mva@prefect.bellcore.com (Madhav Apte) (04/19/91)
Hi Folks what's going on? Is it my site or noone has posted here for a few weeks? Maybe with the departure of Keith Evans no one has any controversial stuff to talk about, eh? Well, here's a mostly serious (but maybe slightly tongue-in-cheek) question. You've all heard the zen quote/koan that goes "when hungry, eat; when tired, sleep", right? Well, if I go to a zen monastery for a retreat or a sesshin, what happens? When I am hungry, I cannot eat. When I am sleepy, I cannot sleep. To make things worse, I have to eat when I may not be hungry, and sleep when I may not be sleepy (well, more like - get up when I may not want to). So, is this not a contradiction? I know what you are thinking. Already, you have some answers. Well, I can think of some sleaze-outs myself (below). But I am interested in what you think. My "out": - It would be great if one could sleep when sleepy and eat when hungry : but since most of us are not truly aware of ourselves, we let our egos/desiring minds take over; we eat/sleep indiscriminately. So FIRST we have to develop the kind of discrimination that allows us to KNOW when we are truly hungry/sleepy and develop the discipline that forces us to eat/sleep at those times. What's more, with that kind of discipline, our body soon gets hungry, oh - only about 3 times a day, say morning, noon and evening. And we sleep mostly from 10 pm to 5 am. So you use the retreat/sesshin to GET to this stage - hence you have to follow a schedule that initially may not suit you. - Madhav mva@maestro.cc.bellcore.com
jwl@mvutd.att.com (James W Lacey) (04/20/91)
In article <1991Apr19.060737.4906@nas.nasa.gov> mva@maestro.bellcore.com (Madhav Apte) writes: >Hi Folks > > what's going on? Is it my site or noone has posted here > for a few weeks? Maybe with the departure of Keith Evans > no one has any controversial stuff to talk about, eh? > > Well, here's a mostly serious (but maybe slightly tongue-in-cheek) > question. You've all heard the zen quote/koan that goes > "when hungry, eat; when tired, sleep", right? > > Well, if I go to a zen monastery for a retreat or a sesshin, > what happens? When I am hungry, I cannot eat. When I am > sleepy, I cannot sleep. To make things worse, I have to eat > when I may not be hungry, and sleep when I may not be sleepy > (well, more like - get up when I may not want to). > > So, is this not a contradiction? I know what you are thinking. > Already, you have some answers. Well, I can think of some > sleaze-outs myself (below). But I am interested in what > you think. [deletions] IMHO, buddhism generally (and probably zen as well) offers the idea of multiple paths. (For example, in the concept of the Greater Vehicle.) A contradiction would exit only if there were "one best way" for everyone and everytime. But people are different, and even the same person changes over time. The freedom of "eat when hungry" is one way; the discipline of a monastery is another. jim my own opinions