johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu (12/27/90)
The following is posted as a warning to potential StuffIt Deluxe users. My e-mail to Aladdin has gone unanswered since Monday; holidays notwithstanding, I would hate to see this happen to anyone else. I experienced several similar problems while trying to install StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has been described on the net. All of the installation procedures were done exactly as described in the manual (read after the fact, of course). For anyone interested in reading on, I list the details below. First off, I ran the installer on a hard-disk volume that already had StuffIt Classic on it and ended up with multiply nested Preferences, Optimizers, etc.folders put in my hard disk. (Both StuffIt's install several files and folders in the System folder of your hard disk.) After spending hours deleting the many files and folders, I reinstalled using the expert option. This worked fine until I decided that I wanted to reinstall the Deluxe application only in order to edit the "signature" block in the personalization dialog box. This reinstall resulted in a variant of the undeletable "folder from hell". After rebooting I found a seemingly infinite set of nested 'Preferences' folders had been created in my System Folder. Attempts to delete them within the Finder resulted in a "Finder out of Memory" error which could not be resolved by assigning extra memory to the Finder. I found no alternative but to back up my hard disk and re-boot. After reinitializing with Apple HD SC Setup, I reconstructed my System, excluding all inits and cdevs with the exception of those from my System Tools 6.0.5 diskettes. I then attempted to install Deluxe again, thinking that the common factor in the previous problems was the prior existence of the StuffIt-installed folders in the System Folder. Once again, the installation proceeded through 30 of 31 files/folders and then cycled back to file/folder "5 of 31", and began writing duplicate copies of several files to my hard disk. The installer reached 30 of 31 again, and then went back to 5 of 31, etc. This time the cancel button worked. Upon returning to the Finder I found that the Installer had completely screwed up: only the Help and Tranlators Folders could be found at the System Folder level, and some of the other StuffIt-installed folders (such as the Optimizers folder) were found inside the Help folder. Although I was once again able to install Deluxe using the "expert" option in the installer script, this time I deleted all the StuffIt Deluxe files and folders and reinstalled StuffIt 1.5.1. If the StuffIt Deluxe Installer is an example of the reliability of Deluxe archives, I don't think I can afford the "luxury". If Aladdin comes up with a satisfactory answer and fix, I would be happy to be the first one to flame this posting; I was genuinely looking forward to using some of the advanced features of StuffIt Deluxe. Until then, I can only say "beware". -- Bill (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu) -- 38 Chambers St.; Newark, DE 19711; (302)368-1949
Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) (12/27/90)
In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: > I experienced several similar problems while trying to install > StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These > occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) > The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has > been described on the net. All of the installation procedures were > done exactly as described in the manual (read after the fact, of > course). ...(skipping the exact details of the pain encountered)... Yes indeed. My theory is that the expert option of the installer simply gets confused about what it is doing. I ended up installing everything and then deleting the few files I didn't want. I didn't have Stuffit Classic on the drive though (I assume you mean the new 1.6 version, not the earlier 1.5.1 version). That was several months ago. Since I got the beast installed I've had no problems at all with any of the features I've tried. My advice is to consider it two different products, (1) the installer, which is dangerous and quite willing to cause major headaches, and (2) StuffIt Deluxe, which works perfectly fine (albeit a little slow, at least in my version (1.0)). I'd much rather use StuffIt Deluxe than StuffIt, due to all the neat new features. If you want to bypass the installer, and you have either version 1.6 or StuffIt Deluxe installed already, you can do it by having StuffIt open the installer file. For StuffIt 1.6, press the Option key while selecting "Open archive..." from the menu. Then you'll see all files on the disk, including the installer program. Open the installer, and you'll be able to unstuff any files you want, assuming you know where they should go. I don't have StuffIt Deluxe here at work, but I think the only difference is that it's dialog for opening an archive includes a pop-up menu which you can use to select all files. So you do that instead of pressing the option key. It might be true that this same trick would work using StuffIt 1.5.1 to open the archive file, but I don't have version 1.5.1 around anymore to try it. I imagine the new installer files use the newer format for stuffit archives though, so this probably won't work. > ... and reinstalled StuffIt 1.5.1. If the StuffIt > Deluxe Installer is an example of the reliability of Deluxe > archives, I don't think I can afford the "luxury". Basically all I wanted to say here is that the installer program is not an indication of the reliability of StuffIt Deluxe itself. If you have the nerve to try the installer again, I expect you won't regret using StuffIt Deluxe instead of version 1.5.1 (you may regret running the installer again, of course...). Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu
johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu (12/27/90)
