[net.cse] CS students who aren't exposed to U*X

eugene@ames.UUCP (Eugene Miya) (09/10/84)

[leq: "I'm looking for the guy with all the dimes." Fred Blaise]

Flame on?

I cannot believe it.  My Branch of my organization just hired three
people in a row with CS degrees (Master's as well as BS) but without any
exposure to U*X!  The first had Univac expierence, the second (with a Master's)
has IBM experience, and the third, I haven't asked yet.  I met a
CS masters student in LA several years ago who had not exposure to compilers,
operating systems (much less U*X), or any language other than FORTRAN or COBOL.

Is our community so closed that major portions are just gapping holes?
I know the net does not reach Japan [A friend administers several sites in
Korea].

--eugene miya
  NASA Ames Res. Ctr.
  {hplabs,dual,hao,vortex}!ames!aurora!eugene
  emiya@ames-vmsb.ARPA

ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (09/11/84)

Gene,

	While I am an UNIX lover as much as anyone else, I am not going
to fault anyone's CS education if they haven't had UNIX experience.  Good
CS people can adapt to nearly anything (as I had to adapt to UNIX).  But,
they should have come across it in their cultural experiences (such as an
operating systems or architectures course with case studies).

What kind of school lets you have a B.S. in Computer Science without
having taken courses in the design (not just the use) of compilers
and operating systems.  This class of education sounds more like the
Close Cover Before Striking School of Data Processing and Heavy Equipment
Operation.

-Ron

abc@brl-tgr.ARPA (Brint Cooper ) (09/12/84)

>I cannot believe it.  My Branch of my organization just hired three
>people in a row with CS degrees (Master's as well as BS) but without any
>exposure to U*X!  The first had Univac expierence, the second (with a Master's)
>has IBM experience, and the third, I haven't asked yet.  I met a
>CS masters student in LA several years ago who had not exposure to compilers,
>operating systems (much less U*X), or any language other than FORTRAN or COBOL.

>Is our community so closed that major portions are just gapping holes?
>I know the net does not reach Japan [A friend administers several sites in
>Korea].

>--eugene miya
 
You'll be interested in:  "New Computer-Science Accrediting Plan is
Assailed by Liberal-Arts Educators," in The Chronicle of Higher
Education, July 13, 1984, vol XXVIII #16 which describes the plans of
IEEE and ACM jointly to accredit CS curricula in order to remove
deficiencies of which you speak.  Unfortunately, many CS departments
reside in schools of Arts & Science (rather than of Engineering) within
their universities and A&S tend to limit more strictly the number of
courses one takes in ones major.  Some incredible academic abuses are
described (such as the CS curriculum that offers a BA in CS while having
only 2 CS courses:  FORTRAN and COBOL!).

Brint
<abc@brl.arpa)

scott@opus.UUCP (Scott Wiesner) (09/12/84)

Well, at Purdue, you can't just be a CS student.  Purdue has four
options within the CS major:
	General			-- aimed at those going on to grad school
	Opsys and Prog Langs 	-- probably better than the above
	Scientific		-- heavily oriented toward math (Stat, etc)
	Information Systems	-- the option you're flaming about

I was in the Opsys option.  As an undergrad, I had theory, compiler, and
operating system courses.  Those who were in the info systems option took
Cobol and Database courses.  We all started with the same four course base
(Mostly Pascal programming) but then branched out.  

I see two possible reasons for your problem.  First, the student screwed up
in his/her course selection.  Given his background, he never should have
been interviewing for the kind of job he apparently got.  Second, whoever
hired him didn't look at his school record.  (more on this below)

Now that you've got these people, be nice to them.  They wanted to work
at your company, or they wouldn't have taken the job.  Assume they're 
bright, and that they want to learn all these things they don't know.
Whoever was responsible for hiring them must have seen a lot of potential
in these people, or they wouldn't be there in the first place.

-- 

Scott Wiesner
{allegra, ucbvax, cornell}!nbires!scott