giacomet@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) (05/02/91)
In article <2607@amethyst.math.arizona.edu> bureau@amethyst.math.arizona.edu (Pierre Bureau) writes: > >Le Premier Mai ou "May Day", connu aussi sous le nom de >"Remembrance Day" commemore une manifestation syndicale >assez sanglante voila un peu plus d'un siecle, a Chicago. > >Je crois que la police ou des vigilantes tirerent sur la >foule et qu'il y a eu autour d'une dizaine de morts. Oui, le premier Mai commemore la repression sanglante d'une gre`ve par la police a` Chicago dans les annees 1880. Cela c'etait passe' sur la place ou se tenait la "bourse du travail": l'endroit ou` les journaliers attendainet qu'on vienne les embaucher pour le travail a` la journee ou a` la semaine. Un embryon de gre`ve avait de'marre', et la police avait charge' et tire' apre`s avoir envoye' quelques provocateurs dans le tas. Une centaine de morts et blesse's environ. La chose bizare est que, si vous allez a` Chicago, toute trace, ou meme reference a` cet evenement a disparu. Meme le nom de la place et les rues ont change'; cela s'etait passe' vers le bas de Michigan. Meme pas une plaque, et la plupart des habitants de Chicago ne connaissent pas l'evenement non plus. Un bel exemple d'escamotage historique a` mon avis. C'est vrai que, au jour ou` les "heritage" and "rememberance" days sont a` la mode aux E.U., la celebration d'un tel evenement dans l'Illinois serait potentiellement dangereux. Pourtant, cela a bien existe'. J'en ai vu les photos une fois dans un album photo sur l'histoire de Chicago. Je crois meme que Doistoievski y fait allusion une fois dans les "Possedes", par le biais de Nicolas Stavrogine. Evidement, en reponse, le 1er Mai est aujourd'hui celebre' dans le monde entier sauf aux E.U. et au Canada, qui ont leur "labor day" en Septembre. En fait, ici, dans l'Indiana, Purdue ne cele`bre me^me pas le "labor day". Ce serait contraire a` l'e'thique de travail de l'universite' (les salauds, pas de labor day, pas de week-end de paques, pas de 15 aout, pas d'armistice, pas de 8 mai, que dalle !! le 4 juillet, Noel, et le jour de l'an, c'est tout). --
distef@eecg.toronto.edu (Eugenia Distefano) (05/02/91)
As others have already written, the demonstration in question took place in Chicago. As far as I know, May Day has been a holiday for a long time in many countries. In Italy, for example, it was a holiday already before Fascism; then the Fascists moved Labour Day to April 21st (same day as "i natali di Roma") and after Fascism it was moved back to May 1st. What I was wondering about is if this is what happened in the U.S. too - i.e. was Labour Day once celebrated in the U.S. on May 1st? Perhaps it might have been moved after the 1917 October revolution (in Russia May 1st immediately became a national holiday after the revolution, as far as I know) to dissociate it from its socialist tradition? Or is it a more recent holiday that was placed in September directly (for the same reason as above)? When was Labour Day first celebrated in the U.S.? France? Other countries? -- Eugenia Distefano distef@eecg.toronto.edu
cl@lgc.com (Cameron Laird) (05/03/91)
In article <1991May2.141435.4390@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> giacomet@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes: . . . > La chose bizare est que, si vous allez a` Chicago, toute trace, ou >meme reference a` cet evenement a disparu. Meme le nom de la place >et les rues ont change'; cela s'etait passe' vers le bas de Michigan. >Meme pas une plaque, et la plupart des habitants de Chicago ne connaissent >pas l'evenement non plus. Un bel exemple d'escamotage historique a` mon >avis. C'est vrai que, au jour ou` les "heritage" and "rememberance" days >sont a` la mode aux E.U., la celebration d'un tel evenement dans >l'Illinois serait potentiellement dangereux. . . . Je la doute. At least one of us misjudges the character of Chicago. It's part of the assimilationist character of the USA not to know how to hold grudges the way folks do in Ireland, Turkey, South Africa, Peru, Vietnam, ... The genetic descendants of the nineteenth-century marchers are likely to be commodity exchange runners and hospital administrators; those of the police perhaps airplane pilots and electrical contractors. If we held a May Day demonstration today, who would fire on whom? There's certainly plenty of violence in Cook County, but not over such archaic conflicts as (nineteenth-century style) "class struggle". -- Cameron Laird +1 713-579-4613 cl@lgc.com (cl%lgc.com@uunet.uu.net) +1 713-996-8546
giacomet@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) (05/03/91)
