siegman@sierra.STANFORD.EDU (siegman) (12/24/90)
Direction (review; long) Summary: Expires: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Stanford University Keywords: I've written several msgs in the past praising TeX and especially the Textures implementation of TeX for the Mac. I've just installed the Textures 1.3 upgrade with the Computer Modern Postscript 0.9 fonts, both from Blue Sky Research in Portland OR; and I'm sorry to have to say in my opinion doing this at this time is several steps in the wrong direction. Textures 1.3 by itself would be fine. It implements a major ``final, final'' rewriting of the basic TeX program which has just been carried out by its original author Don Knuth, five years after the original ``final'' version was released. The major changes in TeX itself, however, are virtually all internal and invisible. In brief the internal structure of the program was rewritten in a major way so it will now accept 8-bit character input (256 separate characters) instead of the conventional 7-bit ASCII input, for those who have and want to use 8-bit keyboards. A few minor new capabilities were also added; but the commands and user interface of the program are otherwise virtually unchanged, and the ``new TeX'' is completely upward compatible with previous versions and their source files. You will hardly notice the difference between Textures 1.2 and 1.3 in action. The accompanying Computer Modern Postscript fonts package, labelled version 0.9, is, however, a disaster. It should have been held off the market until it could be finished and done right. First of all, installation of this package ranges from headache to nightmare. If you have Adobe Type Manager (ATM), which is recommended, it's headache; if you don't it's nightmare. To start with you _must_ install _forty_ separate Postscript font files as individual files cluttering up your System Folder. They can't go in a subfolder; they can't go anywhere else except the System Folder. You also have to make 40 separate and individual removals and possibly 40 replacements, using Font/DA Mover, to 40 of the 73 fonts appearing in 7 different TeX font suitcases in the Tex Fonts folder. This actually empties two of the standard Textures font suitcases from version 1.2, so that they then disappear; but the instructions don't tell you that. And when you're done you end up with all 40 of these Computer Modern fonts in your font menu, so that 40 names like ``cmssbx10'' and ``cmssqui8'' appear in the font menu for every application, even though you're not likely to want to use these fonts in any other application than TeX. Since they all begin with "cm" they all come after Chicago and before Courier, Geneva, Helvetica, or any of the other ordinary fonts you're likely to use; so you have to scroll through all of them to get at your usual fonts. The people at Blue Sky Research's 800 number were cheerful and helpful when called for assistance with the headaches of installation; they even called me back on their nickel. But it's not worth it; and the results leave you worse off than when you started. I recommend giving it a miss. --AES siegman@sierra.stanford.edu
nevai@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Paul Nevai) (12/25/90)
siegman said: >The accompanying Computer Modern Postscript fonts package, labelled >version 0.9, is, however, a disaster. It should have been held off >the market until it could be finished and done right. I luv Textures in every respect and I have an equally high opinion of Barry Smith (the guy who does everything there at Blue Sky Research). Nevertheless, I have to admit that there is a lot to improve on this CMP package. Siegman is correct in his review. With SuitCase though, one can put the 40 files in any directrory, there is no need to mess up the System folder. Bad news: CMP doesn't have all the standard Computer Modern fonts, so approxi- mations are required, and that needs to be done in inputs such as amsppt.sty $\equiv$ another headache. BUT, I know Barry reads the NET, so I am 100% sure that he will clean up CMP in version 1.0!!! Good News: Textures 1.3 can do amstex 2.0 & pictex & amsppt.sty without being overloaded!!! Great!!! Paul Nevai nevai@mps.ohio-state.edu (Internet) Department of Mathematics nevai@ohstpy (BITNET) The Ohio State University 1-(614)-292-3317 (Office) P.O. Box 3341 1-(614)-292-5310 (Answering Machine) Columbus, OH 43210-0341, USA 1-(614)-459-5615 (FAX)
schwer@unix.SRI.COM (Len Schwer) (12/29/90)
In article <1990Dec24.163644.12165@zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu> nevai@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Paul Nevai) writes: >siegman said: >>The accompanying Computer Modern Postscript fonts package, labelled >>version 0.9, is, however, a disaster. It should have been held off >>the market until it could be finished and done right. > >I luv Textures in every respect and I have an equally high opinion of Barry >Smith (the guy who does everything there at Blue Sky Research). Nevertheless, >I have to admit that there is a lot to improve on this CMP package. >Siegman is correct in his review. I too concur that Siegman's review was accurate. I very much like the improved quality of print provided by the CMPS fonts and recommend the package to anyone using Textures. I would caution that if you have a LaswerWriter, or other PS printer, with only 1 Mbyte of memory you will not be too happy with the amount of memory left for document processing. I have a single page of text and equations that will not print on a LaserWriter+ with 1 Mb and CMPS fonts installed; this same page prints fine on my 3Mb LWIINTX. While I am at it, let me also say that I find the telephone support from BlueSky to be excellent! --Len Schwer micro2.schwer@sri.com
barry@reed.UUCP (Barry Smith) (01/03/91)
\address
Anthony Siegman
Department of Electrical Engineering
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4085
\salute
Dear Professor Siegman,
\body
Thank you, sincerely, for your comments on our Computer Modern PostScript
version 0.9 release. Although I cannot agree with some of your opinions
(and by this letter hope to sway some of these), I appreciate very much the
candor and directness of your words.
