ace@tidbits.UUCP (Adam C. Engst) (05/22/91)
I'm posting this now so that I don't have to butt in every time someone asks about MathType or Expressionist. If you are looking for a program that will create fancy mathematical and scientific equations, you should definitely check out MathWriter 2.0. It is a full fledged word processor with a feature set to rival Nisus and Word (although Nisus's features are usually quite different - Word's aren't). Some of the features that you might like include (this information is taken from the blurb from Brooks/Cole and the demo I saw a while back): - text-based mathematical equations that are fully editable (so you don't have to exit to another program to edit them) (mega-cool) - automatic numbering of equations, tables, figures, etc. - automatic revision control for editing purposes (this is snazzy!) - a library for storing repeated bits of text, equations, or pictures - excellent table-making abilities - a science/math/engineering supplemental dictionary - user styles - spelling checker - ability to print to the ImageWriter, LaserWriters, or any higher resolution PostScript device without file modification - on-screen line numbering - hidden memos within text - on-screen editing of multiple columns - ability to view pages in different scales - Thesaurus and Hyphenation - online help - text and graphics sidebars - Find/Replace for mathematical expressions - automatic line spacing for two-dimensional equations - ability to handle PostScript, bitmapped, and object graphics - ability to align on user selected characters, such as equal sign - ability to import RTF documents (so you can just throw out Word) As far as the details go, there is an "educational version" which is somewhat stripped down but will run better on slower machines (i.e., less than an LC) with less than 2 MB of RAM, which is the requirement for the "professional version." The educational version is $99 and the professional version is $395. You can get a free demo disk - call 408/373-0728 and ask the Brooks/Cole representative. Alternately, write to Brooks/Cole Publishing Company Dept. JK001 A 511 Forest Lodge Road Pacific Grove, CA 93950 USA I don't believe there's an email address for them at all. A friend who beta tested MathWriter at Cornell said that it was worlds better than creating equations in one of the other programs and pasting them into Word, which is an awfully clumsy solution to the problem. I personally have only used it a little bit, and as I don't ever do anything with equations, I can't vouch for its power there (though everyone else I've asked was impressed). However, I was extremely impressed by the general word processing power (I do a lot of that) and the excellent interface. It doesn't do grep or the fancy macros that Nisus can do, so I probably won't switch, but I'll admit that I was tempted. The final thing I liked about MathWriter is that they implemented the ability to accept modules written later on. I don't know offhand what they are planning to do, but that ability will allow them to extend MathWriter indefinitely. As a disclaimer, please note that I have no connection with the company or the program other than I know the programmer slightly. I can't really answer questions about MathWriter either, since I don't use it and I don't do equations, so I can't really compare it to other products. Contact Brooks/Cole if you have more questions... cheers .... Adam Engst, TidBITS Editor --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam C. Engst Editor of TidBITS, the weekly electronic Macintosh journal ace@tidbits.tcnet.ithaca.ny.us The best way to predict the future pv9y@crnlvax5, pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu is to invent it. -Alan Kay
claytor@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Nelson Claytor) (05/22/91)
In article <0E010025.dhbxgc@tidbits.UUCP> ace@tidbits.UUCP (Adam C. Engst) writes: > Contact Brooks/Cole if you have more questions... MathWriter sounds thoroughly wonderful; unfortunately, I called Brooks/Cole and they said that it is not out yet, they couldn't send me a demo disk, and they didn't really know when it would be out. Oh well.... Nelson Nelson Claytor claytor@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu
jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (george) (05/23/91)
