skumar@smdvx1.intel.com (Sitanshu Kumar) (06/14/91)
There has been over past many weeks some remarks about J. Krishanmurti
and his teachings. Some of them have come from people who are followers
of some gurus(mostly Indian, or Japanase). As Krishnamurti vehemenently
attacked the idea of gurudom(not the gurus) the author has seen an attempt
to denigrate K by many people. It is one thing to say that one has not
understood what K is saying(if one has humility any one can understand)
and quite another to say he is wrong out of frustation, though it is perfectly
alright to tear apaat what he says using logic. So far the author has not seen
any such logic by any one on the net ot indeed anywhere in the world.(though
I am not a keen reader, I have had the chance to listen to various view point
in last 17 years). A seeker of truth in the ancient land of India first used
logic ( the art of logically arguing is called shastratha) only when logic
is completely exhausted that one can proceed further.
I am outlining below the core of Krishnamurti teachings as I have understood
it. You are free to ask as many questions as you like, and time permitting
I will try to answer them. I hope it benefits the people who have been
previosly unable to understand them. It is completely an on the spot effort,
I am not going to quote from any of his books. Once again it is my understanding.
Core of K's techings.
1. Choiceless awareness.
An individual(here the word is a metaphor) of all the thoughts that arise
in conciousness. At first it can be done by following each thought by
another(metaphor) thought. After some close observation thought becomes
aware of itself (first time reader may not understand this readily).
Awareness of thought as it moves leads to the emptying of the content
of conciousness ( not of factual memory, but psychological memory) and
the begining of meditation.
2. Effortlessness.
At no point one should actively(by using thought) try to do anything,
except watch . There must be no conformity at all to a set of words
spoken words. Of course one should not conforn to the words written
above, e.i. of trying to be effortless.
3. Compassion or Love.
This is the most difficult to enumerate. Without this flower one can not
walk a step on the so called spiritual journey. Vaguley it is the utmost
concern for the well being ( metaphor) of everything.
End Krisnamurti's teachings. (core)
I have also come to know that some of the teachers pretend to be able to
grade others. What an ultimate hypocrisy and confusion. To attempt to
infuse measure in to non measure is absolutely illogical business.( it
can logically be shown by the author in case someone really wants to
know) This Idea is rampant in Christianity( with Mr Christ at the top)
and exist in hinduism and Bhuddism though to a much lesser extent. How
doea any one else know how realized the other is??? It defies all
logic. First be completely logical and then go beyond it. And what
is the need to complile a who's who?? One wonders if this stems
from one own self of inadeqacy of these teachers and followers??
--
----
name: Dr. Dinesh K. Prabhu
address: Eloret Institute, M/S 230-2,
NASA Ames Research Center,radams@cerritos.edu (06/14/91)
[I have edited four lines out of this article. These lines contained my signature which got appended to Sitanshu Kumar's article on J. K. This was due to an oversight on my part. Sorry about the confusion. --Dinesh] >There has been over past many weeks some remarks about J. Krishanmurti >and his teachings. Some of them have come from people who are followers >of some gurus(mostly Indian, or Japanase). As Krishnamurti vehemenently >attacked the idea of gurudom(not the gurus) the author has seen an attempt >to denigrate K by many people. It is one thing to say that one has not I may be one of the ones you are refering to as someone who has been critical of Krishnamurti in a previous post. I have been a long time admirer of J. Krishnamurti - he was a great soul. One cannot dispute with Krishnamurti on his own terms, using his method of conversing and posing questions to the listener. Especially when he was conducting a talk, he would control the conversation and force people to participate on his terms. I have read alot of Krishnamurti and heard parts of many tapes of his, but I see a flaw in his rejecting of gurus and teachers. He seems to say that all gurus just exploit their followers and do little else. This is pure nonsense. There have been many selfless gurus who did nothing but serve others. Did Ramana Maharshi exploit and use his followers to his own selfish and worldly ends? One profound influence Krishnamurti had on me has caused me to reject any authority that seems to exist for its own sake and is self serving. The many rules and exclusive clauses of the various religions has caused me to reach the point where I tell people that I don't belong to any religion but at the same time, I see some truth in all the religions (even though sometimes you really have to dig deep for it :-). Roger Adams radams@cerritos.edu To those in whom love dwells, Cerritos College the whole world is one family. 11110 Alondra Blvd A Hindu Proverb Norwalk, California 90650 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Wheeler <johnw@ready.eng.ready.com> (06/15/91)
****** Dinesh, please post my repsonse to Sitanshu regarding Krisnamurti.
Thank you. *********
In Article 134 of soc.religion.eastern, Sitanshu Kumar wrote:
>> Sitanshu
**johnw
>>...Krishnamurti vehemenently attacked the idea of gurudom...