In article <QRP^Y!*@rpi.edu>, Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) writes... >In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: >> The following is posted as a warning ... e-mail to Aladdin has gone >> unanswered ... I would hate to see this happen to someone else. >> I experienced several similar problems while trying to install >> StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. >> The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >> been described on the net. [Details deleted -- here is a 'work-around' based on Mr. Drosehn's posting.] >Yes indeed. My theory is that the expert option of the installer simply >gets confused about what it is doing. I ended up installing everything >and then deleting the few files I didn't want. I didn't have Stuffit >Classic on the drive though (I assume you mean the new 1.6 version, not >the earlier 1.5.1 version). Actually, the greater problem was with the "standard" install option, which is what was so shocking -- this is supposed to be the recommended method. However, I ran into 'folders from hell' with the expert install as well. The problem seems to occur when the installer script encounters a folder with the same name as the one that it is trying to install. The script very 'politely' presents the user with a dialog that says something like "found XYZ file/folder" with 'replace', 'replace all', 'skip', and 'cancel'. This implies that everything is hunky-dory ... but the script then goes on to wreak havoc. >That was several months ago. Since I got the beast installed I've had no >problems at all with any of the features I've tried. My advice is to >consider it two different products, (1) the installer, which is dangerous >and quite willing to cause major headaches, and (2) StuffIt Deluxe, which >works perfectly fine (albeit a little slow, at least in my version (1.0)). >I'd much rather use StuffIt Deluxe than StuffIt, due to all the neat new >features. Agreed on both points. But I'd hate to have a new user run into one of the "major headaches" with a product of mine. It took me 2 hours to back up, reinitialize, and restore -- and I had empty formatted removeable cartridges on hand. I could easily see someone panicking and losing data. >If you want to bypass the installer, and you have either version 1.6 or >StuffIt Deluxe installed already, you can do it by having StuffIt open the >installer file. For StuffIt 1.6, press the Option key while selecting >"Open archive..." from the menu. Then you'll see all files on the disk, >including the installer program. Open the installer, and you'll be able >to unstuff any files you want, assuming you know where they should go. > Ironically, one of the neat new features is scripting -- the sort of thing that allows one to create custom installer scripts. I *love* applications that support scripting -- they are a pseudo-hacker's delight. I wouldn't have the nerve to write one that tries to several folders in an unknown user's System Folder. The 'Drosehn' method let me install what I wanted; and it was faster than the scripted installation to boot. >Basically all I wanted to say here is that the installer program is not an >indication of the reliability of StuffIt Deluxe itself. If you have the >nerve to try the installer again, I expect you won't regret using StuffIt >Deluxe instead of version 1.5.1 (you may regret running the installer >again, of course...). >Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu Thanks to your suggestion, I am giving StuffIt a reprieve. It remains to be seen if a product used primarily for shrinking file sizes makes sense if it takes up 1.5 meg on your hard disk. It *does* have the features though. I will wait until I see version 2.0 before passing judgement. -- Bill (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu)
johnston@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (johnston) (12/27/90)
Reply-To: johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu
The following is posted as a warning to potential StuffIt Deluxe
users. My e-mail to Aladdin has gone unanswered since Monday;
holidays notwithstanding, I would hate to see this happen to
anyone else.
I experienced several similar problems while trying to install
StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These
occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.)
The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has
been described on the net. All of the installation procedures were
done exactly as described in the manual (read after the fact, of
course).
For anyone interested in reading on, I list the details below.
First off, I ran the installer on a hard-disk volume that already had
StuffIt Classic on it and ended up with multiply nested Preferences,
Optimizers, etc.folders put in my hard disk. (Both StuffIt's install
several files and folders in the System folder of your hard disk.)
After spending hours deleting the many files and folders, I reinstalled
using the expert option. This worked fine until I decided that I wanted
to reinstall the Deluxe application only in order to edit the "signature"
block in the personalization dialog box.
This reinstall resulted in a variant of the undeletable "folder from hell".
After rebooting I found a seemingly infinite set of nested 'Preferences'
folders had been created in my System Folder. Attempts to delete them
within the Finder resulted in a "Finder out of Memory" error which
could not be resolved by assigning extra memory to the Finder.
I found no alternative but to back up my hard disk and re-boot. After
reinitializing with Apple HD SC Setup, I reconstructed my System,
excluding all inits and cdevs with the exception of those from my System
Tools 6.0.5 diskettes. I then attempted to install Deluxe again,
thinking that the common factor in the previous problems was the prior
existence of the StuffIt-installed folders in the System Folder.
Once again, the installation proceeded through 30 of 31 files/folders
and then cycled back to file/folder "5 of 31", and began writing
duplicate copies of several files to my hard disk. The installer
reached 30 of 31 again, and then went back to 5 of 31, etc.
This time the cancel button worked. Upon returning to the Finder
I found that the Installer had completely screwed up: only the
Help and Tranlators Folders could be found at the System Folder
level, and some of the other StuffIt-installed folders (such as
the Optimizers folder) were found inside the Help folder.
Although I was once again able to install Deluxe using the "expert"
option in the installer script, this time I deleted all the StuffIt
Deluxe files and folders and reinstalled StuffIt 1.5.1. If the
StuffIt Deluxe Installer is an example of the reliability of Deluxe
archives, I don't think I can afford the "luxury".
If Aladdin comes up with a satisfactory answer and fix, I would be
happy to be the first one to flame this posting; I was genuinely
looking forward to using some of the advanced features of StuffIt
Deluxe.
Until then, I can only say "beware".