I have assumed the task of evaluating Mathwriter 2, with the thought of having our group switch from our current 'system' of MS Word using Mathtype as well as native word formulas to create equations. I've been playing with the full 'pro' version on a IIci as well as on a 4Mb SE. Before giving it a big thumbs down, I thought I'd seek some net opinions. I hope Adam doesn't mind too much If I quote him out of order.. ]As a disclaimer, please note that I have no connection with the ]company or the program other than I know the programmer slightly. I ]can't really answer questions about MathWriter either, since I don't ] ^^^^^^^^^ ]use it and I don't do equations, so I can't really compare it to ]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ]other products. Contact Brooks/Cole if you have more questions... ] ]cheers .... Adam Engst, TidBITS Editor ... ](this information is taken from the blurb from Brooks/Cole and the ]demo I saw a while back): Fair enough, but that makes your review as good as reading the back of the box. (still better that a MacUser review though..) ]It is a full fledged word processor with a feature set to rival ]Nisus and Word (although Nisus's features are usually quite different ]- Word's aren't). Ease of transition / coexistance with Word is very important for most of the group, though if MW is really better I presonally am willing to work at it. ]Some of the features that you might like include ]- automatic numbering of equations, tables, figures, etc. drool. ]- user styles double drool. these are "character styles". You can define a style to be say subscript-symbol and later make global changes in the spirit of Word's paragraph styles theses two features alone are _almost_ worth switching for. ]- text-based mathematical equations that are fully editable (so you ]don't have to exit to another program to edit them) (mega-cool) I found the equation editing to be far from intuitive, but I have no doubt that it works well once mastered. However, I was suprised to see that the ouput quality is, at best, no better than what we get with our current setup. From what I'd heard I was expecting Tex-like quality, and this ain't. ]- Find/Replace for mathematical expressions Find replace is, well, way cool. You can search for various combinations of styles as well as old fasioned text. ]- automatic revision control for editing purposes (this is snazzy!) ]- a library for storing repeated bits of text, equations, or pictures ]- excellent table-making abilities ]- a science/math/engineering supplemental dictionary ]- on-screen line numbering ]- hidden memos within text ]- ability to view pages in different scales nice extras ]- Thesaurus and Hyphenation ]- online help ]- spelling checker ]- ability to print to the ImageWriter, LaserWriters, or any higher ]resolution PostScript device without file modification ]- ability to handle PostScript, bitmapped, and object graphics you may find these things exciting if you are migrating from say PC WordPerfect :-) ]- on-screen editing of multiple columns ]- text and graphics sidebars Word4 does these things much much better. ]- automatic line spacing for two-dimensional equations what does this mean? Whats a two-dimensional equation ? ]- ability to import RTF documents (so you can just throw out Word) the RTF filter interprets Word formulas ( way cool ), but for some reason chooses to ignore the \d ( displace ) operator. This is as far as I am concerned much better than nothing ( considering that there are about four Word users out there who use formulas.. ) ]As far as the details go, there is an "educational version" which is ]somewhat stripped down but will run better on slower machines (i.e., ]less than an LC) with less than 2 MB of RAM, which is the requirement ]for the "professional version." The education version is way stripped down. Ask for an explination before you buy. Some features of the full version can be 'removed' by removing files from the mathwriter folder ( such as the RTF module ),but it was not clear to me if I could 'make' an edu version by removing the apropriate files ( for testing purposes ). I tested the full version ( all files installed ) on a 4 Mb SE ( uni-Finder sys 6.07) using a 25 page document which I converted from Word ( did the conversion on my ci ). Double click on the file, go get a cup of coffe, still opening. Watch some TV. Still opening. Finally opens the file. Try to scroll to page 2. Look a watch cursor for a few minutes. Go watch some more tv. Come back to see machine crash. BTW I created that document with Word/MathtypeDa on a 1Mb SE. This alone wouldn't bother me too much, since we mostly have more powerful machines. ]A friend who beta tested MathWriter at Cornell said that it was ]worlds better than creating equations in one of the other programs ]and pasting them into Word, which is an awfully clumsy solution to ]the problem. Agreed, the current system is clumsy. On the other hand it seems futile ( and un mac like ) to create a whole new word processor just to address a couple of short comings. Anyone care to speculate on how Sys7 and interapplication communication, will