jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) (07/22/90)
Up until now, I haven't been giving all that much thought to the Rom04 GS rumors, mostly because I have been disaointed before. Now, though, I hope and pray something comes out in the Fall, because IBM has announced the PS/1 line, based upon a fast '286 and sells for between 1 and 2 grand complete. It doesn't have a serial port (from what I read in PC magazine) but does come with a built-in modem. This machine was specifically designed for the "home market" and comes with an easy to use, mouse-based interface under VGA graphics. This is the closest thing yet to a machine in direct competition with the Apple //GS, product-description wise and market-wise. And the GS can't compete with this thing at its current configuration. We've been loyal to our machine, both to its and our credit. But now the gavel falls on Apple's neglect. If something doesn't happen soon, IBM will swamp the market with these things, just like they did with the original PC. You guys at Apple, I am concerned and worried. Any comments, no matter how cryptic, would be appreciated. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software | opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U. | | Ya Gotta Love It. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
declan@portia.Stanford.edu (07/23/90)
Jeremy Mereness writes... >Now, though, I hope and pray something comes out in the Fall, because >IBM has announced the PS/1 line, based upon a fast '286 and sells for >between 1 and 2 grand complete. It doesn't have a serial port (from >what I read in PC magazine) but does come with a built-in modem. This >machine was specifically designed for the "home market" and comes with >an easy to use, mouse-based interface under VGA graphics. From a quick glace at the latest Byte, I noticed that you can build a complete 12 MHz IBM AT clone system with VGA, a 1.2 MB floppy, a parallel port, a serial port, a 2400 bps modem, and 1 MB RAM for $1,225. Add a few dollars for Windows 3.0. I don't think that IBM's pricing is revolutionary; far from it. Perhaps IBM's name will add some value to its product, but the PS/1 line may very well be viewed as overpriced and (even worse) a followup to the PCjr. >This is the closest thing yet to a machine in direct competition with >the Apple //GS, product-description wise and market-wise. And the GS >can't compete with this thing at its current configuration. We've been >loyal to our machine, both to its and our credit. But now the gavel >falls on Apple's neglect. If something doesn't happen soon, IBM will >swamp the market with these things, just like they did with the >original PC. IBM's product isn't anything new - all the PS/1 line may do is add a bit of legitimacy to the activites of cheap clone-making. I agree with some of your observations, but not with your conclusions. IBM has little chance to "swamp the market" with low cost computers because the situtation has changed dramatically between the time of the original IBM PC and now. Almost a decade ago, few people had computers, and computers were far from being the legitimate business they are today. Now, they the MS-DOS world is quite mainstream, and people (home or business) are quite unlikely to throw away their existing computers to purchase what amounts to antiquated technology - a 80286 system is not leading-edge, no matter what IBM would have you believe. However, the IIgs is sorely in need of a hardware upgrade incorporating higher speed and better resolution. I'm sure most of us agree on that. I wonder what percentage the profits from the Apple II line go to Macintosh hardware and software development... Perhaps none, since the Macintosh is quite profitable by itself - but I can't help but wonder. >You guys at Apple, I am concerned and worried. Any comments, no matter >how cryptic, would be appreciated. Do you expect them to say something on USENET? The most rumor-laden place on earth? But wouldn't it be nice if Apple Corporate did announce something officially? -Declan >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | >|jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| >|a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software | opinions, alone. | >|staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U. | | Ya Gotta Love It. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Olympic Technologies / Registered NeXT Developers \ declan@portia.stanford.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bmarlowe@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Brett Marlowe) (07/25/90)
In <0aeR7uK00VQp084=UH@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: >Up until now, I haven't been giving all that much thought to the >Rom04 GS rumors, mostly because I have been disaointed before. >Now, though, I hope and pray something comes out in the Fall, because >IBM has announced the PS/1 line, based upon a fast '286 and sells for >between 1 and 2 grand complete. It doesn't have a serial port (from >what I read in PC magazine) but does come with a built-in modem. This >machine was specifically designed for the "home market" and comes with >an easy to use, mouse-based interface under VGA graphics. From what I've heard the machine has some serious deficiencies: There are three expansion slots all of which are already used by a disk controller, the modem, and something else (it escapes me). The machine has 512K of RAM for which there is no immediate method for expansion. The processor is a 10MHz 80286 It DOES have full VGA graphics (1024 x 768) It costs $2000 list price. The biggest gotcha though is the power supply for the computer is built into the *monitor* >This is the closest thing yet to a machine in direct competition with >the Apple //GS, product-description wise and market-wise. And the GS >can't compete with this thing at its current configuration. We've been >loyal to our machine, both to its and our credit. But now the gavel >falls on Apple's neglect. If something doesn't happen soon, IBM will >swamp the market with these things, just like they did with the >original PC. The big question is why buy a computer that locks you in to IBM hardware when for less than $1000 you can buy a full blown AT clone? With IBMs past record in the home market I'm not worried yet, but that is no excuse for you guys at Apple to shelve any upgrades for the IIGS :-) >You guys at Apple, I am concerned and worried. Any comments, no matter >how cryptic, would be appreciated. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | >|jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| >|a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software | opinions, alone. | >|staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U. | | Ya Gotta Love It. | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Everything I heard today was second from someone I work with who is very up on the IBM market and he was unimpressed to say the least. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brett Marlowe bmarlowe@bonnie.ics.uci.edu Apple // Forever!! A senior in mathematics and Information & Computer Science at the University of California, Irvine. I said it, so I'm responsible for it not them! So There!
pmcd@yunexus.yorku.ca (Phil McDunnough) (07/25/90)
In article <26AD3B56.18704@ics.uci.edu> bmarlowe@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Brett Marlowe) writes: > From what I've heard the machine has some serious deficiencies: > > There are three expansion slots all of which are already used > by a disk controller, the modem, and something else (it > escapes me). There is a slot for a sound/midi board(4 voice sound). > > The machine has 512K of RAM for which there is no immediate > method for expansion. Not true. Memory expansion is available via a type of "credit card". IBM currently only has the .5 meg type, but larger capacity cards will be available(they already are for laptops). > > The biggest gotcha though is the power supply for the computer > is built into the *monitor* Actually this makes for very quiet operation. No fan needed. > > The big question is why buy a computer that locks you in to >IBM hardware when for less than $1000 you can buy a full blown AT >clone? Because the computer won't cost $2000 on the street or in schools and IBM will provide at home service. Not everyone is a hacker, and willing to trust the $1000(not colour) clone which could end up costing you more than $1000 in wasted time due to hassles. A more serious threat is the Tandy 2500XL and its 386sx version. These also have sound, larger drives,VGA, and a very nice small footprint. DOS is in ROM, and they currently supply Deskmate in ROM, but you can imagine what that will be replaced by. > > With IBMs past record in the home market I'm not worried yet, >but that is no excuse for you guys at Apple to shelve any upgrades for >the IIGS :-) I agree with you about the upgrade issue. But I would be very worried about the IBM move. This is only the beginning for them. We need a ROM04, HyperCard and a low price. Philip McDunnough University of Toronto philip@utstat.toronto.edu[down for 2 days] [my opinions of course]
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) (07/27/90)
Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.apple2: 25-Jul-90 Re: New IBM Threat Phil McDunnough@yunexus. (1885) > A more serious threat is > the Tandy 2500XL and its 386sx version. These also have sound, larger > drives,VGA, and a very nice small footprint. DOS is in ROM, and they > currently supply Deskmate in ROM, but you can imagine what that will be > replaced by. > > > > With IBMs past record in the home market I'm not worried yet, > >but that is no excuse for you guys at Apple to shelve any upgrades for > >the IIGS :-) > I agree with you about the upgrade issue. But I would be very worried > about the IBM move. This is only the beginning for them. The problem is not in the home market per se. It is in the institutions that influence the home. Small businesses, all sorts of schools, universities, will all begin supporting the things and universities may begin asking students to buy them. Corporations are partial to IBM because they know IBM can ship and support large accounts. THEN people will start buying them at home. IBM seems to be getting serious, both with their new Unix platform and PC's. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software | opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U. | | Ya Gotta Love It. | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
rond@pro-grouch.cts.com (Ron Dippold) (07/27/90)
In-Reply-To: message from pmcd@yunexus.yorku.ca > I agree with you about the upgrade issue. But I would be very worried > about the IBM move. This is only the beginning for them. Yeah, there's an article in InfoWorld, about hopw IBM has always been a leader in _spite_ of their products, but they are now coming around. Scary. And someone showed me his SoftDisk GS (I think that's the name). He showed me part of an editorial that said that the staffers are checking out IBM clones, just in case. And there was a comment something to the effect that "Funny how a few months ago, IBM was the enemy and Apple was our friend, and now the roles have reversed." Not an exact quote, but pretty damn close. UUCP: crash!pro-grouch!rond ARPA: crash!pro-grouch!rond@nosc.mil INET: rond@pro-grouch.cts.com