**This was one of Krishnamurti's pet peeves; yet, as far as I can tell Buddha,
Shankara, Ramana Maharshi, the Ch'an masters, Tibetan masters, Christ, etc.,
all (to the great delight of those associated with them) functioned as
gurus. All of the above were undoubtedly established in highest spiritual
realization and possessed perfect insight into the nature of life. Isn't
it funny how they didn't "vehemently attack" the idea of a guru? (Many
of them had gurus, too!)
>>It is one thing to say that one has not understood what K is saying(if
>>one has humility any one can understand) and quite another to say he is
>>wrong out of frustation..
**Another possibility is that Krishnamurti had some erroneous views about
the nature of life and spirituality. One must be open the logical possibility
that he was wrong; after all, you aren't claiming he is an unfallible
authority, right?
>> 1. Choiceless awareness.
>>
>> An individual(here the word is a metaphor) of all the thoughts that arise
>> in conciousness. At first it can be done by following each thought by
>> another(metaphor) thought. After some close observation thought becomes
>> aware of itself (first time reader may not understand this readily).
>> Awareness of thought as it moves leads to the emptying of the content
>> of conciousness ( not of factual memory, but psychological memory) and
>> the begining of meditation.
** The first two sentences appear garbled and make no sense as written. Perhaps
you could clarify. The third sentence ("thought becomes aware of itself")
is illogical. Thought is by definition an object; one object cannot be
aware of another. Sentence four does not appear to correlate with experience.
As far as I can observe, thoughts arise and pass of themselves without
leaving any content. This happens without any special effort. Also, what's
the significance whether consciousness is empty or full, or partially full?
The notion seems to be that our bondage is caused by the presence of some
unwanted thoughts that obscure our freedom, and that in order to be free we
need to get rid of these thoughts by a special technique called "choiceless
awareness." Any Ch'an master would have laughed himself silly over the idea.
The underlying idea is that we are inherently bound or limited by thought.
This is simply a misunderstanding of the facts. This is why Hui Neng,
himself a fully enlightened Buddha, repudiated all forms of watching the
mind, purifying the contents of thought, and excessive sitting in the
attempt to do such things. Why? Because all such practices are
based on the erroneous notion that we are bound to begin with. With this
built-in limitation, how can they succeed? This is why zazen, at least as
it is usually conceived, is also unproductive.
One more point. The distinction between "factual" and "psychological" memory
seems a bit arbitrary to me. How do you distinguish between them and
how does this relate to freedom?
>>2. Effortlessness.
>>
>> At no point one should actively(by using thought) try to do anything,
>> except watch . There must be no conformity at all to a set of words
>> spoken words. Of course one should not conforn to the words written
>> above, e.i. of trying to be effortless.
**This is rather humorous and gets one into an infinite regression. "Don't
conform to what I say, and don't conform to the fact that I told you
not to conform," etc. At the risk of sounding rather abrupt, let me say
I think the practice of "watching" thoughts is totally useless and has
no spiritual value whatsoever. I know that every Buddha-come-lately and
his brother says "watch thought," but it is a mistaken notion and does
not lead to freedom, in my opinion. Freedom is not at the level of thought
and has nothing to do with the mind at all.
Whenever I see a teacher who is concerned with watching thought, stilling
the mind, holding to one thought, etc. I always take this to be a sign
they have not understood the nature of freedom. True masters invariably
point directly to man's inherent freedom and do not rely on mental
techniques, methods, practices, etc. Hui Neng referred to the practice of
watching the mind as a "disease." For those who were overly concerned
with the mind and imagined it to be an obstacle, Ramana Maharshi used to
say (humorously), "Try to find the mind; you will find it does not exist.
That's the way to 'overcome' it."
Both masters mentioned above invariable pointed to our real nature which
is by nature ever-free. This was one of Krishnamurti's biggest failings:
the fact that he viewed the mind as an obstacle that needed to be
overcome by a technique (i.e. "choiceless awareness"). He missed the
simple, yet profound, fact that from the beginning we have always been
free.
>>3. Compassion or Love.
