delaneyg@wnre.aecl.ca (Grant Delaney) (03/25/90)
Permission Has been given to use this in non-profit publication such as user
group news letter.
==================
Sb: #Summit Report
Fm: Barney Stone 76004,1524
To: All
Issues and Realities: The Apple II Summit Meeting - 2/26/90
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTE:
The following represents my own personal view of the recent summit meeting
at Apple. This report has been reviewed by most of the participants, and
not everyone agrees on the facts, the tone of the report, or the
conclusions. I have invited those who disagree to contribute their own
comments.
Apple had only minor comments to make about the report. Some of their
suggestions have been incorporated in the final draft; others, which tended
to make it read like an Apple press release, were not.
- Barney Stone - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Background
On February 26, 1990, the ad hoc Board of Directors of the recently formed
Apple II Developer's Association met with representatives of Apple Computer
at Apple's Marketing Department offices in Cupertino, California.
The meeting was originally planned as a follow-up to an earlier meeting
between the developers and Nancy Stark, Manager of Apple II and Peripheral
Marketing for Apple USA. At my request, and with the cooperation of David
Hancock (Senior VP, Marketing, Apple USA) the meeting was expanded into a
"summit" where we could discuss the future of the Apple II with all of the
relevant departments at Apple. Present at the meeting were:
Apple II Developer's Association
Mark Simonsen, President, Beagle Bros.
Bob Hardman & Bob Carroll, President & VP, Applied Engineering
Roger Wagner, President, Roger Wagner Publishing
Tom Weishaar, Publisher, A2-Central
Paul Boule and Dan Muse, Publisher & Editor, A+/inCider Magazine
Ron Lewin, Marketing Director, Micol Systems
Barney Stone, President, Stone Edge Technologies; Editor, II at Work
(Mike Harvey, Publisher of Nibble, was snowed-in in Boston)
Apple Computer Inc.
David Hancock,JSenior Vice President of Marketing, Apple USA
Mike Homer, Director of Product Marketing, Apple USA
Nancy Stark, Manager, Apple II and Peripheral Marketing, Apple USA
Jane Lee, Manager, Apple II Product Marketing, Apple USA
Sue Talley, Manager, Education Market Development, Apple USA
Kirk Loevner, Director, Developer Group
David Szetela, Manager, Developer Services
Scott Schnell, Manager, Evangelism
Moira Cullen, Manager, Developer Programs
Jonathan Fader, Manager, Education and Multi-Media Evangelism
Sandra Bateman, Manager, Public Relations
Rajiv Mehta, Manager, Apple II Product Marketing, World Wide Product
Marketing
All non-Apple people in attendance were required to sign non-disclosure
agreements covering the entire contents of our discussions, so what I can
say about the meeting will be somewhat limited.
All of the participants from Apple were quite open and frank with us,
although, of course, they could not reveal all of their plans for the
future. David Hancock, whom many of us had expected to zip in, spout some
platitudes, and zip out again, spent nearly two hours with us, and did more
listening than talking.
Issues
You can be sure that most, if not all, of the issues that have been raised
by Apple II owners and developers were discussed, many of them extensively.
Among the issues that we raised were marketing (including advertising,
dealers, Apple reps, etc.), Apple's attitude towards the Apple II, the need
for new hardware and software, the state of the "third party community",
relations with developers and end-users, and un-tapped potential markets
for the Apple II.
Two of Apple's major concerns were commitment to Apple II users and
customers and the global nature of their business. Other areas addressed by
Apple included maintaining customer loyalty, competition, margin
requirements, availability of resources, and return on investments.
We came into the meeting with a variety of beliefs and preconceptions. Ron
Lewin of Micol Systems had prepared and distributed an extensive 10page
report on the Apple II, including quotes and market research from a variety
of sources. However, it quickly became apparent that many of the truths
that are held to be self-evident among Apple II enthusiasts break down in
the face of cold, hard economic and marketplace realities in the world of
five billion dollar high-tech companies.
