asanders@decwrl.dec.com (Alan Sanders) (06/26/91)
>From where I stand, this discussion has degenerated into
flaming speculation: "An enlightened being doesn't do this,
doesn't do that..."
We don't know any such thing!
Christ said: "I am the way, the truth and the life."
Would someone like to take on the Gospels? That person
would look pretty silly! I am not "blaming" anyone, just
suggesting we stop this racket and *be present*.
-Alanrjp1@ihlpz.att.com (Robert Pietkivitch) (06/26/91)
> From where I stand, this discussion has degenerated into > flaming speculation: "An enlightened being doesn't do this, > doesn't do that..." > > We don't know any such thing! I can't tell what I know because of all the things I don't know. We do not know whether we know or do not know nor whether we do know or do not know, but I can tell anyway, or can I? > Christ said: "I am the way, the truth and the life." Faith said that. Say, did anyone ever catch HER last name?? > Would someone like to take on the Gospels? That person > would look pretty silly! I am not "blaming" anyone, just > suggesting we stop this racket and *be present*. > > -Alan I do not recognize these "Gospels" you speak of. Take them on in what way? Just what are you talking about? Blame? No blame. The Image: Heaven and water go their opposite ways: The image of conflict. Thus in all transactions the superior man carefully considers the beginning. Nine at the top means: Even if by chance a leather belt is bestowed on one, by the end of the morning it will have been snatched away three times. -- rj pietkivitch | "A cautious halt halfway brings good fortune." att!ihlpz!rjp1 | -- The Book of Changes, Hexagram 6
radams@cerritos.edu (06/26/91)
asanders@decwrl.dec.com (Alan Sanders) writes: >From where I stand, this discussion has degenerated into >flaming speculation: "An enlightened being doesn't do this, >doesn't do that..." >We don't know any such thing! >Christ said: "I am the way, the truth and the life." >Would someone like to take on the Gospels? That person >would look pretty silly! I am not "blaming" anyone, just >suggesting we stop this racket and *be present*. > -Alan I knew someone would bring this up so here goes. When Christ made statements such as "I am the way, the truth and the life", he was not referring to himself as a man but to a state of consciousness which was manifesting in him - a Universal consciousness which we might call Christ Consciousness or Krishna Consciousness etc. or the universal omnipresent consciousness of God within creation. To paraphrase another saying of Christ: only through me can you go to the Father: this refers to the idea that Christ Consciousness must be established in you first before you can attain Cosmic Consciousness which is the consciousness of God beyond creation as well as in creation. Now whether you agree with this or not is not my problem but Christ was not bragging about himself, he was showing the way for others to follow in His footsteps. Krishna often spoke in similar terms and the same can be said of Him also. Christ and Krishna and Buddha were not cosmic exceptions; they wanted us to know that everyone can be free or illumined as they were. I also agree with a statement that Kumar made about masters that they will refer to their being illumined on occasion. Roger Adams radams@cerritos.edu To those in whom love dwells, Cerritos College the whole world is one family. 11110 Alondra Blvd A Hindu Proverb Norwalk, California 90650 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
simmonds@demon.siemens.com (Tom Simmonds) (06/27/91)
> adobe!!asanders@decwrl.dec.com (Alan Sanders) >Subject: Seven Stages... >>From where I stand, this discussion has degenerated into >flaming speculation: "An enlightened being doesn't do this, >doesn't do that..." > >We don't know any such thing! > >Christ said: "I am the way, the truth and the life." Since I know something of the Christian Gospels, having been schooled in them in my youth, I'd like to comment on this. I think what I have to say is relevant to this newsgroup because eastern religion has given me an insight into the Gospels that I didn't get from my Christian teachers. Much of what is supposed to have been said by Jesus is remarkably similar to the teachings of the Upanishads; so much so that it makes me wonder if he was exposed to eastern religion at some unrecorded time in his life. Please don't interpret this as an attempt to prostelytize. I am not a member of any Christian church, nor do I recommend that anyone should become a Christian. I think that, when Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life", he was teaching by example. He was demonstrating the way to find God, ie. to BE IT. He also said "YOU are the light of the world." Another quote from the same book (the Gospel of John) goes like this: "All things were made by Him [God], and without him was nothing made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men...Which Light is the True Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world...He [the Light, God, Life] was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But to them that received him, he gave the power to become the sons of God." That passage, and quite a few others, would fit quite compatibly in the Upanishads. When Jesus said "I am the way...", he was speaking from the point of view of one who has realized his identity as Reality or Life itself. He was *not* saying that he was the best and only guru. He was coming from a place beyond such petite egoism. Unfortunately, the depth and significance of what Jesus taught seem to have been lost to most of the Christians over the centuries. They have become fixated on the pointing finger, and have forgotten how to look at what it points to. They assume that Jesus was speaking from the same limited egoism that is their own viewpoint, and therefore, they interpret his words in the "best and only guru" sense. In my opinion, it is one of the greatest tradgedies in history. -- )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) (( (( . ((( ( (((((( (((( ((( ( ((( ( ((( . ((( ( ((( , ((( (((((( ))) )))) ))) ) ) ))))))) ))) ))) ) ) ))) ) ) ))) ))) ) ))) )))) ))))) ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun26.054352.26444@nas.nasa.gov>, radams@cerritos.edu writes: > > I knew someone would bring this up so here goes. When Christ made > statements such as "I am the way, the truth and the life", he was > not referring to himself as a man but to a state of consciousness > which was manifesting in him - a Universal consciousness which we might > call Christ Consciousness or Krishna Consciousness etc. or the universal > omnipresent consciousness of God within creation. To paraphrase another > saying of Christ: only through me can you go to the Father: this refers > to the idea that Christ Consciousness must be established in you first > before you can attain Cosmic Consciousness which is the consciousness of > God beyond creation as well as in creation. i like this explanation and agree with it. but the problem remains with religions that base themselves on the bible: can anyone really know exactly what the heck was being talked about? or what was really meant? it's all the difference between a living faith and a book faith. the book faith is by nature filtered through somebody's eyes. at least you can ask a guru: "say what? pass that one by me one more time please." ando. -\|/- I struck five notes in the middle of the night, and remembered my soul. --Al Gromer Khan -/|\-