>>
>> This is the most difficult to enumerate. Without this flower one can not
>> walk a step on the so called spiritual journey. Vaguley it is the utmost
>> concern for the well being ( metaphor) of everything.
>>
**I agree! Although I don't think it's that "difficult to enumerate" or
"vague," for that matter.
>> End Krisnamurti's teachings. (core)
>>
>> I have also come to know that some of the teachers pretend to be able to
>> grade others. What an ultimate hypocrisy and confusion. To attempt to
>> infuse measure in to non measure is absolutely illogical business.( it
>> can logically be shown by the author in case someone really wants to
>> know) This Idea is rampant in Christianity( with Mr Christ at the top)
>> and exist in hinduism and Bhuddism though to a much lesser extent. How
>> doea any one else know how realized the other is??? It defies all
>> logic. First be completely logical and then go beyond it. And what
>> is the need to complile a who's who?? One wonders if this stems
>> from one own self of inadeqacy of these teachers and followers??
**I think, with a little common sense, it is easy to evaluate the level
of realization of those we meet, including famous teachers. This is
a valuable and worthwhile exercise for a spritual seeker. It encourages
us to be clear about our views of spirituality and the various forms
of practice we choose to use to realize our goals. The idea that it is
impossible to tell where others stand spiritually is not correct. You
must use common sense and look at what they believe and how they live
their lives and you can get some idea of their level of insight into
life. Also, can't you tell whether someone is happy or sad? Confused or
at peace? It is not that hard is it?
P.S. Don't take my comments as anything personal. They are simply my own
views on the matter. As those who have read some of my earlier
postings know, I was once a big Krishnamurti fan myself. I read
his books, saw him speak, etc. He was a nice enough old man, I
guess. A little on the serious side, I would say, and loved to listen
to himself talk, but other than that, he seemed decent enough for
an intellectual philosopher. prabhu@nas.nasa.gov (Dinesh K. Prabhu) (06/15/91)
In article <1991Jun14.021730.14602@nas.nasa.gov> radams@cerritos.edu writes: > > [I have edited four lines out of this article. These lines contained my > signature which got appended to Sitanshu Kumar's article on J. K. > This was due to an oversight on my part. Sorry about the confusion. > --Dinesh] > >>There has been over past many weeks some remarks about J. Krishanmurti >>and his teachings. Some of them have come from people who are followers >>of some gurus(mostly Indian, or Japanase). As Krishnamurti vehemenently >>attacked the idea of gurudom(not the gurus) the author has seen an attempt >>to denigrate K by many people. It is one thing to say that one has not > >I may be one of the ones you are refering to as someone who has been >critical of Krishnamurti in a previous post. I have been a long time >admirer of J. Krishnamurti - he was a great soul. One cannot dispute >with Krishnamurti on his own terms, using his method of conversing and >posing questions to the listener. Especially when he was conducting a >talk, he would control the conversation and force people to participate Why did you get forced?? To be exploited is to exploit. Sorry but you dont seem to be putting forward a rational statement. 'K' did not hold a gun to your head did he?? >on his terms. I have read alot of Krishnamurti and heard parts of many >tapes of his, but I see a flaw in his rejecting of gurus and teachers. >He seems to say that all gurus just exploit their followers and do little >else. This is pure nonsense. There have been many selfless gurus who Did 'K' ever say that all gurus are non sense?? As far as I know he attacked the idea of the techer and the taught , one who knows the way to reality and the one who does not. To him there is no way to reality (e.i.truth is a path less land). The teacher and the taught are one from the begining. There is a lot involved in the techer and taught relationship, e.i. conformity, obedience and forced descipline. These are aspects of darkness, a mind that does these things is held in darkness, and how do you reach light through darkness?? He never said which teacher did what, as a matter of fact lot of these so called teachers came to him and confessed that what he was saying was the highest truth.( I personally know of these people) >did nothing but serve others. Did Ramana Maharshi exploit and use his >followers to his own selfish and worldly ends? it is not for another to say. he you want me to make a guess, probably not. >One profound influence Krishnamurti had on me has caused me to reject >any authority that seems to exist for its own sake and is self serving. >The many rules and exclusive clauses of the various religions has caused >me to reach the point where I tell people that I don't belong to any >religion but at the same time, I see some truth in all the religions >(even though sometimes you really have to dig deep for it :-). > > Roger Adams > > radams@cerritos.edu To those in whom love dwells, > Cerritos College the whole world is one family. > 11110 Alondra Blvd A Hindu Proverb > Norwalk, California 90650 > USA >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
