK.HOLLINGSWORTH@f1.n354.z1.FIDONET.ORG (MARK HOLLINGSWORTH) (12/12/90)
From postnews Tue Dec 4 11:06:02 1990 In article <8521@tekgvs.LABS.TEK.COM>, larrym@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Larry Morandi) writes: > We are trying to convert our product manual to something that we can do > entirely on the Mac (previous version was done with custom macros and > ditroff on Unix). I've been looking mainly at PageMaker, Word, Nisus, > FullWrite, and a few other options, but they all seem to have major > problems with the format we used (and ideally would like to continue > using). The items that seem to give problems are: >(...) Fullwrite 1.5 should do everything you are trying to do.The old manual in FullWrite is terrible-the 1.5 version is quite a bit better.Plus FW is avaliable VERY cheap now. --> Lininger Utilities Distribution Site<-- -- MARK HOLLINGSWORTH via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!354!1!MARK.HOLLINGSWORTH INET: MARK.HOLLINGSWORTH@f1.n354.z1.FIDONET.ORG