I'd like to reply directly to some of your statements, both from your letter
of 18 December and your posting of 24 December, in arbitrary order:
\quote{should have been held off the market until it could be finished and
done right.} It {\it is} version 0.9, and I believe we have been clear that
we at Blue Sky Research do not consider the package to meet our own
standards of ``publication quality.'' We do believe that the package offers
very substantial capabilities not available elsewhere, and that by offering
it now in its current form we provide better service to our customers than
by withholding these capabilities while we improve the packaging. We feel
the product is easily of sufficient quality to warrant our unconditional
guarantee. To date, one purchaser has returned the product, because it did
not improve his print quality (and we do not make any advertisement that
it will).
\quote{installation of this package ranges from headache to nightmare.}
I agree! (Although I've had much worse of both.) This product has generated
{\it many} more telephone calls for installation assistance than any product
we've offered. A surprising fact, to me, is that the tedious step of
deleting and/or copying fonts has {\it not} caused problems, but the trivial
step of copying fonts to the System Folder has been a major source of
difficulties!
\quote{Do I really have to put them in the System Folder? All individually?}
Yes. You do. {\it Don't blame us.} That's the way the Apple System Software
and the Adobe Type Manager work. The Computer Modern PostScript fonts have
to work with other software---that's their purpose. The installation notes
do suggest using Suitcase or Master Juggler.
\quote{The Fonts menu in my other applications is already nearly a full
screen long.} My own font menu, in those applications that create an
unrestricted font menu, is four screens long, on a large monitor. (Font
menus are {\it not} a good method for organizing a large collection of fonts,
and who would urge that we should therefore restrict our available fonts?)
It's fair to say that we did not recognize, before this release, the change
in perspective this package of fonts would require for some of our customers
(those not already working with a large set of Macintosh fonts).
Unfortunately, the current version of Adobe Type Reunion (a menu manager
that attempts to create hierarchies in font menus) fails to make any sense
of the Computer Modern font names. We're talking with Adobe about this,
with a greater sense of urgency.
\quote{Fonts are messy, muddy and mysterious! You gotta make this font stuff
simpler and easier!} Agreed. We {\it will} take the time, in the version
1.0 release, to more thoroughly explain the installation process and cover
more options. You should understand, however, that in several ways our
hands are tied: we don't make the system software standards, but we do make
great efforts to follow them.
\quote{I love Textures} Thanks, it's good to hear from you!
\close
Sincerely,
Barry Smith
Blue Sky Researchphilip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (01/04/91)
One thing you might try to reduce the length of the font menus is to install the screen fonts directly in Textures, plus any other application(s) that need them. (Obviously not practical if you need to use them in many applications.) THe trick for doing this is to hold down Option when hitting Open in font/da mover. This allows you to open applications, as well as the usual System file and suitcase files. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
hodas@saul.cis.upenn.edu (Josh Hodas) (01/04/91)
In article <1991Jan3.185623.7477@Neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.stanford.edu writes: >One thing you might try to reduce the length of the font menus is to >install the screen fonts directly in Textures, plus any other application(s) >that need them. (Obviously not practical if you need to use them in many >applications.) Actually, it is not necessary to do this for TeXTures itself. Just put the suitcases in a folder called TeX Fonts in the folder which contains the application itself. Since I don't care about having the CM fonts open in other apps this is what I do. I had hoped that I could just drop the outlines in this folder as well. I had thought this would work, by analogy to the fact that when suitcase has a font file open, any outlines in the same folder are also accessible. Unfortunately it doesn't work out. For now my solution is to put a dummy suitcase with one of my apple fonts in the TeX fonts folder and keep this suitcase open with suitcase. This is a bit of a Kludge. I am not sure how easy it would be to add this facility to Textures (ie, when it opens the fonts in the TeX fonts folder, also add any outlines there to the font path) but it would be a nice feature if possible. All in all, I like the CM/PS package. Most of the hassles are because of Apple's way of finding fonts (which was perfectly reasonable in the old days). One question, Do you (Blue Sky) plan to release the rest of the LaTeX fonts in CM form with the 1.0 release? Its kind of annoying to have to keep bitmaps around for all those left-overs. Josh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Hodas Home Phone: (215) 222-7112 4223 Pine Street School Office Phone: (215) 898-9514 Philadelphia, PA 19104 New E-Mail Address: hodas@saul.cis.upenn.edu