-- Bill (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu)
-- 38 Chambers St.; Newark, DE 19711; (302)368-1949
+ Organization: Univ. of Delaware, CCM
--
johnston - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!johnston
INTERNET: johnston@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGrcbamhl@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Marc Heijligers) (12/27/90)
The reliability of Stuffit indeed is not very well. On my Mac Plus I end up with bombs a lot (no INITs, installation according to manual; I even gave it more memory in MultiFinder). I went back to my Stuffit 1.5.1. I also think that Stuffit has become much too large. I believe this thing is meant to compress and decompress... Well, I prefer Compacter now (it is faster, and has a higher compression rate). The user interface is not so good though.. Marc
Garance.Drosehn@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Garance Drosehn) (12/27/90)
Reply-To: Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: > I experienced several similar problems while trying to install > StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These > occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) > The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has > been described on the net. All of the installation procedures were > done exactly as described in the manual (read after the fact, of > course). ...(skipping the exact details of the pain encountered)... Yes indeed. My theory is that the expert option of the installer simply gets confused about what it is doing. I ended up installing everything and then deleting the few files I didn't want. I didn't have Stuffit Classic on the drive though (I assume you mean the new 1.6 version, not the earlier 1.5.1 version). That was several months ago. Since I got the beast installed I've had no problems at all with any of the features I've tried. My advice is to consider it two different products, (1) the installer, which is dangerous and quite willing to cause major headaches, and (2) StuffIt Deluxe, which works perfectly fine (albeit a little slow, at least in my version (1.0)). I'd much rather use StuffIt Deluxe than StuffIt, due to all the neat new features. If you want to bypass the installer, and you have either version 1.6 or StuffIt Deluxe installed already, you can do it by having StuffIt open the installer file. For StuffIt 1.6, press the Option key while selecting "Open archive..." from the menu. Then you'll see all files on the disk, including the installer program. Open the installer, and you'll be able to unstuff any files you want, assuming you know where they should go. I don't have StuffIt Deluxe here at work, but I think the only difference is that it's dialog for opening an archive includes a pop-up menu which you can use to select all files. So you do that instead of pressing the option key. It might be true that this same trick would work using StuffIt 1.5.1 to open the archive file, but I don't have version 1.5.1 around anymore to try it. I imagine the new installer files use the newer format for stuffit archives though, so this probably won't work. > ... and reinstalled StuffIt 1.5.1. If the StuffIt > Deluxe Installer is an example of the reliability of Deluxe > archives, I don't think I can afford the "luxury". Basically all I wanted to say here is that the installer program is not an indication of the reliability of StuffIt Deluxe itself. If you have the nerve to try the installer again, I expect you won't regret using StuffIt Deluxe instead of version 1.5.1 (you may regret running the installer again, of course...). Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu + Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. -- Garance Drosehn - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Garance.Drosehn INTERNET: Garance.Drosehn@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
johnston@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (johnston) (12/27/90)
Reply-To: johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu In article <QRP^Y!*@rpi.edu>, Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) writes... >In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: >> The following is posted as a warning ... e-mail to Aladdin has gone >> unanswered ... I would hate to see this happen to someone else. >> I experienced several similar problems while trying to install >> StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. >> The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >> been described on the net. [Details deleted -- here is a 'work-around' based on Mr. Drosehn's posting.] >Yes indeed. My theory is that the expert option of the installer simply >gets confused about what it is doing. I ended up installing everything >and then deleting the few files I didn't want. I didn't have Stuffit >Classic on the drive though (I assume you mean the new 1.6 version, not >the earlier 1.5.1 version). Actually, the greater problem was with the "standard" install option, which is what was so shocking -- this is supposed to be the recommended method. However, I ran into 'folders from hell' with the expert install as well. The problem seems to occur when the installer script encounters a folder with the same name as the one that it is trying to install. The script very 'politely' presents the user with a dialog that says something like "found XYZ file/folder" with 'replace', 'replace all', 'skip', and 'cancel'. This implies that everything is hunky-dory ... but the script then goes on to wreak havoc. >That was several months ago. Since I got the beast installed I've had no >problems at all with any of the features I've tried. My advice is to >consider it two different products, (1) the installer, which is dangerous >and quite willing to cause major headaches, and (2) StuffIt Deluxe, which >works perfectly fine (albeit a little slow, at least in my version (1.0)). >I'd much rather use StuffIt Deluxe than StuffIt, due to all the neat new >features. Agreed on both points. But I'd hate to have a new user run into one of the "major headaches" with a product of mine. It took me 2 hours to back up, reinitialize, and restore -- and I had empty formatted removeable cartridges on hand. I could easily see someone panicking and losing data. >If you want to bypass the installer, and you have either version 1.6 or >StuffIt Deluxe installed already, you can do it by having StuffIt open the >installer file. For StuffIt 1.6, press the Option key while selecting >"Open archive..." from the menu. Then you'll see all files on the disk, >including the installer program. Open the installer, and you'll be able >to unstuff any files you want, assuming you know where they should go. > Ironically, one of the neat new features is scripting -- the sort of thing that allows one to create custom installer scripts. I *love* applications that support scripting -- they are a pseudo-hacker's delight. I wouldn't have the nerve to write one that tries to several folders in an unknown user's System Folder. The 'Drosehn' method let me install what I wanted; and it was faster than the scripted installation to boot. >Basically all I wanted to say here is that the installer program is not an >indication of the reliability of StuffIt Deluxe itself. If you have the >nerve to try the installer again, I expect you won't regret using StuffIt >Deluxe instead of version 1.5.1 (you may regret running the installer >again, of course...). >Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu Thanks to your suggestion, I am giving StuffIt a reprieve. It remains to be seen if a product used primarily for shrinking file sizes makes sense if it takes up 1.5 meg on your hard disk. It *does* have the features though. I will wait until I see version 2.0 before passing judgement. -- Bill (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu) + Organization: Univ. of Delaware, CCM -- johnston - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!johnston INTERNET: johnston@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Marc.Heijligers@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Marc Heijligers) (12/28/90)
From: rcbamhl@rwa.urc.tue.nl
Reply-To: rcbamhl@urc.tue.nl
The reliability of Stuffit indeed is not very well. On my Mac Plus I end up
with bombs a lot (no INITs, installation according to manual; I even gave it
more memory in MultiFinder). I went back to my Stuffit 1.5.1.
I also think that Stuffit has become much too large. I believe this thing is
meant to compress and decompress... Well, I prefer Compacter now (it is faster,
and has a higher compression rate). The user interface is not so good though..