impact this market? ]I was extremely impressed by the general word processing power (I do a lot ]of that) and the excellent interface. This brings me to my biggest problem. To consider switching, Mathwriter would need to be a word processor at least on par with Word. On the surface it has many many features which make it better, however there is one thing missing. -- paragraph styles. Mathwriter uses this archaic MacWrite-1986ish new-ruler-for-each-paragraph-change system. It seems to me we could acomplish much of Words style sheet functionality using character styles, but not everything. If anyone is using Mathwriter, and thinks I'm being silly, I am certainly willing to listen. Finally, I discovered one bug. Equations print poorly with "fractional widths" on, while regular text looks really bad ( were talking words on top of each other ) with fractional widths off. Someone from Microsoft must have written that part of the code. This is based on printing a MW supplied demo document to a LaserWriter, with Adobe screen fonts ( and the MW supplied Symbol screen font ) installed. -Patiently waiting for MW 3 george jefferson george@mech.seas.upenn.edu -- -george george@mech.seas.upenn.edu
ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET (05/23/91)
There is a review of MathWriter in the current issue of MacWeek. The ability to import EPS graphics really sounds nice (and as many of us know, that is something Word cannot do). But on the other hand, the reviewer did have some negative things to say about it. Although MathWriter can import RTF files, it cannot export them. So MathWriter can only save in its own format, or as plain text. This might be OK if you are creating your documents in a vacuum, but for those of us who interchange Mac math documents, there are two standards-- Word or TeX. MathWriter wants to make a 3rd standard--forget it! The review says equations can be saved in PICT format, whereas MathType will save in either PICT or EPS. My experience is that when PICT equations are pasted into draw programs they tend to break up, which is one reason why MathType is preferred for its EPS output. And MathType can translate it's equations into TeX format, which is very handy when a novice has to hastily prepare an abstract in TeX; MathWriter has no listed TeX capability. Admittedly, the Word/MathType combination is somewhat clumsy, but can be streamlined considerably by the use of QuicKeys macros. Meanwhile, MathWriter will have to offer much more before we would consider switching. Bruce Long Department of Mathematics Arizona State University icbal@asyvm.inre.asu.edu
scavo@cie.uoregon.edu (Tom Scavo) (05/23/91)
In article <0E010025.dhbxgc@tidbits.UUCP> ace@tidbits.UUCP writes: > >Some of the features that you might like include > >- text-based mathematical equations that are fully editable (so you >don't have to exit to another program to edit them) (mega-cool) An integrated equation editor is one of MathWriter's strong points, but equations are not particularly easy to edit. >- automatic numbering of equations, tables, figures, etc. Super! Can't imagine how I managed without this for so long. >- automatic revision control for editing purposes (this is snazzy!) Not tested, but looks good. >- a library for storing repeated bits of text, equations, or pictures Excellent, much better than Word's glossary. Library entries are inserted into the text as you type. Great! >- excellent table-making abilities MW doesn't do tables like Word. Can't press return within a cell. Can't collapse columns and/or rows. Can't modify the column width or apply paragraph formats to cell entries. Not really tables at all, but an extension of the matrix concept (which is very nice, btw). >- a science/math/engineering supplemental dictionary Very nice, but only one user dictionary can be open at a time. >- user styles Abominable. Can not apply ruler or paragraph formatting to a style entry. Yes, these are character styles which Word users have asked for repeatedly, but MW's stylesheet just doesn't measure up to Word's powerful, hierarchically organized styles. Sorry. >- spelling checker A bit clumsy to use, but probably as good as Word's. >- ability to print to the ImageWriter, LaserWriters, or any higher >resolution PostScript device without file modification >- on-screen line numbering Not tested, but I can see where this would come in handy. >- hidden memos within text Excellent feature. >- on-screen editing of multiple columns Limited to four. Note that MathWriter has nothing like Word's concept of a _section_ in its organizational hierarchy. >- ability to view pages in different scales MathWriter's page preview (called Overview) is not as nice as Word's---less functional and less useful. (I