skumar@smdvx1.intel.com (Sitanshu Kumar) (06/15/91)
[I managed to mess up again :-). This is a repost of the article wrongly attributed to me (forgot the From: line this time). Sorry -- Dinesh] In article <1991Jun14.021730.14602@nas.nasa.gov> radams@cerritos.edu writes: > > [I have edited four lines out of this article. These lines contained my > signature which got appended to Sitanshu Kumar's article on J. K. > This was due to an oversight on my part. Sorry about the confusion. > --Dinesh] > >>There has been over past many weeks some remarks about J. Krishanmurti >>and his teachings. Some of them have come from people who are followers >>of some gurus(mostly Indian, or Japanase). As Krishnamurti vehemenently >>attacked the idea of gurudom(not the gurus) the author has seen an attempt >>to denigrate K by many people. It is one thing to say that one has not > >I may be one of the ones you are refering to as someone who has been >critical of Krishnamurti in a previous post. I have been a long time >admirer of J. Krishnamurti - he was a great soul. One cannot dispute >with Krishnamurti on his own terms, using his method of conversing and >posing questions to the listener. Especially when he was conducting a >talk, he would control the conversation and force people to participate Why did you get forced?? To be exploited is to exploit. Sorry but you dont seem to be putting forward a rational statement. 'K' did not hold a gun to your head did he?? >on his terms. I have read alot of Krishnamurti and heard parts of many >tapes of his, but I see a flaw in his rejecting of gurus and teachers. >He seems to say that all gurus just exploit their followers and do little >else. This is pure nonsense. There have been many selfless gurus who Did 'K' ever say that all gurus are non sense?? As far as I know he attacked the idea of the techer and the taught , one who knows the way to reality and the one who does not. To him there is no way to reality (e.i.truth is a path less land). The teacher and the taught are one from the begining. There is a lot involved in the techer and taught relationship, e.i. conformity, obedience and forced descipline. These are aspects of darkness, a mind that does these things is held in darkness, and how do you reach light through darkness?? He never said which teacher did what, as a matter of fact lot of these so called teachers came to him and confessed that what he was saying was the highest truth.( I personally know of these people) >did nothing but serve others. Did Ramana Maharshi exploit and use his >followers to his own selfish and worldly ends? it is not for another to say. he you want me to make a guess, probably not. >One profound influence Krishnamurti had on me has caused me to reject >any authority that seems to exist for its own sake and is self serving. >The many rules and exclusive clauses of the various religions has caused >me to reach the point where I tell people that I don't belong to any >religion but at the same time, I see some truth in all the religions >(even though sometimes you really have to dig deep for it :-). > > Roger Adams > > radams@cerritos.edu To those in whom love dwells, > Cerritos College the whole world is one family. > 11110 Alondra Blvd A Hindu Proverb > Norwalk, California 90650 > USA >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
skumar@smdvx1.intel.com (Sitanshu Kumar) (06/15/91)
>****** Dinesh, please post my repsonse to Sitanshu regarding Krisnamurti. > Thank you. ********* > > >In Article 134 of soc.religion.eastern, Sitanshu Kumar wrote: > >>> Sitanshu >**johnw > >>>...Krishnamurti vehemenently attacked the idea of gurudom... > >**This was one of Krishnamurti's pet peeves; yet, as far as I can tell Buddha, > Shankara, Ramana Maharshi, the Ch'an masters, Tibetan masters, Christ, etc., > all (to the great delight of those associated with them) functioned as > gurus. All of the above were undoubtedly established in highest spiritual > realization and possessed perfect insight into the nature of life. Isn't What kind of gurus were they?? did they tell there followers do this and this, and you will become enlightened?? I know about the Buddha rest else I do not know. Is truth relized by depending on authority?? Then it depends on the personal whims and fanccies of all individuals and groups. What is involved in having a guru?? A guru has experienced something ( you may call it enlightenement or rubbish) and want the follower to experience the same thing?? and what is an experience?? a dead memory?? experience is time (or creates time) and through time you want to become timeless?? and who is the experiencer?? is it not memory itself?? do not invent the "self" as the experiencer, if it is really the expereincer than why have these gurus?? why spend money and time in reading books and prostate to someone. How do you know that someone else has perfect insight. Do you really know what perfect insight is?? if you do then why bother about these ghosts from the past. If you dont, then your comment is quite arbitrary is it not ?? > it funny how they didn't "vehemently attack" the idea of a guru? (Many > of them had gurus, too!) why is it funny??? > >>>It is one thing to say that one has not understood what K is saying(if >>>one has humility any one