Marc
--
Marc Heijligers - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Marc.Heijligers
INTERNET: Marc.Heijligers@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGweave@brahms.udel.edu (Ken Weaverling) (12/28/90)
In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: > >I experienced several similar problems while trying to install >StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These >occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) >The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >been described on the net. This brings back memories! Yup, I had similar problems. The problem seemed to center around me not having enough space on my hard drive for the install. It seems to need some scratch working space or something, butthe end result was nested folders and duplicated files in weird places, like the help files in the preferences folder, etc.... It never warned me that I didn't have enough disk space THAT time. So, I tried to install only a portion of it using Expert Install, then it informed me that I didn't have enough space. I ended up getting it installed, but only after freeing up about 5 megs on my hard drive. (This is all from memory from months ago, it is not very accurate I'm sure) -- >>>---> Ken Weaverling >>>----> weave@brahms.udel.edu
leonardr@svc.portal.com (Leonard Rosenthol) (12/28/90)
In article <rcbamhl.662290131@rwa.urc.tue.nl>, rcbamhl@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Marc Heijligers) writes: > I also think that Stuffit has become much too large. I believe this thing is > meant to compress and decompress... Well, I prefer Compacter now (it is faster, > and has a higher compression rate). The user interface is not so good though.. > I guess this is the general crux of the matter, and that is the purpose of Stuffit Deluxe, especially WRT Compactor & Disk Doubler. Given its feature set, the original Stuffit was primarily used simply for the compression and decompression of files for transmission/distribution, and for the purpose it was well suited - small size, & reasonably fast (we didn't know better back then ;-). In the same vein, Stuffit Classic continues by providing new compression methods, and improved speed & user interface (and some other stuff), and Compactor enters as the new player on the block in this arena. However Disk Doubler and Stuffit Deluxe, especially as commercial products should not be grouped into the same catagory as they are NOT designed for the same primary usage as the original Stuffit - they serve a different need. Disk Doubler is designed and marketed as a product which, by keeping all of your files compressed on your disk, will 'double' your disk space. It also employes a mechanism which makes working with the compressed documents quite transparent. This concept is quite good, and many users of DD are happy and content, BUT DD is not the kind of product that you would use for compressing documents for transmission or archival storage..Its limited 'archival' capabilities and definate lack of 'viewing archives' make it inappropriate for that task. Stuffit Deluxe was designed primarily as an 'Data Storage & Archival' application, and as such the features that it provides (over Stuffit and Stuffit Classic) are those which aid that goal. Things such as scripting, multiple archives, Copy/Move, Viewers, etc. make it perfect for use by those who need to keep archival copies of things, or just like to keep seldom used things compressed to save space (I do this A LOT!). True to its heritage, it also provides all of the capabilities for dealing with transmission of archives, both Mac and other (with Externals you get DeArc, UnZip, and soon UUDecode, MacBinary, and more as they are written). Enough rambling...The bottom line is that if all you want is a program that you can compress/decompress files for transmission, then stick with Stuffit Classic or Compactor - but if you plan to use compression to your advantage then you would best served by Stuffit Deluxe... Leonard Rosenthol Disclaimer: This is my own PERSONAL opinion, and not that of Software Ventures or of Aladdin. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- + Leonard Rosenthol | Internet: leonardr@sv.portal.com + + Software Ventures | GEnie: MACgician + + MicroPhone II Development Team | AOL: MACgician1 + ----------------------------------------------------------------------
daven@svc.portal.com (12/28/90)
In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: >The following is posted as a warning to potential StuffIt Deluxe >users. My e-mail to Aladdin has gone unanswered since Monday; >holidays notwithstanding, I would hate to see this happen to >anyone else. > >I experienced several similar problems while trying to install >StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These >occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) >The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >been described on the net. All of the installation procedures were >done exactly as described in the manual (read after the fact, of >course). [Much description of problem deleted] >If Aladdin comes up with a satisfactory answer and fix, I would be >happy to be the first one to flame this posting; I was genuinely >looking forward to using some of the advanced features of StuffIt >Deluxe. > >Until then, I can only say "beware". I've had the opportunity to use the StuffIt Installers many times and I've never seen a problem like this. The Installers have always been able to find, and remove the old Preferences' files just fine. Never did they create a "folder from hell." When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. In summary my experience with StuffIt Deluxe and it's Installers has been very positive. I would highly recommend them to anyone. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman | daven@svc.portal.com | AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. | AOL: MicroPhone | CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 | WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us | (415) 644-3232
Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) (12/28/90)
In article <40029@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: > In article <QRP^Y!*@rpi.edu>, Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) writes... > >Yes indeed. My theory is that the expert option of the installer simply > >gets confused about what it is doing. I ended up installing everything > >and then deleting the few files I didn't want. I didn't have Stuffit > >Classic on the drive though (I assume you mean the new 1.6 version, not > >the earlier 1.5.1 version). > > Actually, the greater problem was with the "standard" install option, which > is what was so shocking -- this is supposed to be the recommended method. > However, I ran into 'folders from hell' with the expert install as well. Hmm. What I said was what I meant, for my case at least. I tried to use the expert install option first (two times, selecting different pieces), and ran into different problems each time. I gave up on that and did the standard install and everything worked fine. It may be that the scripts I used (back in July or August) were different than the scripts you have in your current version. While I already had a "Preferences" folder from other applications, for instance, I did not get any dialog about it finding the folder. It did put it's own file in that folder too (when I used the standard option). Hopefully the scripts in version 2.0 will be better behaved! Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu
johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu (12/28/90)
