[comp.sys.apple2] Apple IIGS Rom 3: How do I get one, reasonable price?

ghost@bucsf.BU.EDU (Jay Adelson) (04/12/90)

The other day, I decided to sell my ROM 1 machine and purchase a ROM 3
machine, just so I could have the "latest" in GS technology. (Also,
it would be nice to have the tools in ROM, but that's a different
article.)

I have not sold my ROM 1 GS yet..mainly because I'm concerned about
getting a ROM 3 for a reasonable price.  First of all, the local
computer dealer working with Boston University seems to mark up
their prices way to high BEFORE the discount anyway...I might as
well order a vulcan 100 meg from applied engineering.
Second, it seems the mail order prices are higher than I expected.
Is that because of the 1 meg of Ram on board?

Well, what it all comes down to is:  If you want a new Rom 3 GS,
in the box, all shiny and in the plastic, where's the best place to
get it?

(p.s...anybody want to buy a 9600 baud modem? US. Robotics?)

  -Jay

 _____________________________________________________________________________
|-----------------------|------------------------|----------------------------|
| Jay Adelson           | Phantasmagoric Designs | "If you think things are   |
| ghost@bucsf.bu.edu    | 829 Beacon St.  APT 3B |  going great, you've       |
| J.ADELSON1 (GEnie)    | Boston, MA.      02115 |  forgotten something." -JB |
|_______________________|________________________|____________________________|

johnn@pro-sol.cts.com (John Nishinaga) (04/12/90)

>The other day, I decided to sell my ROM 1 machine and purchase a ROM 3
>machine, just so I could have the "latest" in GS technology. (Also,
>it would be nice to have the tools in ROM, but that's a different
>article.)

It would not be a wise idea to sell your ROM 1 GS for a ROM 3.  The main
reason is compatibility.  Rom 3 GS contains the System Disk 5.0 tools in RAM. 
Because of this, ROM 3 doesn't work with all the GS software because some of
the old software used illegal tool calls (something I don't have the tech
knowledge to explain).

>  -Jay

johnn@pro-sol

"Have fun!"

toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (04/13/90)

johnn@pro-sol.cts.com (John Nishinaga) writes:

>It would not be a wise idea to sell your ROM 1 GS for a ROM 3.  The main
>reason is compatibility.  Rom 3 GS contains the System Disk 5.0 tools in RAM. 
>Because of this, ROM 3 doesn't work with all the GS software because some of
>the old software used illegal tool calls (something I don't have the tech
>knowledge to explain).

1. Rom 3 has all the tools in ROM, not RAM. (picky picky)
	This is actually a damn nice feature to have.

2. GS software that doesn't work with ROM 3 is NAUGHTY software -- the Tools
	aren't the problem, it's the built-in firmware... Demos like Nucleus
	make assumptions which Apple has expressly told developers NOT to make.
	Things like Smartport entry addresses and undocumented system vectors
	and such. Nucleus does not need to make these assumptions, they are
	evidence of either shortcutting or lack of tech notes on the FTA's
	part and they are not producing perfect software because of it.

Software that does things which crash on a ROM 3 machine are, in my not at
all humble opinion, no better than copy protection because they are too
hardware specific. I found that FTA stuff is impossible to use with a
Unidisk, and cannot be moved to a hard drive easily... This gives me
severe pause when I consider diverting some of my meager funds into
shareware fees.

However, I agree that there is no point in buying a ROM 3 just to "keep up"
with technology... why is that important? Don't bother with the ROM unless
it is cheap enough to move to and provides you with abilities that you deem
are worth the price.

For most of us, the ROM 3 was NOWHERE NEAR the improvement we wanted to see
at the price it would cost. It's about time Apple did to the entire Apple II
product line what they just did to the SCSI card.

Todd Whitesel
toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu

ghost@bucsf.BU.EDU (Jay Adelson) (04/13/90)

toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes:

[..snip..]

>However, I agree that there is no point in buying a ROM 3 just to "keep up"
>with technology... why is that important? Don't bother with the ROM unless
>it is cheap enough to move to and provides you with abilities that you deem
>are worth the price.

[..snip..]

