[net.cse] Teaching

mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (03/08/86)

In article <11577@watnot.UUCP> jjboritz@watnot.UUCP (Jim Boritz) writes:

>Asides from all this marks cannot be assigned simply upon the appearance
>of a program.  For one thing marks must be assigned consistently.  In 
>order to assign marks consistently the marking process must become somewhat
>mechanized.  This leaves you with a big problem when someone writes a 
>bunch of crap for a program and then asks you to try to find the problem
>when it doesn't work.  After pouring over this persons spaghetti for twenty
>minutes trying to wrap your mind around logic which has been reversed three
>times, all you find is a missing semi-colon.

>At the end of it all you are still forced to give marks out for the parts 
>that worked.

Au contraire.  When I graded programs in the elementary courses, I gave out
only 50% of the points on functionality.  Everything else was on style.  You
had to have meaningful comments, you had to format the code in a certain
way, and you had to make the stuff generally legible.  I also took points
off for incredibly convoluted code; here at UMCP we want people to write
elegant and easily comprehensible code first, then worry about squeezing
every last bit of performance out of it.  (My definition of incredibly
convoluted code was anything I couldn't follow; there's no excuse for
someone in a freshman level course writing code that a reasonably
intelligent grad student can't follow.)

In my opinion, you can't hammer enough on style.

C. Wingate

brian@ut-sally.UUCP (Brian H. Powell) (03/08/86)

In article <148@umcp-cs.UUCP>, mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) writes:
>  When I graded programs in the elementary courses, I gave out
> only 50% of the points on functionality.  Everything else was on style.
[... discussion on style.]
> 
> In my opinion, you can't hammer enough on style.
> 
> C. Wingate

     If you don't mind flunking a lot of people, or curving a lot.

     I agree with Charley that IN ELEMENTARY (e.g., freshman/sophomore)
COURSES, style is more important than functionality.
     I used to grade really tough on style.  It helped get better style out
of the students, but at the expense of grades (therefore at the expense of
a student's enthusiasm and motivation.)  You can bring their style up to a
certain almost-acceptable level, but after that, they feel like you're nit-
picking.  (i.e., they felt they just couldn't please me, no matter what they
did.)
     After a few semesters, I decided to lighten up on the points taken off.
I still used lots and lots of red ink pointing out bad style.  I still pointed
out bad style in class.  (displaying a bad program in front of the whole
class.  embarrasing...)  The students worked to get the style better.
     I guess if you miss 50 out of 100 because of style, you get discouraged.
If you miss 5 or 10 out of 100, you don't; you work to get those last 5 or
10 points.  BUT, you still have to verbally impress the importance of style
on them.

Brian H. Powell
		UUCP:	{ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!brian
		ARPA:	brian@sally.UTEXAS.EDU

avolio@decuac.UUCP (03/08/86)

In article <148@umcp-cs.UUCP>, mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) writes:
> In article <11577@watnot.UUCP> jjboritz@watnot.UUCP (Jim Boritz) writes:
> 
> >Asides from all this marks cannot be assigned simply upon the appearance
> >of a program.  For one thing marks must be assigned consistently.  In 
> Au contraire.  When I graded programs in the elementary courses, I gave out
> only 50% of the points on functionality.  Everything else was on style.  ...

I agree with Charley (Charley, is this historic!? :-)).  When I taught
I made it clear that part of the grade was on style and part of that
was structure.  I told them -- a bit facetiously -- that if I tacked
it on the wall, stood back 5 feet, and it looked good (indentation,
etc.) that was half the battle.

You can teach style!  You can grade on style!  I'd rather have given
to me a program that only worked half the time but that was written
with 'style.'  It is much easier to fix than a program that works 99%
of the time, but is unreadable.-- 
Fred @ DEC Ultrix Applications Center
UUCP: {decvax,seismo,cbosgd}!decuac!avolio       INET: avolio@decuac.DEC.COM

rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) (03/09/86)

In article <4385@ut-sally.UUCP> brian@ut-sally.UUCP (Brian H. Powell) writes:
>In article <148@umcp-cs.UUCP>, mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) writes:
>>  When I graded programs in the elementary courses, I gave out
>> only 50% of the points on functionality.  Everything else was on style.
>[... discussion on style.]
>> 
>> In my opinion, you can't hammer enough on style.
>
>     If you don't mind flunking a lot of people, or curving a lot.
>
>     I agree with Charley that IN ELEMENTARY (e.g., freshman/sophomore)
>COURSES, style is more important than functionality.
>     I used to grade really tough on style.  It helped get better style out
>of the students, but at the expense of grades (therefore at the expense of
>a student's enthusiasm and motivation.)  You can bring their style up to a
>certain almost-acceptable level, but after that, they feel like you're nit-
>picking.  (i.e., they felt they just couldn't please me, no matter what they
>did.)

Agreed, my profs used a lot more red ink on the papers than in the grade book
for bad style (or would give you another chance to clean it up if it looked
like you were really trying).  But some of the people in my class were so,
well, STUPID!

Prof: "All Pascal programs turned in to me MUST be run through
	<DEC pascal beautifier program> before you turn them in or I
	will not grade them."

There were some students who turned in their 5th or 6th assignment AGAIN
without running them through the beautifier.  I think at that point he
should have failed them on the assignments -- I sure wouldn't want to
think that I was passing students like that through my class to go out
and work in the job market!  What if some of them started coding military
applications *shudder*?
-- 

The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291)
alias: Curtis Jackson	...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj
			...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj