[comp.dcom.sys.cisco] Partial subnetting

cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) (05/14/91)

We have a class B address (137.205.0.0) for the University.  Currently the
whole campus is running without subnets, with bridges between each department
and the backbone, but we allocated the numbers such that we could later give
each department its own subnet, and change the bridges for routers should it
become necessary.

We now have our first department that actually wants to be split off with a
router, and I realise that I don't understand how it works at all.  Here was
the plan (internet address/netmask):

			    137.205.0.0/0xffff0000
				      |
				      |
			 ----------------------------
			 |                          |
		      Bridge			 Router
			 |  			    |
              137.205.232.0/0xffff0000	 137.205.176.0/0xfffffc00

But the Cisco router we had on trial won't let you set different netmasks on
its two interfaces "in the current implementation".  Does anyone know if this
is likely to change ?

A nearby book calls what we are trying to do an "illegal" setup, and says it
is "recommended" to have the same netmask throughout the network.

It seems that to make this work the routing tables on the Unix hosts ought to
have a netmask associated with each entry, but it's not there.  When I tried
to add a route to such a gateway the machine lost contact with the entire
world.  (I still don't understand this, if the machine was just picking the
wrong route and sending all packets to the router, why didn't the router just
forward them to the correct machine ?)

Is this setup not supposed to work ?  Why not ?  It seems like an obvious
application (so obvious that I just assumed it was going to work without
really sitting down and thinking about it).  We don't want to have to subnet
the entire University just yet, but it would be nice to keep our options open.

Cheers,

Rob
-- 
UUCP:   ...!mcsun!ukc!warwick!cudcv	PHONE:  +44 203 523037
JANET:  cudcv@uk.ac.warwick             INET:   cudcv@warwick.ac.uk
Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England

lars@spectrum.CMC.COM (Lars Poulsen) (05/17/91)

In article <=~P_0Q&@warwick.ac.uk> cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes:
>We have a class B address (137.205.0.0) for the University.  Currently the
>whole campus is running without subnets, with bridges between each department
>and the backbone, but we allocated the numbers such that we could later give
>each department its own subnet, and change the bridges for routers should it
>become necessary.
>
>... our first department ... actually wants to be split off with a router,
>...  Here was the plan (internet address/netmask):
>
>			    137.205.0.0/0xffff0000
>				      |
>				      |
>			 ----------------------------
>			 |                          |
>		      Bridge			 Router
>			 |  			    |
>              137.205.232.0/0xffff0000	 137.205.176.0/0xfffffc00
>
>It seems that to make this work the routing tables on the Unix hosts ought to
>have a netmask associated with each entry, but it's not there.

Briefly: Yes, it will not work, for the reason stated. The next
generation of IP routers will keep masks with routes at all times, but
the routing protocol software to distribute and manage such routes is
still not frozen solid enough to give to the unwashed masses (OSPF-2 is
in draft, and there is still a vocal minority that insists that "dual
IS-IS" MUST be supported).

Universally masked routes will also resolve the other thing that
"intuitively ought to work": Disjointed subnets.
-- 
/ Lars Poulsen, SMTS Software Engineer
  CMC Rockwell  lars@CMC.COM

kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz) (05/20/91)

cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes:

>A nearby book calls what we are trying to do an "illegal" setup, and says it
>is "recommended" to have the same netmask throughout the network.

Its not illegal, but its not supported by just about anything yet.

However, support for this isn't as hard as was implied by a previous
response - routers do need to keep the network mask with every route,
but its not essential to use a routing protocol that transmits masks,
RIP can cope in this kind of evnironment just fine (and if RIP does,
so will just about anything else reasonable - just leave out EGP).

What a new routing protocol is needed for is the ability to assign the
subet masks in any random fashion - but is you're willing to assign
netmasks, and net numbers, in a structured fashion with respect to the
physical topology of the net, then it will all work just fine.  That
restriction is typically not a problem at all in most environments, esp
where you have a backbone with a wide subnet mask, and spur nets with
narrow masks.

If only you could find routers to support it - its not difficult, masks
in the routing table, and a little proxy ARP is all that's required.

kre