can understand) and quite another to say he is >>>wrong out of frustation.. > >**Another possibility is that Krishnamurti had some erroneous views about > the nature of life and spirituality. One must be open the logical possibility > that he was wrong; after all, you aren't claiming he is an unfallible > authority, right? All right. there are a thosand possibilities. What is one supposed to do, speculate about them?? or toss a die and decide one of them is true?? or is it more logical to examine what any one is saying presently?? and what is wrong and what is right. You may see the sky blue today and decideit is always blue, you may see it red the day after and decide it is either red or blue and continue like this for eternity. That is not intelligence ,is it (or you can keep jumping gurus)?? > >>> 1. Choiceless awareness. >>> >>> An individual(here the word is a metaphor) of all the thoughts that arise >>> in conciousness. At first it can be done by following each thought by >>> another(metaphor) thought. After some close observation thought becomes >>> aware of itself (first time reader may not understand this readily). >>> Awareness of thought as it moves leads to the emptying of the content >>> of conciousness ( not of factual memory, but psychological memory) and >>> the begining of meditation. > >** The first two sentences appear garbled and make no sense as written. Perhaps > you could clarify. The third sentence ("thought becomes aware of itself") > is illogical. Thought is by definition an object; one object cannot be Who has defined thought?? you shankara or the budhha. I do not quite understand that first two sentences are garbled, a spelling mistake or grammatical mistake.Or is it that you have not observed the birth of a thought and death of a thought. That I can understand, if the mind is jumping like a monkey, one may be completely unaware of thought. I do not quite believe this to be the case with any body from birth to adulthood. Even if it is, you can try right away. > aware of another. Sentence four does not appear to correlate with experience. > As far as I can observe, thoughts arise and pass of themselves without > leaving any content. This happens without any special effort. Also, what's > the significance whether consciousness is empty or full, or partially full? > > The notion seems to be that our bondage is caused by the presence of some > unwanted thoughts that obscure our freedom, and that in order to be free we > need to get rid of these thoughts by a special technique called "choiceless > awareness." Any Ch'an master would have laughed himself silly over the idea. > The underlying idea is that we are inherently bound or limited by thought. > This is simply a misunderstanding of the facts. This is why Hui Neng, > himself a fully enlightened Buddha, repudiated all forms of watching the > mind, purifying the contents of thought, and excessive sitting in the > attempt to do such things. Why? Because all such practices are > based on the erroneous notion that we are bound to begin with. With this > built-in limitation, how can they succeed? This is why zazen, at least as > it is usually conceived, is also unproductive. > > One more point. The distinction between "factual" and "psychological" memory > seems a bit arbitrary to me. How do you distinguish between them and > how does this relate to freedom? > >>>2. Effortlessness. >>> >>> At no point one should actively(by using thought) try to do anything, >>> except watch . There must be no conformity at all to a set of words >>> spoken words. Of course one should not conforn to the words written >>> above, e.i. of trying to be effortless. > >**This is rather humorous and gets one into an infinite regression. "Don't > conform to what I say, and don't conform to the fact that I told you Of course it does not. I dont think you understood the first point I made. > not to conform," etc. At the risk of sounding rather abrupt, let me say > I think the practice of "watching" thoughts is totally useless and has > no spiritual value whatsoever. I know that every Buddha-come-lately and Is watching a practice?? then it is not watching. Only watching with a motive could be a practice. Then you are not watching, because you will see only what interests you. That is not choice-lessness. > his brother says "watch thought," but it is a mistaken notion and does > not lead to freedom, in my opinion. Freedom is not at the level of thought > and has nothing to do with the mind at all. whom are you calling bhudhha-come lately?? and do you know what the bhudha himself said?? I hope you do , any way i am going to tell you right away. Beaware O monks. when walking be aware that you are walking, when sitting beaware that you are sitting, when having wild thoughts beaware of those thoughts, beaware of everything. All right Mr Wheeler i hope you get it. I did not want to quote, but you seem to depend on authority al the time. > > Whenever I see a teacher who is concerned with watching thought, stilling > the mind, holding to one thought, etc. I always take this to be a sign > they have not understood the nature of freedom. True masters invariably > point directly to man's inherent freedom and do not rely on mental > techniques, methods, practices, etc. Hui Neng referred to the practice of > watching the mind as a "disease." For those who were overly concerned > with the mind and imagined it to be an obstacle, Ramana Maharshi used to > say (humorously), "Try to find the mind; you will find it does not exist. > That's the way to 'overcome' it." I am sorry, but instead of listening you are caught up in ideas of what someone else has said. Since the some one else is your favourite, you make this statement rather hastily.