>Todd Whitesel
>toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu

Todd, I agree with that tact: I'm not getting a ROM 3 just to "keep up"
with the latest technology.  Believe it or not, not only am I considering
the resale value of the computer in august [:-)] but also that I want a new
computer.

So..that issue aside...DOES ANYONE KNOW THE BEST WAY TO PURCHASE A IIGS
ROM 3 FOR A REASONABLE PRICE?

  -Jay
   ghost@bucsf.bu.edu

 _____________________________________________________________________________
|-----------------------|------------------------|----------------------------|
| Jay Adelson           | Phantasmagoric Designs | "If you think things are   |
| ghost@bucsf.bu.edu    | 829 Beacon St.  APT 3B |  going great, you've       |
| J.ADELSON1 (GEnie)    | Boston, MA.      02115 |  forgotten something." -JB |
|_______________________|________________________|____________________________|

farrier@Apple.COM (Cary Farrier) (04/14/90)

In article <1990Apr13.001001.9226@laguna.ccsf.caltech.edu> toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes:
>1. Rom 3 has all the tools in ROM, not RAM. (picky picky)
>	This is actually a damn nice feature to have.

Not all the tools are in ROM, some are still loaded.

>Todd Whitesel
>toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu


-- 
+---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Cary Farrier                          | Internet  : farrier@apple.com   |
| Apple II Systems Software Engineering | UUCP      : apple!farrier       |
| Apple Computer, Inc.                  | Fax       : (408) 974-1704      |
| 20525 Mariani Ave.                    | AppleLink : FARRIER             |
| Cupertino, CA 95014                   |  or farrier%applelink@apple.com |
|                                       | GEnie     : C.FARRIER           |
+---------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
|          I don't speak for Apple Computer, our products do.             |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

samt@pro-europa.cts.com (Sam Theis) (04/14/90)

In-Reply-To: message from ghost@bucsf.BU.EDU


Keep your money in your pocket!  The ROM 03 won't buy you anything more than
incompatibility with some programs.  There aren't any significant advances
that will be worth the couple of hundred dollars that it will cost you to
"upgrade".

UUCP: crash!pro-europa!samt
ARPA: crash!pro-europa!samt@nosc.mil
INET: samt@pro-europa.cts.com

ghost@bucsf.BU.EDU (Jay Adelson) (04/15/90)

In article <2210@crash.cts.com> samt@pro-europa.cts.com (Sam Theis) writes:
>In-Reply-To: message from ghost@bucsf.BU.EDU
>
>
>Keep your money in your pocket!  The ROM 03 won't buy you anything more than
>incompatibility with some programs.  There aren't any significant advances
>that will be worth the couple of hundred dollars that it will cost you to
>"upgrade".
>
>UUCP: crash!pro-europa!samt
>ARPA: crash!pro-europa!samt@nosc.mil
>INET: samt@pro-europa.cts.com

	Hey friend! Don't get me wrong! But all I want to know is:
What is the most inexpensive way to get a ROM 3?

	It seems a lot of ROM 1 owners out there are quick to jump in and
say "Don't get a ROM 3" simply because they know I already own a ROM 1,
and they have convinced themselves they don't need an upgrade, therefore
my buying a ROM 3 upsets them.

	Well you folks who keep saying I don't need a ROM 3 upgrade:
I AGREE.  I couldn't agree with your reasoning MORE.  BUT: I'm convinced
for financial reasons and for those LITTLE differences between the ROM 3
and ROM 1 that (italics) I (end italics) should invest in a ROM 3. It just
so happens that some of the things I use my computer for make having tools
in ROM a very convenient thing...not to mention the ensoniq chip.

	Please: It's not that I don't agree with what you're all saying in
mail and in posts, but ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS HOW TO GET A ROM 3 FOR A GOOD
PRICE.  Is there someone out there who knows the answer to this question?
Or have I answered the question myself?  There IS NO good price for a ROM 3?

 _____________________________________________________________________________
|-----------------------|------------------------|----------------------------|
| Jay Adelson           | Phantasmagoric Designs | "If you think things are   |
| ghost@bucsf.bu.edu    | 829 Beacon St.  APT 3B |  going great, you've       |
| J.ADELSON1 (GEnie)    | Boston, MA.      02115 |  forgotten something." -JB |
|_______________________|________________________|____________________________|