When presented with such data, Apple people tended to become a bit
defensive, suggesting that our opinions were based on incomplete or
inaccurate information. We, of course, responded that that was the best we
could do, since Apple will not release better data.
Overall, I felt that Apple was genuinely interested in our suggestions and
feedback on smaller issues (how can developer services help Apple II
developers; what kind of co-marketing opportunities are we looking for).
The big picture, however, was a forgone conclusion. We didn't have anything
to say that Apple had not heard before, and hearing it once again was not
going to convince anybody at Apple that they had made any wrong decisions.
(That last statement - that we never really had a chance to make a major
change in Apple's strategy for the Apple II - has generated more
controversy than anything else in this report. One major participant from
Apple has objected that it is not true, and some of the board members
tended to agree with them. So it should be emphasized that this is my ownpersonal opinion. - Barney)
Realities: Good News and Bad News
Without stepping on Apple's confidentiality toes, I think I can safely
report the following as accurately representing Apple's plans for the Apple
II:
The good news is that Apple is not about to drop the Apple II from its
product line.
(Please read that again. Now memorize it, so you can quote it whenever some
less-informed person tries to convince you otherwise!)
Apple is serious about supporting its installed base, even if their ideas
about what that support should include are not exactly what we, as Apple II
users and developers, would like to see. Apple II hardware and software R&D
is continuing, although, I suspect, at reduced levels. And some new Apple
II products will be appearing soon. We should also see some improvements in
developer relations, and perhaps some new marketing opportunities.
(The new DMA SCSI interface card for the Apple II, announced yesterday, is
one of the new products we've been expecting. Meanwhile, Apple's new 1year
warranty, retroactive to 1/1/90, and special offers for AppleCare
maintenance contracts, both of which were announced publicly since our
meeting, are examples of improved support that extends across both of
Apple's product lines. Apple will also emphasize the Apple II at the
National Apple User Group Conference in April, and will participate in the
New Jersey AppleFest and in this summer's A2-Central conference.)
The bad news is that there will be no major new push to market the Apple
II. Apple's future is clearly the Macintosh, and you might as well get used
to it. As Dave Hancock said, "Our (Apple's) whole purpose in life is to
bring the very edge of technology to people."
Although the Apple II's ever-present label of "10 year old technology" is
patently unfair to the advanced technology in the Apple IIGS, it is
likewise obvious that the Apple II will never again represent the "very
edge of technology".
The Future
To Apple II users and developers, I will make the same point that I made to
Dave Hancock: Not everyone needs "the very edge of technology". AppleWorks
was never the very edge of technology, yet for vast numbers of people, it's
all the computing power they'll ever need. And, of course, far more
powerful programs have been, and continue to be, available for the Apple
II.
While the nature of the Apple II market may change over the next few years,
opportunities will continue to be available for hardware and software
developers, particularly in the educational market, and a wide variety of
products will be available to end users if you will continue to support the
companies that support you.
If you need "the very edge of technology", I'm afraid you'll have to buy a
different computer. But then, you already knew that, didn't you?
