[soc.religion.eastern] Is Nicherin Shoshu Buddhism?

moskowit@paul.rutgers.edu (Len Moskowitz) (02/12/91)

I have been concerned about Keith Evans' posts describing the Nicherin
Shoshu sect.  What he describes is nothing like the Buddhism with
which I'm familiar.  I asked a Ch'an monk whom I greatly respect, the
Ven. Shih Shen Lung, (a dharma heir also known as "That Old Frog" and
Ryugen Fisher, telephone: 715-362-3371) to tell me about Nicherin
Shoshu.  This is his reply:


From:    Old Frog                               Rec'd Sent 
To:      Len Moskowitz                          Msg #765, 12:33pm Feb-06-91
Subject: Re: Inter-sect rivalries

The Nicherin Shoshu folks are Buddhists only insofar as they call
themselves Buddhists. The common feeling from ALL OTHER Buddhist
persuasions that I know of is that calling one's self a Buddhist (or
calling one's philosophy Buddhism) don't necessarily make it true. ...
Buddhism (with this exception) has three and only three defining
criteria:

   1) That one take refuge in the Buddha 
        (this can be either the historical Shakyamuni of India or
         of the "Cosmic Buddha-Nature" [Vairocana] flavor {or both})

   2) That one take refuge in the Dharma
        (dharma being either the body of texts attributed to the
         historical Buddha and/or a selected number of his followers,
         but being based on the 4 Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path;
         OR the more subtle meaning of dharma [truth] which means in
	 this context the former AND the body of experiential knowledge
	 that one personally aquires)

   3) That one take refuge in the Sangha
         (Sangha being the community of those persons who subscribe to
	 #1 and #2 above and further pledge their support for likeminded
         others)

The militant proselytizing of the Nicherin Shoshu cult fails the first
two tests in that they take refuge in their teacher Nicherin
Daishonin, who was kicked out of his own country for his radical
political views and aggressive militancy (he espoused taking arms
before one even came to a sea of troubles...) and they do not practice
the Eightfold Path. What few Westerners know is that $$$ from
contributions to the Nicherin Shosho Sect (in Japan) are given to the
Sokka Geikai - an ultra rightwing political party (yep, same views as
got the founder exiled) in Japan. The Sokka Geikai is on record as
believing in the renunciation of the Japanese Constitution
(specifically as regards Japan creating Armed Forces [i.e. Army, Navy,
etc.]), tariff protectionism, Japanese ownership of the Okinawan
islands (and parts of the Phillipines), second class citizenship for
'non-ethnic Japanese' (Koreans, etc.).... generally they are the KKK
of Japan.

That "...long winded, but finished for now..." Old Frog

-----

Len Moskowitz

mayne@vsserv.scri.fsu.edu (William (Bill) Mayne) (02/13/91)

In article <Feb.11.15.49.47.1991.9097@paul.rutgers.edu> moskowit@paul.rutgers.edu (Len Moskowitz) writes:
>I have been concerned about Keith Evans' posts describing the Nicherin
>Shoshu sect.  What he describes is nothing like the Buddhism with
>which I'm familiar.

I agree that Nicherin Shoshu is nothing like the Buddhism with which
I am familiar either, which includes Zen (of several varieties),
Tibetan, Theravada, and to a lesser extent several others. In spite of
some big external differences and differences in emphasis all of these
have a large core in common. If that core is what defines Buddhism then
Nicherin Shoshu is not Buddhism. But we don't have a trademark on the
name.

I support free speech in this forum, and Keith Evans is as welcome
as anybody to express his opinions here. Regardless of whether or
not other Buddhists consider Nicherin Shoshu to be "real Buddhism (tm)"
it is clearly an eastern religion and hence within the subject
of soc.religion.eastern.

Since I don't like to see Buddhism misrepresented and Nicherin Shoshu
is so unlike main stream Buddhism I just wish he would identify his
sect and supply some sources for his assertions, rather than make
blanket statements as if they were Buddhist teaching. Perhaps this
concern is unfounded, though. His posts are so full of statements
denigrating all but a small part of the teaching attributed to the
Buddha it may be obvious even to the uninformed that his statements
don't reflect the views of most Buddhists.

>[Quoting a Ch'an monk, Ven. Shih Shen Lung, a.k.a "That Old Frog"]
>
>The Nicherin Shoshu folks are Buddhists only insofar as they call
>themselves Buddhists...
[Explanation of Refuges as defining characteristic of Buddhists
omitted.]

[Referring to Sokka Geikai [sic, sp?], the political party associated
with Nicherin in Japan]
>...  generally they are the KKK of Japan.

