[comp.dcom.sys.cisco] Bug in cisco bridging?

HANK@BARILVM.BITNET (Hank Nussbacher) (08/19/90)

I have defined two ciscos (8.1(14)) each with bridging between the
the two of them as well as routing.  I have two parallel 19.2kb lines
between the two of them defined in a circuit group so as to perform
load balancing.  I open a LAT connection from a Decserver 200 over to
a Vaxstation 3100 and start typing a file.  The output is all being bridged.
When I remove one of the lines physically from the router, the connection
dies between the Decserver and the Vaxstation.  This does not happen
when I do a connect from one Vax station to another (using routing rather
than bridging) and removing one of the cables (physically).
 
If I do not have the 2 lines defined as a circuit group then the connection
does immediately.  If it is defined within a circuit group, the connection
can either disconnect immediately if the line I disconnect is the line
that is being transmitted on or it can disconnect in 10-15 seconds if
the line I am transmitting on (serial 0) is still connected but the
bridge at the other side is transmitting on serial 1 which is now
disconnected.
 
It may just be that I am don't understand circuit load balancing enough
but I think this is a bug.  Anyone seen this?
 
Thanks,
Hank

lougheed@cisco.com (08/20/90)

Hank -

From your message I am unable to ascertain if you have a cisco problem or
not.  LAT is notoriously delay sensitive; its timers may be expiring before
the cisco spanning tree timers are kicking in.  After your connection
breaks, are you able to re-establish a connection?  If so, this would
indicate either a super-sensitive LAT, a slow cisco, or something else.  It
would be helpful if you experimented a bit more along these lines and
communicated your results to the "customer-service@cisco.com" mailing list.
It would help if you included configurations and information on the
bandwidth of the serial lines.

As for the IEEE spanning tree protocol, yes, 8.1(14) has some problems in
that regard.  There is the serial line crash you discovered, as well
incorrect multicast addresses.  These problems have been resolved in the
current field release, 8.1(19).

Kirk Lougheed
cisco

SHERWOOD@AC.DAL.CA (John Sherwood) (08/21/90)

Hank:
 
>I have defined two ciscos (8.1(14)) each with bridging between the
>the two of them as well as routing.  I have two parallel 19.2kb lines
>between the two of them defined in a circuit group so as to perform
>load balancing.  I open a LAT connection from a Decserver 200 over to
>a Vaxstation 3100 and start typing a file.  The output is all being bridged.
>When I remove one of the lines physically from the router, the connection
>dies between the Decserver and the Vaxstation.
 
LAT is a very time-sensitive protocol. I would not be surprised to find
it will not work on a single 19.2k link. I am surprised that you can get it
to work at all even with 2 links sharing the load. Even minor delays
in packet delivery can give LAT heartburn.
 
>  This does not happen
>when I do a connect from one Vax station to another (using routing rather
>than bridging) and removing one of the cables (physically).
 
I am guessing that you are using DECnet CTERM rather than LAT. CTERM
(ie. $SET HOST xxxx) should work with no problems over slow links; we run
it at 4800 regularly.
 
I would try switching to CTERM as the terminal protocol and see if your
problems go away.
 
Cheers
 
John Sherwood
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova Scotia
 
sherwood@ac.dal.ca.

dss@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Don Salvin) (08/22/90)

Newsgroups: comp.dcom.sys.cisco
Subject: Re: Bug in cisco bridging?
Summary: 
References: <24936@boulder.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: 
Reply-To: dss@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Don Salvin)
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Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh, Comp & Info Services
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In article <24936@boulder.Colorado.EDU> SHERWOOD@AC.DAL.CA (John Sherwood) writes:
>Hank:
> 
>>I have defined two ciscos (8.1(14)) each with bridging between the

           [stuff deleted...]

>>dies between the Decserver and the Vaxstation.
> 
>LAT is a very time-sensitive protocol. I would not be surprised to find
>it will not work on a single 19.2k link. I am surprised that you can get it
>to work at all even with 2 links sharing the load. Even minor delays
>in packet delivery can give LAT heartburn.

It is true that the DEFAULT timers provided with the DECserver 200's
make them quite sensitive to "minor" delays in the network. However,
they are parameters in the server that are settable. At our site we run
MANy servers, some of them running over slow, crowded links, and have no
problems. This is admittedly a pain to administer in a large network,
but we have written tools to make it easier for us. The timers you want
to set are RETRANSMIT LIMIT and KEEPALIVE TIMER. We use RETRANSMIT
LIMIT=60 and KEEPALIVE TIMER=180 .

>>  This does not happen
>>when I do a connect from one Vax station to another (using routing rather
>>than bridging) and removing one of the cables (physically).> 
>I am guessing that you are using DECnet CTERM rather than LAT. CTERM
>(ie. $SET HOST xxxx) should work with no problems over slow links; we run
>it at 4800 regularly.
> 
>I would try switching to CTERM as the terminal protocol and see if your
>problems go away.

I would try fixing the timers first, as LAT is more efficient in its use
of network bandwidth, something I would be concerned about, especially
over slow links. It also provides better functionality as a terminal
protocol than CTERM.

>Cheers
> 
>John Sherwood
>Dalhousie University
>Halifax, Nova Scotia
> 
>sherwood@ac.dal.ca.

Don Salvin
Data Comm Manager, University of Pittsburgh
dss@pitt.edu