hugh@chook.ua.oz.au (Hugh Garsden) (10/24/90)
In article <1990Oct20.180354.14244@nas.nasa.gov>, adobe!!asanders@decwrl.dec.com writes: |> |> | The general consensus is that the soul (or your own interpretation of "soul") |> | enters the "body" at conception, and further that the soul is in some way |> | the prerequisite for conception... |> -Hugh Garsden |> |> This is an interesting line of inquiry, but I can't help thinking that |> one of the most basic teaching of Eastern religion is that we live in a |> state of Ignorance--that we do not know the truth about our existence and |> cannot know this Truth until WE OURSELVES change. Thus Practice rather |> than Study becomes the basis for the search for Truth. |> |> >From this point of view, whatever "general consensus" we reach about any |> difficult question is bound to be flawed, because the instrument of inquiry |> is flawed. Clearly, the road to self-perfection is far more trecherous than |> the road to intellectual knowledge. But the rewards must be correspondingly |> greater as well. In general I agree with this, but with some comments about knowledge over Practice - 1. The simple fact that there are references in religious texts to answer my question indicates that knowledge is certainly a part (although not the most important part) of religious doctrines. Knowledge and Practice are both present. 2. All levels of consciousness have their own ways of knowing, and their own kind of knowledge. For example, empirical science does very well at examining the material world. Each level encloses and integrates the knowledge of all lower levels. But there is nothing "wrong" with the knowledge that belongs to a certain level. Ultimately what we must do is achieve Unity with the Absolute (the Truth you speak of), but to do that we must get there by passing up through the levels below it. If I want to climb to the top of a ladder, I must pass all the rungs from the bottom to the top, I can't miraculously end up at the top without actually making the climb. Considering the rungs of consciousness, as I move from each rung to the next I acquire the knowledge, power and truth that belongs to each level, and integrate them into "me"; and there is nothing wrong with the fact that I am doing this. 3. Consider the state of humanity when it moved from the pre-rational level to the rational (if indeed we have done that). As far as that humanity was concerned, rational/intellectual enquiry and development _was_ their Practice. Exercising and developing their minds is what they should have been doing, and was appropriate Practice for that level. With regard to point 2. perhaps it is possible to make jumps which skip certain levels. However, it may be that in doing so the result is not as good as passing through the levels, i.e. there is "something missing" which will still need to found. Any comments on this? Is it possible for someone to suddenly make a "jump" to enlightenment? And I mean a big jump. What is the result? Is it the same as reaching enlightenment via a gradual development with no jumps? -------- Hugh Garsden University of Adelaide hugh@cs.adelaide.edu.au
kde@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov ( Keith Evans) (10/31/90)
In <1990Oct24.071156.20009@nas.nasa.gov> hugh@chook.ua.oz.au (Hugh Garsden) writes: >In article <1990Oct20.180354.14244@nas.nasa.gov>, >adobe!!asanders@decwrl.dec.com writes: >|> >|> This is an interesting line of inquiry, but I can't help thinking that >|> one of the most basic teaching of Eastern religion is that we live in a >|> state of Ignorance--that we do not know the truth about our existence and >|> cannot know this Truth until WE OURSELVES change. Thus Practice rather >|> than Study becomes the basis for the search for Truth. >|> We seek this truth within ourselves by looking for the true entity of life. Only after finding this truth can we polish the mirror of our lives and reveal the Buddhahood inherent in us. Nichiren Daishonin (1222-1282) proclaimed this entity as Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and enscribed the Gohonzon (the physical manifestation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo) before he died so that all mankind could gain Buddhahood in this lfetime. Chanting it, even without understanding its meaning will bring benefit as good medicine works even if we don't know how it does. >1. The simple fact that there are references in religious >texts to answer my question indicates that knowledge is certainly a part >(although not the most important part) of religious doctrines. >Knowledge and Practice are both present. Through practice one gains "real" knowledge as compared to theoretical knowledge. >2. All levels of consciousness have their own ways of knowing, >and integrates the knowledge of all lower levels. But there is nothing >"wrong" with the knowledge that belongs to a certain level. Ultimately >what we must do is achieve Unity with the Absolute (the Truth >you speak of), but to do that we must get there by passing up through >the levels below it. If I want to climb to the top of a ladder, I must All are equal and can gain Buddhahood as they are (just by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo). >Exercising and developing their minds is what they should have been doing, and >was appropriate Practice for that level. The practice is the same for all levels. >missing" which will still need to found. Any comments on this? Is it >possible for someone to suddenly make a "jump" to enlightenment? And I >mean a big jump. What is the result? Is it the same as reaching enlightenment >via a gradual development with no jumps? See above. It is not the same as reaching enlightenment gradually, with no jumps. Actually, you cannot reach enlightenment that way at all. Only with faith (that Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is your life itself) can you become one with the reality that is the true entity of life. -- Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. Respectfully, Keith Evans kde@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov
scott@tichy.HAC.COM (Scott Channell) (11/22/90)
In article <1990Oct31.013147.10335@nas.nasa.gov> kde@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov ( Keith Evans) writes: > >We seek this truth within ourselves by looking for the true entity of life. >Only after finding this truth can we polish the mirror of our lives and >reveal the Buddhahood inherent in us. > <...stuff deleted...> > >Nichiren Daishonin (1222-1282) proclaimed this entity as Nam-myoho-renge-kyo >and enscribed the Gohonzon (the physical manifestation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo) >before he died so that all mankind could gain Buddhahood in this lfetime. >Chanting it, even without understanding its meaning will bring benefit as >good medicine works even if we don't know how it does. > <...stuff deleted...> > >All are equal and can gain Buddhahood as they are (just by chanting >Nam-myoho-renge-kyo). > Isn't "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" just the title of the Lotus Sutra ?? It was my understanding that Nichiren proclaimed that the Lotus Sutra were the only TRUE words of The Buddha and any other teachings were, at that time, leading Japan to ruin. Nichiren was supposedly sentenced to death twice. The first time he was pardoned and the second time he was saved by some form of miracle. He was finally exiled to an island where he eventually died from some internal ailment. Hughes Aircraft Co. voice: (213) 616-1059 Image and Signal Processing Lab smart: scott@tcville.hac.com PO Box 902, E53/E250 dumb: scott%tcville@hac2arpa.hac.com El Segundo, Ca. 90245 uucp: hacgate!tcville!scott
kde@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov ( Keith Evans) (11/27/90)
In <1990Nov22.014152.3144@nas.nasa.gov> scott@tichy.HAC.COM (Scott Channell) writes: >In article <1990Oct31.013147.10335@nas.nasa.gov> kde@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov ( Keith Evans) writes: >> ><...stuff deleted...> >> >>Nichiren Daishonin (1222-1282) proclaimed this entity as Nam-myoho-renge-kyo >>and enscribed the Gohonzon (the physical manifestation of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo) >>before he died so that all mankind could gain Buddhahood in this lfetime. >>Chanting it, even without understanding its meaning will bring benefit as >>good medicine works even if we don't know how it does. >> ><...stuff deleted...> >> >>All are equal and can gain Buddhahood as they are (just by chanting >>Nam-myoho-renge-kyo). >> >Isn't "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" just the title of the Lotus Sutra ?? Myoho-renge-kyo is the title of the Lotus Sutra, a Japanese of old Chinese. Nam, is short for the Sanskrit namas, devote mind and body to. >It was my understanding that Nichiren proclaimed that the Lotus Sutra >were the only TRUE words of The Buddha and any other teachings were, >at that time, leading Japan to ruin. Based on his study of the Buddha's teachings, he proclaimed that the preaching of the Lotus Sutra are the only completely true words of the Buddha and is the reason for his (Shakyamuni) advent in this world.` > Nichiren was supposedly sentenced to >death twice. The first time he was pardoned and the second time he >was saved by some form of miracle. He was finally exiled to an island >where he eventually died from some internal ailment. He was exiled twice. The second exile started as an execution but when they were ready to chop his head off, a meteor lit up the sky and scared his executions. He had done nothing wrong except to proclaim the superiority of the Lotus Sutra and Nam-myoho-renge-kyo over all other Buddhist teachings extant in Japan. When they couldn't kill him they exiled hin to Sado Island. After more than 2 years there, he was pardoned and he remonstrated once again with the Hei no Saemon, the deputy minister, and then he retired to Monut Minobu after Hei no Saemon refused to heed him. Nichiren inscribed the Gohonzon in 1279, and died in 1282, after passing the teachings on to his successor. -- Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. Respectfully, Keith Evans kde@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov