dave@rlgvax.UUCP (Dave Maxey) (10/21/83)
Our office dictionary (Webster's Ninth NEW Collegiate Dictionary) also adds
these definitions:
2hack n 1: an implement for hacking
3hack n 3: one who forfeits individual freedom or professional integrity
in exchange for wages or other assured reward; esp: a writer who works
mainly for hire.
4hack vt 1: to make trite and commonplace by frequent and indiscriminate
use.
5hack adj 1: working for hire esp. with loose or easy professional standards.
Hmmmm. I believe I also prefer words such as were mentioned in the foregoing
article: "craft" and "engineer", but tell me please... what ever happened to:
Programmer
?
- Dave Maxey (alias tbm)
{seismo,mcnc,brl-bmd,allegra}!rlgvax!daveshebs@utah-cs.UUCP (Stanley Shebs) (10/23/83)
There are at least two reasons for using words other than "programmer" or "engineer" etc. The first is that there are many flavors of programming and programmers. The Un*x wizard who fixes obscure uucp bugs with three carefully chosen commands is different from the grad student that works all night to produce something that barely works is different from the software engineer that writes more incorrect documentation than code is different from the RPG programmer that still has trouble with the basic concepts. (whew!) Having worked in several different kinds of programming situations, I can say that referring to all of the different flavors as "programmers" is a gross overgeneralization. I don't have any real problems with "craftsman", except that many research scientists do a lot of theory testing by constructing programs. And as for "engineering", well, I once worked in a software development environment that the DoD considered one of the best in aerospace, and it was a far cry from real engineering, and a long ways down from typical Un*x hacking, maligned as that hacking may be. I won't go into details, but just let me say that I'm glad the cruise missiles won't be carrying people... stan the l.h. utah-cs!shebs
barmar@mit-eddie.UUCP (Barry Margolin) (10/25/83)
From: dave@rlgvax.UUCP (Dave Maxey) Newsgroups: net.followup Subject: Re: "Hack" is a sacred word? Message-ID: <1313@rlgvax.UUCP> Date: Fri, 21-Oct-83 02:22:33 EDT Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1313 Posted: Fri Oct 21 02:22:33 1983 Date-Received: Sat, 22-Oct-83 01:56:32 EDT References: <114@ccieng6.UUCP> Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA Lines: 20 > ... but tell me please... what ever happened to: > > Programmer The problem with "programmer" is that it is much too general. In my father's company's DP department there is a guy who learned COBOL at one of those places that advertises "you too can be a computer technician, or just look like one...". HE is a programmer, but he is not dedicated to the art of programming. He would not stay up for 36 hours straight in order to finish a program. He is not a member of that elite known as "computer hackers". Many people have recently pointed out that the meaning of a word is the way it is used by a large segment of the population. While I agree with this in principle, there is obviously something wrong which is making us feel that the word "hacker" is being misused by a large segment of the population. I think a good analogy is some homonyms which are often iinterchanged, such as "their" and "there"; just because half of the times I see these words they are misused doesn't mean that they are interchangeable. Perhaps the problem with "hacker" is that there are two large segments of the population, each with conflicting definitions, and some concensus will have to be reached at some point. Or maybe it is a problem of misinformation: realize that to most lay people, this was a new word when the media began using it to describe the breakin artists, so the lay people just assumed the media's definition, without realizing that they were being misinformed. Maybe this is how new words go from being jargon to real words, but I think something got lost in the translation. -- Barry Margolin ARPA: barmar@MIT-Multics UUCP: ..!genrad!mit-eddie!barmar
smb@ulysses.UUCP (10/26/83)
At ACM '83, almost everyone who used the word "hacker" meant "those juvenile delinquents in Milwaukee, etc." It's probably too late to reclaim the word....
stanwyck@ihuxr.UUCP (10/27/83)
Ok. So why the big hassle over "hacker"? If the rest of the world wants to
use some other meaning, and it seems it does, then we can pick another word
to express our meaning.
Here we tend to refer to the very knowledgeable as "gurus" (singular "guru").
This is a word that could be extended to the diligent and foolish ones who
work 36 hours straight, introducing more bugs than they fix, who presently
consider themselves hackers.
Actually, my experiance has been that those who really know their machines
have no need or desire to spend 24+ hours at the keyboard. It is only those
who are more interested in messing all the other users up that spend so many
consecutive hours at the terminal. 99.9% or more of those who spend such
lengthy periods of time at the terminal end up putting more bugs inthe system
than anything else.
So let's call the intelligent experts "gurus", and call the system breakers
(whether break-in and ruin, or ruin by bug introduction) "hackers".
Don Stanwyck ihnp4!ihuxr!stanwyck
p.s. I don't consider myself either, but I am working on "guru". I have
no desire to be "hacker".warren@ihnss.UUCP (10/28/83)
May I suggest a constructive alternative. How about "Software Artist" as an alternative to hacker. It suggests someone who is involved in a mysterious creative activity with the following properties: 1) Frequently it's done for sheer enjoyment, rather than profit. 2) It's persued by some people as an obsession, rather than a rational choice. 3) The product is evaluated in terms of unmeasurable esthetic beauty, rather than an absolute standards. This to me fits very well with the image of a computer hacker. (Someone who persues computing for the joy of it, NOT the infantile/criminal element taking pot-shots at data banks). Probably, the term hacker will survive forever in our jargon, whether the public puts the right meaning on it or not, but If we want people who enjoy computing to be regarded in a favorable light, we better come up with a term that isn't tied to nerds, crooks, or other public undesirables. -- }sOS?fzo~~n{~W~O~;;3?=u~_~=9?{umo~g{om~u}gnu}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}69s{umo~f{s:9y:>s.signy~uz>~/n9/w}zzun/.signy~uzu Warren Montgomery ihnss!warren IH x2494 }9:s~~n{~W~O~;;3?=u~=9?{umo~g{om~u}gnu}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}y~~~}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}y~~~}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}y~~~}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}y~~~}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}:3}>s~s[>}>s}sOS?g{o~>s~sZ>}>s}sOS?g{~n{~W~O~;;3?=u~_~=9?{umo~g{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~_~=9?{umo~g{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~_~=9?{umo~g{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~=9?{umg{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~=9?{umg{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~=9?{umg{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~={umg{om~u}gnu}}}}}3?=u~={umg{om~u}gn
trb@masscomp.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum) (11/01/83)
[Once again, trb enters red-faced and screaming into the fray...] Software Artist? Computist? Guru? Wizard? Lord High Executioner? Hackro-American? Foo! I'm not going to forsake the good name of hacker just because some ignorant losers in the mass media abuse it. The people who are suggesting that we change our chosen title obviously don't have pride in it. Where I come from, hackers were respected. Young people aspired to be hackers. They respected hackers. You didn't call yourself a hacker, you were called a hacker. How dare you belittle the title. If you don't want to be called a hacker, that's perfectly fine with me. Just don't go defaming hackers with your inconsideration. I hack and I'm proud. Hack is beautiful. Andy Tannenbaum Masscomp Inc Littleton MA (617) 486-9581
fair@dual.UUCP (Erik E. Fair) (11/03/83)
The reason that the misuse of this word is causing such consternation among
the network community is that many of the wizards out there consider themselves
to be `hackers', and it pains them (and me!) to see the word used to refer to
system security breakers and other malicious computer types. It would appear
that the net community has (mostly) decided that the word has positive
connotations (expertise, ability, etc...) and the news media are using it
in a negative context.
OK, in the spirit of netwide consensus, does anyone agree with me?
a long time computer hacker,
Erik E. Fair {ucbvax,amd70,zehntel,unisoft}!dual!fair
Dual Systems Corporation, Berkeley, California