In article <1990Dec27.195645.22056@svc.portal.com>, daven@svc.portal.com writes... >In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: >>The following is posted as a warning ... e-mail to Aladdin has gone >>unanswered since Monday ... I would hate to see this happen to anyone else. >>The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >>been described on the net. [Much description of problem deleted] > >I've had the opportunity to use the StuffIt Installers many times >and I've never seen a problem like this. I have received "me too" e-mail from several people who experienced exactly the same problem. The disturbing thing is that one of them reported the problem to Aladdin in August, and evidentally they are still shipping the same package. My StuffIt Deluxe Installer included a copy of *** DISINFECTANT 1.8 ***, for pete's sake. Gee thanks! What a way to let a new buyer know that the shrink-wrapped package has be gathering dust for a while, without improvements! The StuffIt Deluxe Installer has a "Get Info" creation date of July 6, 1990. Another e-mail response suggested that the problem had been experienced by "only 1% of users". Well excuse my ignorance, but if ANY user is forced to reinitialize a hard-disk in order to use a UTILITY program, that's too many. If I bought the package on July 7, and they fixed the problem straight away, no problem. I have tested plenty of new or beta software and taken my lumps when they crashed. But this product has been out for six months; any problem that should have been fixed by now. >When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad >sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens >to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. No, I didn't. I run a hard disk utility regularly and have never had the slightest indication of a 'bad sector' problem. -- Bill (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu)
Ken.Weaverling@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Ken Weaverling) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: weave@brahms.udel.edu In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: > >I experienced several similar problems while trying to install >StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These >occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) >The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >been described on the net. This brings back memories! Yup, I had similar problems. The problem seemed to center around me not having enough space on my hard drive for the install. It seems to need some scratch working space or something, butthe end result was nested folders and duplicated files in weird places, like the help files in the preferences folder, etc.... It never warned me that I didn't have enough disk space THAT time. So, I tried to install only a portion of it using Expert Install, then it informed me that I didn't have enough space. I ended up getting it installed, but only after freeing up about 5 megs on my hard drive. (This is all from memory from months ago, it is not very accurate I'm sure) -- >>>---> Ken Weaverling >>>----> weave@brahms.udel.edu + Organization: University of Delaware -- Ken Weaverling - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Ken.Weaverling INTERNET: Ken.Weaverling@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Leonard.Rosenthol@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Leonard Rosenthol) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: leonardr@svc.portal.com In article <rcbamhl.662290131@rwa.urc.tue.nl>, rcbamhl@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Marc Heijligers) writes: > I also think that Stuffit has become much too large. I believe this thing is > meant to compress and decompress... Well, I prefer Compacter now (it is faster, > and has a higher compression rate). The user interface is not so good though.. > I guess this is the general crux of the matter, and that is the purpose of Stuffit Deluxe, especially WRT Compactor & Disk Doubler. Given its feature set, the original Stuffit was primarily used simply for the compression and decompression of files for transmission/distribution, and for the purpose it was well suited - small size, & reasonably fast (we didn't know better back then ;-). In the same vein, Stuffit Classic continues by providing new compression methods, and improved speed & user interface (and some other stuff), and Compactor enters as the new player on the block in this arena. However Disk Doubler and Stuffit Deluxe, especially as commercial products should not be grouped into the same catagory as they are NOT designed for the same primary usage as the original Stuffit - they serve a different need. Disk Doubler is designed and marketed as a product which, by keeping all of your files compressed on your disk, will 'double' your disk space. It also employes a mechanism which makes working with the compressed documents quite transparent. This concept is quite good, and many users of DD are happy and content, BUT DD is not the kind of product that you would use for compressing documents for transmission or archival storage..Its limited 'archival' capabilities and definate lack of 'viewing archives' make it inappropriate for that task. Stuffit Deluxe was designed primarily as an 'Data Storage & Archival' application, and as such the features that it provides (over Stuffit and Stuffit Classic) are those which aid that goal. Things such as scripting, multiple archives, Copy/Move, Viewers, etc. make it perfect for use by those who need to keep archival copies of things, or just like to keep seldom used things compressed to save space (I do this A LOT!). True to its heritage, it also provides all of the capabilities for dealing with transmission of archives, both Mac and other (with Externals you get DeArc, UnZip, and soon UUDecode, MacBinary, and more as they are written). Enough rambling...The bottom line is that if all you want is a program that you can compress/decompress files for transmission, then stick with Stuffit Classic or Compactor - but if you plan to use compression to your advantage then you would best served by Stuffit Deluxe... Leonard Rosenthol Disclaimer: This is my own PERSONAL opinion, and not that of Software Ventures or of Aladdin. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- + Leonard Rosenthol I Internet: leonardr@sv.portal.com + + Software Ventures I GEnie: MACgician + + MicroPhone II Development Team I AOL: MACgician1 + ---------------------------------------------------------------------- + Organization: Software Ventures Corporation. -- Leonard Rosenthol - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Leonard.Rosenthol INTERNET: Leonard.Rosenthol@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) (12/28/90)
In article <1990Dec27.195645.22056@svc.portal.com> daven@svc.portal.com writes: > When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad > sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens > to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. This seems absurd to me. I used my disk day in and day out. I've installed tons of applications on it. The *only* time I have ever (in the last 3 years) had a "folder from hell" is when I used the stuffit installer. I used the installer 3 times, the first time I got dismal results, the second time I got disasterous results, the third time it worked. That's Two problem installs for Stuffit Deluxe, verses Zero problem installs for every other installer I've ever used. Now maybe it's my hard disk that's at fault, but it's one amazing bit of coincidence that stuffit hit a hard disk problem twice while nothing else I've done has hit anything even remotely similar. Anything that runs into a disk problem should stop or do some sanity checking. It should not go on and fill up 5 megabytes of a hard disk with duplicate copies of files. It should not create a many hundreds of folders within folders. If it does those things, then the program needs to be fixed whether or not the initial cause is a hard drive with a few bad sectors. The amazing coincidence factor grows considerably when you stop to think that there are several different people here, each of which have had rather painful hassles with the installer, and none of them have complained about anyone elses installer. We're all on different machines with different hard disks, can it be that we all have bad disks and that for all of us the Stuffit installer just happened to be the innocent, unfortunate application that tripped over the problem disk? Mmmmmmmm, not very likely... > In summary my experience with StuffIt Deluxe and it's Installers > has been very positive. I would highly recommend them to anyone. I'm sure you'd change that tune if you ever find yourself having to reformat your hard drive after running one of these installers. It seems that only a few people are hit by any problems with the installer, but the ones who are hit are *really* nailed by it. I could believe that it might be the combination of the Stuffit installer and some init(s) we all are running, and the real bug could be in one of those inits and not the installer itself. But the chances that this is a hardware error on our disks is much too implausible. I would say, however, that my experience with Stuffit Deluxe itself has been very positive. Everything I've used has worked as good or better than I expected (maybe not *faster* then I expected, but the newer version is supposed to improve the speed quite a bit...). I'm looking forward to the new version, although I must admit I'm rather uneasy about running the installer unless Aladdin says that they've found and fixed some problems in it. Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY. USA