still think FrameMaker, with its zoom feature, is best.) >- Thesaurus and Hyphenation Thesaurus is the same one bundled with Word; no user control of the hyphenation utility. >- online help Not context sensitive. >- text and graphics sidebars In contrast to Word's Position command, these are easy to use but somewhat limited in page layout capability. >- Find/Replace for mathematical expressions But it's impossible to paste into the text boxes of Find/ Replace, which I find very frustrating. On the other hand, the Find/Replace has its own menu bar (!) and is loaded with options. >- automatic line spacing for two-dimensional equations Nice feature. >- ability to handle PostScript, bitmapped, and object graphics I've tried some SuperPaint images with no problem. No hot links, however. >- ability to align on user selected characters, such as equal sign Great! But it's better to use MW tables as an "eqnarray" environment. This eliminates the need for tabbing. >- ability to import RTF documents (so you can just throw out Word) Excellent feature...even translates complex Word formulas. Not perfect, but eases the transition from Word to MW tremendously. An export RTF filter is in the works (oops! Was I supposed to say that! Oh well...) Other nice features include default files, a font table, and a menu of diacritical marks. >As far as the details go, there is an "educational version" which is >somewhat stripped down but will run better on slower machines (i.e., >less than an LC) with less than 2 MB of RAM, which is the requirement >for the "professional version." The educational version is $99 and >the professional version is $395. You can get a free demo disk - call >408/373-0728 and ask the Brooks/Cole representative. Alternately, >write to > >Brooks/Cole Publishing Company >Dept. JK001 A >511 Forest Lodge Road >Pacific Grove, CA 93950 USA The Educational Version is *very* much stripped down, and its cost can not be applied to the Professional Version. Site licensing options are available (but they're expensive). Professional Version definitely requires '030 Mac; oversized screen is recommended. The more memory, the better, since MW documents are memory based. >I don't believe there's an email address for them at all. Yes, there is. It's d2248@applelink.apple.com I can comment on MathWriter's handling of mathematical text and formulas if there's interest. (I'm one of the beta testers and have used it extensively.) Tom Scavo scavo@cie.uoregon.edu
hal@CS.Cornell.EDU (Hal Perkins) (05/24/91)
ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET writes: >Although MathWriter can import RTF files, it cannot export them. >So MathWriter can only save in its own format, or as plain text. >This might be OK if you are creating your documents in a vacuum, but for >those of us who interchange Mac math documents, there are two standards-- >Word or TeX. MathWriter wants to make a 3rd standard--forget it! I went to the MathWriter presentation given here at Cornell. The subject of TeX output came up and Bob Cooke (one of the authors) said it was definitely something they would like to do. One of MathWriter's features is that you can drop extension modules into the application's folder. A TeX extension is an obvious candidate. The main problem seems to be that their publisher, Brooks/Cole, apparently isn't convinced there is enough demand for TeX output to justify funding it. If you think TeX output is a good idea/necessary feature be sure to tell Brooks/Cole. If you won't buy MathWriter 2.0 until it supports TeX output let them know that also. I suspect they will take the hint if enough people ask. Hal Perkins hal@cs.cornell.edu Cornell CS
phil@waikato.ac.nz (Phil Etheridge) (05/27/91)
Hal Perkins writes: > > A TeX extension is an obvious candidate. The > main problem seems to be that their publisher, Brooks/Cole, apparently > isn't convinced there is enough demand for TeX output to justify > funding it. > > If you think TeX output is a good idea/necessary feature be sure to > tell Brooks/Cole. If you won't buy MathWriter 2.0 until it supports > TeX output let them know that also. I suspect they will take the hint > if enough people ask. Their two main competitors, MathType and Expressionist both do this, I wonder why *they* bothered... If they produced a converter that translated a whole document directly into TeX, I think they'd be onto a winner. (Another similar product, Formulator, claims to do this, but it's implementation is lousy). The other two neccessitate labourious equation-by-equation conversion. -- Phil Etheridge (phil@waikato.ac.nz) Phax: +64 +71 384 155 Computer Services/Mathematics & Statistics Phone: +64 +71 568 299 x 8339 University of Waikato, Hamilton, NZ. I'd rather be MTBing