steffan@pro-angmar.UUCP (Steven Mesnick) (03/25/90)
Okay, I'm not a computer-person at all, just a user with a //e, but this talk of II-vs.-Mac support really has me amused. Sure, there's a modicum of support for the II -- *IF* by II you mean IIgs. The GS is a whole different universe to a IIe user. Some years ago, when my II+ developed problems, I decided to buy a new IIe. This was when the 128K "platinum" IIe's had just come out. But could I find one? No way. In fact I was actually LAUGHED AT by a couple of dealers, who all wanted to sell me a Mac, or a GS. When I explained that I had a nice comfortable bunch of peripherals and software and just wanted a new stripped IIe, I was told that they were only selling them to schools...in lots of a gross, I imagine. And there is *NO*, I mean *NO* support in software or hardware for a pre-GS Apple II machine, with the possible exception of Applied Engineering, God bless 'em. (They still sell 16K cards for Pluses!) Apple Computer doesn't want to acknowledge that there are still IIe's out there; neither do the magazines. What good are Finder tricks and NDA's and CDA's and GS/OS utilities to a bloke like me? You call *that* II-series support? Steve Mesnick pro-angmar!steffan@alphalpha.com
rhood@pro-gsplus.cts.com (Robert Hood) (03/28/90)
In-Reply-To: message from steffan@pro-angmar.UUCP > And there is *NO*, I mean *NO* support in software or hardware for a pre-GS > Apple II machine, with the possible exception of Applied Engineering, God > bless 'em. And people wonder why I develop software in 6502 assembly, instead of 65C02 or 65816. The reason is that I KNOW people with 6502 processors. People who haven't gotten above a Revision A motherboard for their //e. I used to BE one of those people. Now I have a Laser 128EX and am angry at Laser for not/ providing a way to upgrade to an EX/2 - but that's a different can o' worms. I realize that, to program for an Apple 8-bit, one sometimes has to assume obsolete hardware is in place. I get upset when I see all this snazzy stuff for the GS and the same old crap for the 8-bits. That's why I like Andy Nicholas, Andy McFadden, and all the other Shareware, Freeware, and commercial authors for the II family. These guys know that the II has a great user base. They know that the II is capable of a lot more than some people give it credit for. When I look at an Apple II, I see a "kid" that can do anything - if someone'll put some time into it. When I look at a GS, I see something with more potential. However, just because the old 8-bits aren't as spiffy and new as the GS or the Mac-of-the-month is no reason to abandon them! Right now, I'm working on software to make pull-down menu programs easy to write - for an Apple 8-bit equipped with 128K, a 65C02, and 80 columns. I originally was going to do it for a 64K 6502 Apple, but decided that 80 columns would be nice for menus, and memory could get cramped otherwise. Why this project? Because I think it's a good idea that might spark some development.... I just wish there were more people that thought so. Robert Hood - programmer ProLine address: pro-gsplus!rhood
stephens@latcs1.oz.au (Philip J Stephens) (03/28/90)
In article <1988@crash.cts.com>, rhood@pro-gsplus.cts.com (Robert Hood) writes: > In-Reply-To: message from steffan@pro-angmar.UUCP > > > And there is *NO*, I mean *NO* support in software or hardware for a pre-GS > > Apple II machine, with the possible exception of Applied Engineering, God > > bless 'em. > > And people wonder why I develop software in 6502 assembly, instead of 65C02 or > 65816. The reason is that I KNOW people with 6502 processors...That's why I > like Andy Nicholas, Andy McFadden, and all the other Shareware, Freeware, and > commercial authors for the II family. These guys know that the II has a > great user base. They know that the II is capable of a lot more than some > people give it credit for...just because the old 8-bits aren't as spiffy and > new as the GS or the Mac-of-the-month is no reason to abandon them! > > I just wish there were more people that thought so. Well, you're not alone. I've spent many years writing programs for my Apple ][+, attempting to push this 'antique' to it's limit. People would be amazed at just how far it can bend! It may consist of out-dated hardware, but at least I could _build_ one of these babies if I wanted to! And the simplicity of the hardware makes programming the Apple a breeze. Quite simply, I enjoy making my ][+ do things people would consider 'impossible' or 'not worth the effort'. The truth is, it _is_ worth the effort. There are users out there that _want_ their Apple to do the things that 'any other computer can do', rather than spend money on a fancy machine. Why throw away a perfectly reasonable computer like an Apple ][+, //e or //c, when it can do many of the things the average computer user is looking for? You can pick up one of these machines for a song nowdays; it's a great investment. I am a poor University student who doesn't imagine being able to afford even an Amiga 500 within the next 2 years! I bought my Apple ][+ almost 5 years ago, and it's still alive and kicking. The number of diskettes full of my _own_ software outstrips the number of commerically available software products in my collection! I was writing hi-res arcade games in 6502 assembly language in year 11. I've written numerous utilities, including an Applesoft renumberer, and a transparent character generator (my pride and joy) that is _fully_ compatible with _any_ Applesoft program that uses the text screen and DOS 3.3 - both in 6502 assembly language. I've spent hours disassembling the code from commerical programs to see how they tick. I've written an adventure game in Turbo Pascal under Apple CP/M. I've learnt how to recover crashed disks, how to crack their copy protection, how to verify diskettes in 8 seconds flat. Quite simply, I've turned my Apple ][+ inside out learning how to use it to it's fullest capacity. That's what a computer is _for_. When I do finally get some spare time on my hands, I'll get back to programming my Apple ][+. I have literally dozens of projects currently on the back-burner: arcade games, assemblers, compilers, wordprocessors, operating systems, adventure games...all designed to get the maximum power out of an outdated machine. I doubt whether I'll ever sell my Apple. I'll probably end up maintaining it myself! Some of you readers out there may wonder why I bother. What have I gained so far? After all, I've given all my arcade games away; didn't make a cent out of them. Some people will still have my Hi-res picture drawer (with magnification mode) out there; they've probably put their name on it in replace of mine! There are at least 3 earlier versions of my hi-res character generator floating around in other peoples software collection. I may be an odd-ball in that I develop software for the pure enjoyment of it. One day I might make a few dollars in shareware. Until then, I'll just keep on churning out programs for my Apple, and if people find them useful, then I've acheived something. At the very least, in 5 years time I'll have an Apple ][+ that runs under my own operating system, with all of the editors, compilers and assemblers I need. Maybe even my own hybrid high-level language? Who knows? The important thing is that my Apple will _do_ the things I _want_ it to do, without me having to spend a cent on a Macintosh //fx. > > Robert Hood - programmer > </\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\></\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\> < Philip J. Stephens >< "Many views yield the truth." > < Hons. student, Computer Science >< "Therefore, be not alone." > < La Trobe University, Melbourne >< - Prime Song of the viggies > <\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/><\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/>