Statements like this invite further rancorous debate which may do
even more damage to the image of Buddhism than Keith Evans' posts.
I am writing this post merely as a concerned individual and not
as acting moderator. I have no intention of censoring or even
editting the posts of anyone. I am asking my fellow Buddhists to
consider refraining from attacking or debating Keith Evans, or
at least using email. This is an argument we can't win except by
staying above it. If Mr. Evans will kindly make clear in his posts
that he is representing the views of Nicherin Shoshu we should
have no problem with that. I am much less concerns with explicit
attacks on main stream Buddhist teaching than with the presentation
of unorthodox teaching as Buddhism (tm). If he wishes to post answers to
general questions about Buddhism from the perspective of Nicherin
Shoshu that is fine. We can answer the same questions directly from our
own perspectives, quite possibly contradicting the Nicherin Shoshu
position but without attacking it. This is how the Buddha told monks
to respond to anyone who slandered the Buddha, the Dharma, or the
Sangha. I don't have the actual text in front of me, but it came down
to simply stating what is factual and what is not.

torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) (02/13/91)

In article <Feb.11.15.49.47.1991.9097@paul.rutgers.edu> moskowit@paul.rutgers.
edu (Len Moskowitz) writes:

   >I have been concerned about Keith Evans' posts describing the Nicherin
   >Shoshu sect.  What he describes is nothing like the Buddhism with
   >which I'm familiar.

   I think it's of interest here to quote the views of a well-known Buddhist
scholar, Edward Conze. In his "Buddhism: its essence and development", he
remarks:

        It is customary to reckon the sect of Nichiren (1222-1282)
        as one of the schools of Amidism. It would be more appropriate
        to count it among the offshoots of nationalistic Shintoism.
        Nichiren suffered from self-assertiveness and bad temper, and
        he manifested a degree of personal and tribal egotism which
        disqualifies him as a Buddhist teacher. He did not only convince
        himself that he, personally, was mentioned in the "Lotus of the
        Good Law," but also that the Japanese were the chosen race
        which would regenerate the world. The followers of the Nichiren
        sect, as Suzuki puts it: "even now are more or less militaristic
        and do not mix well with other Buddhists."

acosta@locus.com (Joseph Acosta) (02/13/91)

Len,
	I wish to elaborate on a few points bassed on your inquirey from 
"Old Frog".   As a Nicheren Shoshu believer I wish to discuss these points
rationally as possible and point out items that are not correct as far as
my own undrestanding is concerned.  I welcome the opportunity for dialog
on the concerned subject matter.

In article <Feb.11.15.49.47.1991.9097@paul.rutgers.edu> moskowit@paul.rutgers.edu (Len Moskowitz) writes:
>From:    Old Frog                               Rec'd Sent 
>To:      Len Moskowitz                          Msg #765, 12:33pm Feb-06-91
>Subject: Re: Inter-sect rivalries
>
>The militant proselytizing of the Nicherin Shoshu cult fails the first
>two tests in that they take refuge in their teacher Nicherin
>Daishonin, 

>who was kicked out of his own country for his radical
>political views and aggressive militancy (he espoused taking arms
>before one even came to a sea of troubles...) 

This is not quite correct, Nicherin Daisonin was exiled to Sado Island 
(the Japanese Equivalent to Siberia) bassed on his remonstration with
the Kamakura Govt.  His remonstration was against the Pure Land sect or
Nembutsu.  In this remonstration he stated that the ill's suffered by the
Japanese nation at that time period (~ 1240 AD) we due to the pratise of
misleading religions and at the time the Nembutsu Sect was more or less
a state sanctioned religion.   

This remonstration and related subject matter can become a long discussion
so I will only sumarize here.  Anyway as a result of this remonstration he
(Nichiren Daishonin) was exiled to Sado Island.  He never "espoused taking
arms" at any time.  After being exiled for about 2 years (I think it was 2)
he was pardoned by the same Govt which exiled him.  He returned to remonstrate
with the Govt one last time and when the Govt refused to acknowledge him
he retired to Mt Minobu (ie in Japan).  His desire was the establisment of 
peace through the practice of true buddhism, not on "taking arms".


>and they do not practice
>the Eightfold Path. What few Westerners know is that $$$ from
>contributions to the Nicherin Shosho Sect (in Japan) are given to the
>Sokka Geikai - an ultra rightwing political party (yep, same views as
>got the founder exiled) in Japan. 

That's Soka Gakkai, anyway the Soka Gakkai is an organization of lay
believers who practise Nichern Shosu Buddhism.  It is an organization
which allows members to pratise these version of buddhism correctly and
obtain as many benifits as possible.  The Soka Gakkai raises money to
support it's many community centers throughout the world and and raises
money to support the Priesthood.  An "ultra rightwing political party" it
is not. 

>The Sokka Geikai is on record as
>believing in the renunciation of the Japanese Constitution
>(specifically as regards Japan creating Armed Forces [i.e. Army, Navy,
>etc.]), tariff protectionism, Japanese ownership of the Okinawan
>islands (and parts of the Phillipines), second class citizenship for
>'non-ethnic Japanese' (Koreans, etc.).... generally they are the KKK
>of Japan.
>
This are some big accusations I believe all of these to be false and will
talk about them later.  
I know this is a second party post but I donnot agree with the accusations
stated here and like to inquire further about the details/proof of these
accusations.
>That "...long winded, but finished for now..." Old Frog
>Len Moskowitz
		Thanks
			Joe Acosta

chungdan@elaine11.stanford.edu (Zhueng Qi Iao (Daniel)) (02/15/91)

     Kiel neniu mencias, ke Nitiren Daisyo^nin estas c^i tio?
     Why does no one mention, that Nitiren Daisyo^nin is this?
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				*Zhueng* Qi-Iao, Usono (U.S.A.)