daven@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (daven) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: daven@svc.portal.com In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: >The following is posted as a warning to potential StuffIt Deluxe >users. My e-mail to Aladdin has gone unanswered since Monday; >holidays notwithstanding, I would hate to see this happen to >anyone else. > >I experienced several similar problems while trying to install >StuffIt Deluxe on my 5 meg SE/30,40 running System 6.0.5. (These >occurred both with and without a conservative set of inits and cdevs.) >The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >been described on the net. All of the installation procedures were >done exactly as described in the manual (read after the fact, of >course). [Much description of problem deleted] >If Aladdin comes up with a satisfactory answer and fix, I would be >happy to be the first one to flame this posting; I was genuinely >looking forward to using some of the advanced features of StuffIt >Deluxe. > >Until then, I can only say "beware". I've had the opportunity to use the StuffIt Installers many times and I've never seen a problem like this. The Installers have always been able to find, and remove the old Preferences' files just fine. Never did they create a "folder from hell." When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. In summary my experience with StuffIt Deluxe and it's Installers has been very positive. I would highly recommend them to anyone. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman I daven@svc.portal.com I AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. I AOL: MicroPhone I CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 I WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us I (415) 644-3232 + Organization: Software Ventures -- daven - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!daven INTERNET: daven@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
johnston@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (johnston) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu In article <1990Dec27.195645.22056@svc.portal.com>, daven@svc.portal.com writes... >In article <40020@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu writes: >>The following is posted as a warning ... e-mail to Aladdin has gone >>unanswered since Monday ... I would hate to see this happen to anyone else. >>The result was similar to the "Folder from Hell" problem that has >>been described on the net. [Much description of problem deleted] > >I've had the opportunity to use the StuffIt Installers many times >and I've never seen a problem like this. I have received "me too" e-mail from several people who experienced exactly the same problem. The disturbing thing is that one of them reported the problem to Aladdin in August, and evidentally they are still shipping the same package. My StuffIt Deluxe Installer included a copy of *** DISINFECTANT 1.8 ***, for pete's sake. Gee thanks! What a way to let a new buyer know that the shrink-wrapped package has be gathering dust for a while, without improvements! The StuffIt Deluxe Installer has a "Get Info" creation date of July 6, 1990. Another e-mail response suggested that the problem had been experienced by "only 1% of users". Well excuse my ignorance, but if ANY user is forced to reinitialize a hard-disk in order to use a UTILITY program, that's too many. If I bought the package on July 7, and they fixed the problem straight away, no problem. I have tested plenty of new or beta software and taken my lumps when they crashed. But this product has been out for six months; any problem that should have been fixed by now. >When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad >sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens >to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. No, I didn't. I run a hard disk utility regularly and have never had the slightest indication of a 'bad sector' problem. -- Bill (johnston@oscar.ccm.udel.edu) + Organization: Univ. of Delaware, CCM -- johnston - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!johnston INTERNET: johnston@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Garance.Drosehn@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Garance Drosehn) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu In article <1990Dec27.195645.22056@svc.portal.com> daven@svc.portal.com writes: > When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad > sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens > to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. This seems absurd to me. I used my disk day in and day out. I've installed tons of applications on it. The *only* time I have ever (in the last 3 years) had a "folder from hell" is when I used the stuffit installer. I used the installer 3 times, the first time I got dismal results, the second time I got disasterous results, the third time it worked. That's Two problem installs for Stuffit Deluxe, verses Zero problem installs for every other installer I've ever used. Now maybe it's my hard disk that's at fault, but it's one amazing bit of coincidence that stuffit hit a hard disk problem twice while nothing else I've done has hit anything even remotely similar. Anything that runs into a disk problem should stop or do some sanity checking. It should not go on and fill up 5 megabytes of a hard disk with duplicate copies of files. It should not create a many hundreds of folders within folders. If it does those things, then the program needs to be fixed whether or not the initial cause is a hard drive with a few bad sectors. The amazing coincidence factor grows considerably when you stop to think that there are several different people here, each of which have had rather painful hassles with the installer, and none of them have complained about anyone elses installer. We're all on different machines with different hard disks, can it be that we all have bad disks and that for all of us the Stuffit installer just happened to be the innocent, unfortunate application that tripped over the problem disk? Mmmmmmmm, not very likely... > In summary my experience with StuffIt Deluxe and it's Installers > has been very positive. I would highly recommend them to anyone. I'm sure you'd change that tune if you ever find yourself having to reformat your hard drive after running one of these installers. It seems that only a few people are hit by any problems with the installer, but the ones who are hit are *really* nailed by it. I could believe that it might be the combination of the Stuffit installer and some init(s) we all are running, and the real bug could be in one of those inits and not the installer itself. But the chances that this is a hardware error on our disks is much too implausible. I would say, however, that my experience with Stuffit Deluxe itself has been very positive. Everything I've used has worked as good or better than I expected (maybe not *faster* then I expected, but the newer version is supposed to improve the speed quite a bit...). I'm looking forward to the new version, although I must admit I'm rather uneasy about running the installer unless Aladdin says that they've found and fixed some problems in it. Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY. USA + Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. -- Garance Drosehn - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Garance.Drosehn INTERNET: Garance.Drosehn@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) (12/29/90)
The following comment, if regarded as advice, is worth what you pay for it.
No warranties, expressed or implied.
I too got nailed by the Stuffit Deluxe installer. (And, no, my disk diag-
nostics do not show a bad sector or any such thing). The Standard installer
went from item 31 to item 5, recursively re-installing everything inside its
own folders.
(BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL NAMES AS
"HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE
HELP"??)
I did that twice, with the same results. Finally I tried re-installing my
System software, then installing Stuffit. It worked. Corrupted system?
Luck? The phase of Mercury? I dunno, but I got Stuffit installed... and
my regard for Aladdin took a drop.
All in all, I miss the old days when "install" meant "click and drag."
--
- Rich Holmes rich@suhep.bitnet
Syracuse U. Physics Dept. rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu
or if you must: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu
"The United States -- Making the World Safe For Monarchy!"Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) (12/29/90)
In article <`|Q^0$+@rpi.edu> I eloquently ripped into: > daven@svc.portal.com for writing: > > When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad > > sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens > > to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. > with me saying things like: > This seems absurd to me. I used my disk day in and day out. I've > installed tons of applications on it. As noted in another article here, his guess wasn't as far off as I expected. I got a reply from Aladdin too (via America Online), and it turns out that the installer will sometimes trip over minor errors on the floppy disk. So it's not the hard disk as daven suggested, but daven was generally on the right track. To add a few bits to what was said in the article on "Aladdin's reply" from johnston@oscar, my message says it was errors on the floppy (johnston wasn't quite certain if it was the floppy or the hard disk) which seemed to be the problem. The message I got from Aladdin also said they took two different steps to address this. First they reorganized the code to work around the situation they believe is causing the problem. Secondly they added some sanity checking so the installer keeps track of how many files and folders it has installed, and if that number goes over the maximum it expects to install then the installer will stop. So even if they haven't found the real problem, we shouldn't see any more cases of the "infinite install". This is all welcome news to me. Sorry for getting so worked up in the previous posting, but whenever I recollect the headaches I had with the installer in August I get upset all over again... Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu
kenh@hscfsas1.harvard.edu (Ken Hancock) (12/29/90)
In article <1990Dec28.164601.10642@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: >(BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL NAMES AS >"HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE >HELP"??) Because that's the way it's supposed to be. When System 7.0 comes out, the folder manager will take care of nice things like this. All help files go in a HELP folder, all preferences files in a PREFERENCES folder, etc. What's the use of putting them in folders if all they do is make a folder called "Application XYZ Help" ? Then you just get 500 folders all called "Something Help" instead of 500 files called "Something help". Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@hscfsas1.harvard.edu Isle Systems | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, Macintosh Consulting | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?
starta@tosh.UUCP (John Starta) (12/29/90)
rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: > (BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL NAMES AS > "HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE > HELP"??) Generic folder names were used so that all of Aladdin's products can share similar resources (the Help files in this example, but the same is true of the Optimizers and so on) and therefore save disk space and System Folder landscape. Classic, Deluxe, Shortcut, Magic Menu, the QuicKeys 2 Extensions and the MicroPhone II XCMDs all take advantage of this. You are welcome to move things around, but why waste disk space with duplicate files just because you don't like the name of the folders? John -- John A. Starta Internet: tosh!starta@asuvax.eas.asu.edu Software Visionary UUCP: ncar!noao!asuvax!tosh!starta AOL: AFA John; CompuServe: 71520,3556
Rich.Holmes@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rich Holmes) (12/29/90)
Reply-To: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu
The following comment, if regarded as advice, is worth what you pay for it.
No warranties, expressed or implied.
I too got nailed by the Stuffit Deluxe installer. (And, no, my disk diag-
nostics do not show a bad sector or any such thing). The Standard installer
went from item 31 to item 5, recursively re-installing everything inside its
own folders.
(BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL NAMES AS
"HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE
HELP"??)
I did that twice, with the same results. Finally I tried re-installing my
System software, then installing Stuffit. It worked. Corrupted system?
Luck? The phase of Mercury? I dunno, but I got Stuffit installed... and
my regard for Aladdin took a drop.
All in all, I miss the old days when "install" meant "click and drag."
--
- Rich Holmes rich@suhep.bitnet
Syracuse U. Physics Dept. rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu
or if you must: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu
"The United States -- Making the World Safe For Monarchy!"
+ Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
--
Rich Holmes - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Rich.Holmes
INTERNET: Rich.Holmes@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGGarance.Drosehn@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Garance Drosehn) (12/29/90)
Reply-To: Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu In article <`IQ^0$+@rpi.edu> I eloquently ripped into: > daven@svc.portal.com for writing: > > When you reformatted your HD, did you do anything to collect bad > > sectors? You may just have a problem with a sector that happens > > to be where part of the directory catalogs fall. > with me saying things like: > This seems absurd to me. I used my disk day in and day out. I've > installed tons of applications on it. As noted in another article here, his guess wasn't as far off as I expected. I got a reply from Aladdin too (via America Online), and it turns out that the installer will sometimes trip over minor errors on the floppy disk. So it's not the hard disk as daven suggested, but daven was generally on the right track. To add a few bits to what was said in the article on "Aladdin's reply" from johnston@oscar, my message says it was errors on the floppy (johnston wasn't quite certain if it was the floppy or the hard disk) which seemed to be the problem. The message I got from Aladdin also said they took two different steps to address this. First they reorganized the code to work around the situation they believe is causing the problem. Secondly they added some sanity checking so the installer keeps track of how many files and folders it has installed, and if that number goes over the maximum it expects to install then the installer will stop. So even if they haven't found the real problem, we shouldn't see any more cases of the "infinite install". This is all welcome news to me. Sorry for getting so worked up in the previous posting, but whenever I recollect the headaches I had with the installer in August I get upset all over again... Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu + Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. -- Garance Drosehn - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Garance.Drosehn INTERNET: Garance.Drosehn@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Ken.Hancock@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Ken Hancock) (12/29/90)
Reply-To: kenh@hscfsas1.harvard.edu In article <1990Dec28.164601.10642@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: >(BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL NAMES AS >"HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE >HELP"??) Because that's the way it's supposed to be. When System 7.0 comes out, the folder manager will take care of nice things like this. All help files go in a HELP folder, all preferences files in a PREFERENCES folder, etc. What's the use of putting them in folders if all they do is make a folder called "Application XYZ Help" ? Then you just get 500 folders all called "Something Help" instead of 500 files called "Something help". Ken -- Ken Hancock I INTERNET: kenh@hscfsas1.harvard.edu Isle Systems I Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, Macintosh Consulting I your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it? + Organization: Isle Systems - Waltham, MA -- Ken Hancock - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Ken.Hancock INTERNET: Ken.Hancock@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
John.Starta@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Starta) (12/29/90)
From: starta@tosh.UUCP Reply-To: tosh!starta@asuvax.eas.asu.edu rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: > (BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL NAMES AS > "HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE > HELP"??) Generic folder names were used so that all of Aladdin's products can share similar resources (the Help files in this example, but the same is true of the Optimizers and so on) and therefore save disk space and System Folder landscape. Classic, Deluxe, Shortcut, Magic Menu, the QuicKeys 2 Extensions and the MicroPhone II XCMDs all take advantage of this. You are welcome to move things around, but why waste disk space with duplicate files just because you don't like the name of the folders? John -- John A. Starta Internet: tosh!starta@asuvax.eas.asu.edu Software Visionary UUCP: ncar!noao!asuvax!tosh!starta AOL: AFA John; CompuServe: 71520,3556 + Organization: Before Computing Inc., Phoenix, AZ -- John Starta - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!John.Starta INTERNET: John.Starta@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (12/31/90)
rich@suhep.bitnet (Rich Holmes) writes in a message on 28 Dec 90: RH> (BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL RH> NAMES AS "HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING RH> LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE HELP"??) Chill out, homeboy. Aladdin was simply following Apple's guidelines in this regard. With System 7, instead of seeing a huge number of help and prefs files out in the System folder with no organization, we'll have a Help folder and gobs of Help files in that. We'll have a Preferences folder with gobs of .prefs files in _it_. And so on. (In fact, those of you with both CESoftware and Aladdin products, check your Preferences folder.) Their Installer might not have worked quite right out of the box (I installed many a StuffIt and saw some problems, but _never_ the nested Folders from Hell), but Aladdin _does_ seem to know what they're doing. --Adam-- **************************************************************** * "But Windows slows performance, and its interface isn't as * * elegant as the Mac's. It's a little like listening to * * Bruce Willis play the blues: technically correct but * * soulless." * **************************************************************** * CIS: 70721,504 * * America OnLine: AdamFrix * * Internet: Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG * **************************************************************** -- Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200.2!Adam.Frix INET: Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (12/31/90)
rich@suhep.bitnet (Rich Holmes) writes in a message on 28 Dec 90:
RH> (BY THE WAY, ALADDIN, WHY DID YOU GIVE THOSE FOLDERS SUCH HELPFUL
RH> NAMES AS "HELP" OR WHATEVER? DIDN'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING
RH> LIKE "STUFFIT DELUXE HELP"??)
Chill out, homeboy. Aladdin was simply following Apple's guidelines in this
regard. With System 7, instead of seeing a huge number of help and prefs files
out in the System folder with no organization, we'll have a Help folder and
gobs of Help files in that. We'll have a Preferences folder with gobs of .prefs
files in _it_. And so on. (In fact, those of you with both CESoftware and
Aladdin products, check your Preferences folder.)
Their Installer might not have worked quite right out of the box (I installed
many a StuffIt and saw some problems, but _never_ the nested Folders from Hell),
but Aladdin _does_ seem to know what they're doing.
--Adam--
****************************************************************
* "But Windows slows performance, and its interface isn't as *
* elegant as the Mac's. It's a little like listening to *
* Bruce Willis play the blues: technically correct but *
* soulless." *
****************************************************************
* CIS: 70721,504 *
* America OnLine: AdamFrix *
* Internet: Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG *
****************************************************************
--
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