( I am not saying that your master is wrong or right). Hui Neng or Raman maharishi may be right, but have you done the experiment yourself?? have you carefully observed for your self?? If you have than it does not matter what they said, does it? the thing is before you, is it not. > > Both masters mentioned above invariable pointed to our real nature which > is by nature ever-free. This was one of Krishnamurti's biggest failings: > the fact that he viewed the mind as an obstacle that needed to be > overcome by a technique (i.e. "choiceless awareness"). He missed the > simple, yet profound, fact that from the beginning we have always been > free. If man is always free, or you are free, why do you go to raman maharishi or Hui neng? or why do they speak at all??? I don't think you understand waht they say. > >>>3. Compassion or Love. >>> >>> This is the most difficult to enumerate. Without this flower one can not >>> walk a step on the so called spiritual journey. Vaguley it is the utmost >>> concern for the well being ( metaphor) of everything. >>> > >**I agree! Although I don't think it's that "difficult to enumerate" or > "vague," for that matter. > > >>> End Krisnamurti's teachings. (core) >>> >>> I have also come to know that some of the teachers pretend to be able to >>> grade others. What an ultimate hypocrisy and confusion. To attempt to >>> infuse measure in to non measure is absolutely illogical business.( it >>> can logically be shown by the author in case someone really wants to >>> know) This Idea is rampant in Christianity( with Mr Christ at the top) >>> and exist in hinduism and Bhuddism though to a much lesser extent. How >>> doea any one else know how realized the other is??? It defies all >>> logic. First be completely logical and then go beyond it. And what >>> is the need to complile a who's who?? One wonders if this stems >>> from one own self of inadeqacy of these teachers and followers?? > >**I think, with a little common sense, it is easy to evaluate the level when you say common sense, surely it is the result of an individuals upbringing , is it not?.( many things which are common sense in India are not so here and vice-versa) > of realization of those we meet, including famous teachers. This is > a valuable and worthwhile exercise for a spritual seeker. It encourages > us to be clear about our views of spirituality and the various forms > of practice we choose to use to realize our goals. The idea that it is what kind of goal spirituality can have. I you have a set goal in mind then you have already been there some time or the other, is it not?? so waht do you seek now?? or the goal is totally abstract and therefore of no use. > impossible to tell where others stand spiritually is not correct. You > must use common sense and look at what they believe and how they live > their lives and you can get some idea of their level of insight into what would you look for, external signs?? how would you know somebody's internal state of mind moment by moment?? for a brief time they come before you they may act, or may be in deep delusion about their being enlightened . Is it not that every body is convinced about some idea about themseleves or others?? How is it different from some body's idea that he is enlightened?? (like Mr. john claiming that he is the seventh stage master??) > life. Also, can't you tell whether someone is happy or sad? Confused or > at peace? It is not that hard is it? > > P.S. Don't take my comments as anything personal. They are simply my own > views on the matter. As those who have read some of my earlier > postings know, I was once a big Krishnamurti fan myself. I read > his books, saw him speak, etc. He was a nice enough old man, I > guess. A little on the serious side, I would say, and loved to listen > to himself talk, but other than that, he seemed decent enough for > an intellectual philosopher. These are just images conjured by your mind. They have no relevance to truth. No images have any relevance to truth. You can be a fan of someone one day and be fan of some else the other day. That may depend on the fullfillment of your desires. Is seeking fullfilment of desires any thing to do with truth?? if yes what is it? All desire is the same movement, even the one to seek the highest.
ganjavi@uunet.UU.NET (Ray Ganjavi) (06/15/91)
I enjoyed your article on K. Please post tthe following: I have a compilation of about 60 beautiful quotes by the great educator/author/philosopher, Jiddu Krishnamurti (1895-1986), on meditation. It is 7 double sided 8 1/2 x 11 pages long. It is available to you free of charge. To request it either e-mail me (ganjavi@hplabs!felix) or write to: P.O.Box 2546 Orange, CA 92669-0546 If you want it mailed to you via U.S.Mail please send me two 29-cent stamps; one to cover the copying cost and one to cover the postage. There is no cost to you if you want it e-mailed.