In article <1991May2.180348.21097@lgc.com> cl@lgc.com (Cameron Laird) writes: >In article <1991May2.141435.4390@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> giacomet@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes: > . > . > . >> La chose bizare est que, si vous allez a` Chicago, toute trace, ou >>meme reference a` cet evenement a disparu. Meme le nom de la place >>et les rues ont change'; cela s'etait passe' vers le bas de Michigan. >>Meme pas une plaque, et la plupart des habitants de Chicago ne connaissent >>pas l'evenement non plus. Un bel exemple d'escamotage historique a` mon >>avis. C'est vrai que, au jour ou` les "heritage" and "rememberance" days >>sont a` la mode aux E.U., la celebration d'un tel evenement dans >>l'Illinois serait potentiellement dangereux. > . > . > . >Je la doute. At least one of us misjudges the character >of Chicago. It's part of the assimilationist character >of the USA not to know how to hold grudges the way folks >do in Ireland, Turkey, South Africa, Peru, Vietnam, ... Could you be more specific ? What sort of grudges ? Why these countries ? Anyway, I do not think "grudges" are really the issue, but that, in a city where even the wall in front of which Dallinger was killed by the mob (at the Biograph theater) has its plaque commemorative, and where every body knows where the St Valentin slaughter took place, and what were the location of the high-feats of Al-Capone, I would say that, the place of the killing of striking workers by the armed police forces, from which the May Day celebration was issued, has its place. There are numerous commemorative plaques all over the place in this city, almost for the firt anything: first whiteman wintering, first anglo-whites massacred by indians, first building, first skyscraper etc... If find it disturbing, if not malsain, that May 1st should not also have its own. >The genetic descendants of the nineteenth-century marchers >are likely to be commodity exchange runners and hospital >administrators; those of the police perhaps airplane Certainly not all of them !! Who runs the factories and the mines out there ? Anyway, this is irrelevant. Are the people celebrating it worldwide "genetic descendants" of the victims ? Do you need be one to celebrate ? >pilots and electrical contractors. If we held a May Day >demonstration today, who would fire on whom? There's Why do you want a fireshot again ? Why should it be directed against somebody. Mayday demonstrations are not violent anywhere, it is a symbol, which is carefully escamoted in Chicago. >certainly plenty of violence in Cook County, but not over >such archaic conflicts as (nineteenth-century style) >"class struggle". I don't think it was a "class strugle", since Chicago never really had an upper-class. It is a young, modern, and popular city. I don't think the issue is in these terms. --
cl@lgc.com (Cameron Laird) (05/07/91)
In article <1991May2.191553.12139@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> giacomet@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes: >In article <1991May2.180348.21097@lgc.com> cl@lgc.com (Cameron Laird) writes: >>In article <1991May2.141435.4390@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> giacomet@haley.ecn.purdue.edu ( ) writes: >> . >> . >> . >>> La chose bizare est que, si vous allez a` Chicago, toute trace, ou >>>meme reference a` cet evenement a disparu. Meme le nom de la place >>>et les rues ont change'; cela s'etait passe' vers le bas de Michigan. >>>Meme pas une plaque, et la plupart des habitants de Chicago ne connaissent >>>pas l'evenement non plus. Un bel exemple d'escamotage historique a` mon >>>avis. C'est vrai que, au jour ou` les "heritage" and "rememberance" days >>>sont a` la mode aux E.U., la celebration d'un tel evenement dans >>>l'Illinois serait potentiellement dangereux. >> . >> . >> . >>Je la doute. At least one of us misjudges the character >>of Chicago. It's part of the assimilationist character >>of the USA not to know how to hold grudges the way folks >>do in Ireland, Turkey, South Africa, Peru, Vietnam, ... > >Could you be more specific ? What sort of grudges ? Why these countries ? Oh, I was ill-humoredly provocative, but I'll plunge on, and be more specific. Anecdote template: USAican visits some old country, engages native in conversation. Native says, "Oh, yes, in fact, it was just over that hill there that the {invaders,protesters,northerners,southerners,...} killed my uncle." USAican says, "Really? That's awful." Native says, "yes, and it was spring-time." "What year was that?" "[some year before 1800]" And the US native thinks he's encountered a strange fellow. Americans are adolescents (to generalize, in the rather grossiere manner of s.c.f.). We're exuberant, ambitious, ..., and have real problems paying attention for longer than a few hundred seconds (bon, la Guerre entre les Etats fait une exception que nous pouvons discuter ailleurs). Je ne puis pas imaginer le danger "potentiel" que vous attendez en pensant de <<la celebration d'un tel evenement ...>>. Le May Day--la lutte des classes comprise--n'import point aux Chicagoans. . . . > There are numerous commemorative plaques all over the place in this city, >almost for the firt anything: first whiteman wintering, first anglo-whites >massacred by indians, first building, first skyscraper etc... >If find it disturbing, if not malsain, that May 1st should not also >have its own. Nous sommes d'accord. . . . >Why do you want a fireshot again ? Why should it be directed against >somebody. Mayday demonstrations are not violent anywhere, it is >a symbol, which is carefully escamoted in Chicago. . . . >I don't think it was a "class strugle", since Chicago never really had >an upper-class. It is a young, modern, and popular city. I don't think >the issue is in these terms. . . . Je me suis trompe. Vous avez ecrit d'une <<... celebra- tion ... potentiellement dangereux ...>> et je pensais que il y avait une question sur la probabilite de la violence. -- Cameron Laird +1 713-579-4613 cl@lgc.com (cl%lgc.com@uunet.uu.net) +1 713-996-8546