lbotez@pro-grouch.cts.com (Lynda Botez) (04/08/90)
It seems to amaze me, that in this "electronic" day and age, that no one really takes electronic mail (or e-mail) seriously. Take Apple Computer, for instance. It seems, in order to get their attention, you need to PHYSICALLY take out a sheet of paper, mail it through the US Post Office, and have it delivered personally for them to take something seriously. For example, take the Apple II Infinitum letter writing campaign. Most of this campaign is being organized by people who own modems. And what do they tell you to do? WRITE Apple a LETTER! Electronic mail was supposed to be one of the main reasons to own a computer. Those of us that are taking advantage of this incredible electronic capability believe that this is the way of the future; that we are experimenting with a function th ill eventually become an integral part of modern society sometime in the next century (perhaps even sooner). People have to be weaned off of paper. The intermediate step between paper and electronical data is the FAX machine. Perhaps it does have a purpose after all; you ge your data and paper too! I would gather that when computers become more affordable and powerful, you'll be able to read e-mail that incorporates graphics and fonts, as well as just plain words. (The NeXT already has talking e-mail; but I'm not sure that feature is all that necessary. Hummm, I wonder if it stutters. :-) ). But back to the purpose of all this editorializing. It would seem to me that such a "leading-edge" corporation as Apple Computer would want to take advantage of this exciting electronic medium. We all know of the existence of Apple.Com. It's thanks to it that our feed exists. However, Apple (and their computer) continue to act like some kind of "silent butler" to the outside electronic world. Oh, you can send e-mail back and forth to people at Apple who post regularly here on the net; but the persons you can contact are individuals, and as you know, don't speak for "Apple", the company.. Why doesn't this innovative giant, Apple Computer, have some kind of electronic mailbox where people can forward their comments and concerns to them directly? There are numerous users on this internet of nets (and that includes the MacIntosh people too) who would love to be able to contact Apple directly through electronic mail. Surely this medium is as valuable as a printed letter; it certainly is easily accessible by millions of people. And it is so "leading edge". Just think what we could accomplish with such accessibility... Isn't Apple interested in promoting such a service? It would be, after all, just another branch of "customer service". Lynda UUCP: crash!pro-grouch!lbotez ARPA: crash!pro-grouch!lbotez@nosc.mil INET: lbotez@pro-grouch.cts.com
macausla@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Robert MacAusland) (04/08/90)
On April 7th, 1990 Lynda Botez said: [snip, snip] >Why doesn't this innovative giant, Apple Computer, have some kind of >electronic mailbox where people can forward their comments and concerns >to them directly? There are numerous users on this internet of nets >(and that includes the MacIntosh people too) who would love to be able >to contact Apple directly through electronic mail. > >Lynda [sarcasm mode on] I'm certain that Apple has full and complete facilities in place for user-based feedback via internet/Bitnet and the like, but I'm sure, like many of Apple's most tightly cloistered secrets, the actual E-Mail address's are known only to a choice few who reside in the highest levels of Apple's famed ivory tower. To reveal this information to the public would be tantamount to allowing unbridled exposure to comments, suggestions and worse yet, constructive criticism. This unthinkable act would not only completely undermine years of concerted effort to keep outside influences to an absolute minimum, but it would also almost certainly be in violation of the many non-disclosure agreements that had been signed by the aforementioned executives upon receipt of their mail accounts. [s-mode off] :-) -- /* Robert MacAusland -> macausla@newton.ccs.tuns.ca */
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (04/08/90)
we're talking a public mail address, like comments @ apple.com or something similar -- NOT Sculley's private mail address or anything like that. The executives probably all have private Applelink addresses, which could possibly be discovered. What I'd like to see is a mail account on apple.com for Customer Service, which is really what we're asking for, isn't it. Comment: If the ivory tower finally began to crack, it would actually help Apple FAR MORE than it would hurt. Apple's lack of contact with the outside world is the primary reason they are having so much trouble -- because nobody knew enough to say anything until it was too late, and nobody heard the screaming from the outside. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
farrier@Apple.COM (Cary Farrier) (04/10/90)
In article <618.apple.net2@pro-grouch> lbotez@pro-grouch.cts.com (Lynda Botez) writes: > [...speech deleted...] I have a suggestion for Lynda, Todd, and Robert: Why not just ask next time instead of coming down on Apple? I made a phone call to customer relations, and inquired as to whether there was an email address (which, unfortunately there is not). They did tell me that they do welcome all telephone calls, and they *log* all the calls, so the subject of your call will be documented. I know it is alot easier to send email than to make a phone call (and cheaper), but perhaps if you called them up and asked them for an email address to be set up, they would do it (if there was enough demand for it). The Apple Customer Support phone number is (408) 252-2775. -- +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | Cary Farrier | Internet : farrier@apple.com | | Apple II Systems Software Engineering | UUCP : apple!farrier | | Apple Computer, Inc. | Fax : (408) 974-1704 | | 20525 Mariani Ave. | AppleLink : FARRIER | | Cupertino, CA 95014 | or farrier%applelink@apple.com | | | GEnie : C.FARRIER | +---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | I don't speak for Apple Computer, our products do. | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
bird@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (j.l.walters) (04/10/90)
From article <618.apple.net2@pro-grouch>, by lbotez@pro-grouch.cts.com (Lynda Botez): > Oh, you can send > e-mail back and forth to people at Apple who post regularly here on > the net; but the persons you can contact are individuals, and as you > know, don't speak for "Apple", the company.. > Yes, but the do "listen" for, "Apple, the Company" and if previous posts from Matt are referenced you will see that the folks from DTS collect mail from the net and forward it to the "best" person for that problem. Given that we believe that they know who and what ought to be forwarded to whom, we are better off. Also, how would John Baby know a fervant message from an avid Apple fan wasn't really from some scumbag from the opposition just trying to lead him down the primrose path? With letters, they have DNA available for detailed analysis (you did lick the envelope didn't you?) It has been my experience that you want to get to the boss when the lower level employees are not listening, etc. Don't think that can be said for DTS at all! Finally, DTS knows the secret code so they can modify our letters so upper level managemant can understand what we really mean. As an example: "Dear Sap Sucking Scum" becomes, "Dear Mr. Scully" -- Joe Walters att!ihlpf!bird IH 2A-227 (708) 979-9527
roberth@microsoft.UUCP (Robert HESS) (04/10/90)
Lynda Botez (lbotez@pro-grouch.cts.com) comments about eMail and Apple:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why doesn't this innovative giant, Apple Computer, have some kind
of electronic mailbox where people can forward their comments and
concerns to them directly? There are numerous users on this
internet of nets (and that includes the MacIntosh people too) who
would love to be able to contact Apple directly through electronic
mail. Surely this medium is as valuable as a printed letter; it
certainly is easily accessible by millions of people. And it is so
"leading edge". Just think what we could accomplish with such
accessibility...
And I respond:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynda (and others who I am sure share this view),
To a large extent, this newsgroup *is* the generic email link to Apple.
Here at Microsoft, we are also highly entrenched in eMail usage
througout the company. *Everybody* has an email address that is
published in a company 'phone-book' (but of course this book is
'confidential', and cannot be distributed to the outside world).
I am sure that Apple is similarly setup, and eMail is very important to
them. So, why don't they have a 'generic' comments address? Probably
for the same reason that we don't, a 'physical' letter carries a lot
more clout.
By the simple fact that it *does* take more effort to physically write
and mail a letter, means that those issues that are really important to
an individual, are the ones that will be sent.
If Apple were to have a published 'comments' email alias, then they
would probably be so flooded with postings, that the importance of any
one of them would be diminished to insignificance.
There are several of us here at Microsoft, who regularly monitor the
DOS, WINDOWS, and OS2 newsgroups, and note the concerns and comments of
the subscribers. Several people at Apple appear to be doing the same.
Usually, I will respond directly to the poster in private eMail, but if
the issue raised of interest to a wider audience, I will post to the
newsgroup. When appropriate, I forward copies of the original posting,
and my response, to the group here in Microsoft that is responsible for
that particular topic. But probably what is more important, is that I
read the newsgroups, and get a feeling of what the 'real' world is
doing, and thinking. There have been numerous occasions that I have
been able to control the direction of some of our development based on
some of this feedback.
By posting to this newsgroup, Dave, Matt, Cary and others read your
comments, and when appropriate, pass these comments and feelings to the
individuals who will listen to them. Just because they don't always
respond, doesn't mean they aren't listening.
But if you have a comment that is *really* important to you, then please
send 'physical' mail to Apple. This carries far more weight then eMail.
-Robert
__________________________________________________________________________
##### ####### | Robert B. Hess, Microsoft Corp., Redmond, WA
###### ####### |-----------------------------------------------------
####### ####### | roberth@microsof.uu.net
#### ##### #### | {decvax, uunet, uw-beaver}!microsof!roberth
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"...my opinions are strictly my own, and not those of my employer..."