Barney Stone, for the Apple II Developer's Associationfadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (03/25/90)
In article <30*delaneyg@wnre.aecl.ca> delaneyg@wnre.aecl.ca (Grant Delaney) writes: [actually, Barney Stone writes:] [snip] >The good news is that Apple is not about to drop the Apple II from its >product line. > >(Please read that again. Now memorize it, so you can quote it whenever some >less-informed person tries to convince you otherwise!) For everybody who didn't want to wade through a 170 line message, that's the most important fact to be found. [snip] >The bad news is that there will be no major new push to market the Apple >II. Apple's future is clearly the Macintosh, and you might as well get used >to it. As Dave Hancock said, "Our (Apple's) whole purpose in life is to >bring the very edge of technology to people." This quote takes second place. Hancock makes it sound like altruism. [snip] >If you need "the very edge of technology", I'm afraid you'll have to buy a >different computer. But then, you already knew that, didn't you? Yes Barney, we knew that. It's been rammed down our throats by dealers and advertising campaigns. I almost feel bad buying Apple peripherals, since the profits are funneled primarily into Macintosh development. >Barney Stone, for the Apple II Developer's Association It's almost funny in a way. Here I am at UC Berkeley, home of protests over animal rights, legalization of drugs, affirmative action, police brutality, the environment, nuclear power, and many other causes. But the only cause I really fight for is keeping a computer alive. I grew up with an Apple II, and I'll grow old with one. Whatever other computers I own, I'll always keep this one. -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ...!ucbvax!cory!fadden
nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu (nagendra mishr) (03/26/90)
Perhaps apple didn't let anyone know about the future of the II because they didn't have anything to tell. i.e. They probably didn't have any new products to speak of so they said they would be introducing new STUFF. Apple's pathetic Nagendra
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (03/26/90)
In article <NAGENDRA.90Mar25131807@bucsf.bu.edu> nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu (nagendra mishr) writes: >Perhaps apple didn't let anyone know about the future of the II because >they didn't have anything to tell. i.e. They probably didn't have any new >products to speak of so they said they would be introducing new STUFF. I wouldn't take this as a harbinger of doom, Nagendra. We say the sames things about the Macintosh. Of course, there are probably some people out there who believe that, based on our silence, we are going to cancel BOTH lines, and somehow subsist on no income whatsoever. :-) > >Apple's pathetic >Nagendra Thanks for the editorial. Perhaps you could include something a little more constructive next time? Remember, Apple is made up of individual people, who don't like to be insulted any more than you do. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. --- Developer Technical Support INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "Argue for your Apple, and sure enough, it's yours" - Keith Rollin, Contusions
stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler) (03/27/90)
In article <NAGENDRA.90Mar25131807@bucsf.bu.edu> nagendra@bucsf.bu.edu (nagendra mishr) writes: > >Perhaps apple didn't let anyone know about the future of the II because >they didn't have anything to tell. i.e. They probably didn't have any new >products to speak of so they said they would be introducing new STUFF. > >Apple's pathetic >Nagendra Sorry, not true.... But that's all I can say for now. --andy stadler@apple.com
delaneyg@wnre.aecl.ca (Grant Delaney) (03/27/90)
Let's remember:
- Barney was subject to non-disclosure,
- Apple did say they would be releasing new products,
- Hits at support for scanners in .
- New SCSI
- Hints at Rom4 GS
- The great support we have been getting from apple DTS
- Apple's Taggeted market is obviously the school and home market
- Apple was questioned by "Stock holders" on their support for the low end
market.
and finally just look at he direction MAC is taking which one of us can look
at a $13,000 machine other than when their is a finacial return.
T H E A P P L E ] [ I S N O T O N I T ' S W A Y T O T H E
S C R A P Y A R D !!!!bird@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (j.l.walters) (04/09/90)
From article <1023@tahoma.UUCP>, by prl3546@tahoma.UUCP (Philip R. Lindberg): >> Perhaps apple didn't let anyone know about the future of the II >> because they didn't have anything to tell. i.e. They probably >> didn't have any new products to speak of > IF that were the case I think most people wouldn't shouting so > loud here on the net. I suspect that it's not the case at all, > but rather, Apple DTS has some really slick things designed for > the Apple II line. It's just that management won't let them out > the door, (they're worried it might hurt MAC sales Please don't confuse Apple Development Technical Support (DTS) with Apple policy. folks (in general) don't end up in a department because they don't support the views of the department. I can assure you that I, as a member of a department, have not and perhaps do not support the views of the department in a number of cases. however, I do work for that company and as such, have their eventual survivial as an objective. Having these duel objectives causes me GREAT personal pain at time as I'm sure it does DTS. The message here is, don't assume DTS always espouses company views. -- Joe Walters att!ihlpf!bird IH 2A-227 (708) 979-9527