crew@pro-harvest.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) (07/24/90)
> Suggestion Dave... In your next release of the IIgs System Software, it wld > be nice to have a GS specific release of P8. What I'd like to see is the > ability to access more than two drives per slot. I know there will be some > compatibility problems with current Prodos 8 software, but I'm sure most of > it can be taken into consideration and worked around. I'm sure there are a > lot of others out there that can think of other improvements to P8. > Oh yea, like access to >32 megs per volume. :) > Laer Haider > lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com This sounds a little silly to me. Why bother with a version of ProDOS 8 to exploit some of the extra features of the IIGS? The only software that would benefit from a GS-only P8 release would only run on the IIGS. If you want to write GS only software, why not use GS/OS, or even ProDOS 16? Each of these 16-bit operating systems (especially GS/OS) is easier to program for when writing GS apps, and are faster, superior, operating systems. ________________________ _________________________ | ProLine: crew@pro-harvest | | Internet: crew@pro-harvest.cts.com | | UUCP: crash!pro-harvest!crew | | ARPA: crash!pro-harvest!crew@nosc.mil | |_______________ BITNET: crew%pro-harvest.cts.com@nosc.mil _________________|
dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) (07/27/90)
In article <0.apple.info-apple@pro-harvest> crew@pro-harvest.cts.com (Chris Wicklein) writes: >This sounds a little silly to me. Why bother with a version of ProDOS >8 to exploit some of the extra features of the IIGS? I tend to agree with this--I would rather see a 128K-Apple II version of ProDOS 8, if that's what it takes, to fit some more features in. There are compatibility problems with this too, but if everybody starts following the rules as currently laid out in the ProDOS 8 Technical Notes, then the system can grow into most of the auxiliary-memory language card, leaving the main 46K ($800..BFFF) in auxiliary memory for the application, but leaving the user without a /RAM disk. Of course, such a version would work on the GS, too (and you'd still have /RAM5 if you wanted it). (By the way, I don't get to actually make decisions about what features will be in future Apple products. I can make well-thought-out recommendations to the right people, though.) -- David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems Apple II Developer Technical Support | P.O. Box 875 America Online: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (me) (07/27/90)
>This sounds a little silly to me.
I thought so at first two, but maybe it would be a good idea, if would be
compatible with old software that check the slots and drive info from ProDOS
. Such as, Copy ][+. I have a card (RANA) that will allow four drives on one
card and with their modiffied DOS (3.3) you access the drives as S6,D1 S6,D2 S6
,D3 S6,D4. If a ProDOS patch or version would come out, I could use the extra
two drives for ProDOS. Also, I have A PC Transporter andthe ibm type drives
on it can be used as prodos drives, but they're mmapped to different sloots, an
d I have so many drives, and with only 2 drives per slot, I lose one them.
I'd rather see thhhis midification done on ProDOS 8 then GS/OS, because all GS/
OS programs keep scanning ALL the drives FOUR times! whenever a load or save oc
curs and that takes FOREVER! And I still use copy ][+ ALOT and it sure would
be nice to have access to all my drives and access them in the slots the they
REALLY are. It gets confusing figuring out which drive goes with which slot
when it's plugged into another sslot.dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) (07/28/90)
In article <9007271634.AA14476@apple.com> MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (me) writes: (MQUINN wants ProDOS 8 to be revised to handle more than 2 devices per slot, partly so that Copy II+ can get at all his drives on a RANA card.) Can anybody with Copy II+ handy verify whether it's making its block-level calls through ProDOS (MLI READ_BLOCK and WRITE_BLOCK calls) rather than directly to the cards' firmware? >[...] GS/OS programs keep scanning ALL the drives FOUR times! whenever a >load or save occurs and that takes FOREVER! And I still use copy ][+ ALOT That's odd...why does it keep scanning for you? Is it because you've always just switched disks before you bring up a Standard File dialog? If so, try bringing up Standard File (Open... or whatever) and *then* switching the disk and hitting Tab. I think that will reduce your wasted time considerably. It's also conceivable that a future version of Standard File could provide a better way to move to another device, instead of Tabbing around past all your empty 5.25 drives. >and it sure would be nice to have access to all my drives and access them >in the slots the they REALLY are. It gets confusing figuring out which >drive goes with which slot when it's plugged into another slot. Under ProDOS 8, the "device number" format includes only one bit for the drive number, and many ProDOS 8 appications use this bit to display Drive 1 or Drive 2--so there's no way to make most applications call your drives 3 and 4. They would have to be 1 and 2 in some other slot. -- David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems Apple II Developer Technical Support | P.O. Box 875 America Online: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (07/28/90)
dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) writes: >In article <9007271634.AA14476@apple.com> MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (me) writes: >>[...] GS/OS programs keep scanning ALL the drives FOUR times! whenever a >>load or save occurs and that takes FOREVER! And I still use copy ][+ ALOT I think the real solution to this is to rewrite the AppleDisk 5.25 driver. What's the status of the GS/OS manuals (specifically volume 2, which I believe contains the device driver info)? BTW, I saw Toolbox Ref 3 on the shelves. I'm going to go get one soon. >It's also conceivable that a future version of Standard File could provide a >better way to move to another device, instead of Tabbing around past all >your empty 5.25 drives. Yeah, like my replacement P8 quit code does; you pretend there is a "/" (null) prefix which is essentially a directory containing all online volumes. There still needs to be a button that causes it to re-poll for switched/removed disks, however, so you will still want the Disk button. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) (07/28/90)
In-Reply-To: message from dlyons@Apple.COM
{
>I tend to agree with this--I would rather see a 128K-Apple II version of
>ProDOS 8, if that's what it takes, to fit some more features in. There
>are compatibility problems with this too, but if everybody starts following
>the rules as currently laid out in the ProDOS 8 Technical Notes, then
>the system can grow into most of the auxiliary-memory language card,
>leaving the main 46K ($800..BFFF) in auxiliary memory for the application,
>but leaving the user without a /RAM disk.
According to my Tech Ref Manual, however, $800-$BEFF is free space.. And
most 128K programs use that Aux memory in some capacity.
What would be nice, is to have an Expanded memory Prodos 8 -- ie if you
have a memory card with 256K+ or a IIGS, then you could utilitize new
features (although I'm not sure what they would be offhand).
Mark MunzMQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU ("Michael J. Quinn") (07/28/90)
Thanks for your reply on how ProDOS 8 handles drives. I'm away of the method of preventing GS/OS from scanning all my drives by not putting in a new disk until after the file dialog box appears, but I keep forgetting to do that and by the time reallize I should have done it, it's already started scanning the other drives.... I wish I could just tell it which slot and drive, like the good ol' days! :)
bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) (07/30/90)
In article <22016.chatter.infoapple@pro-beagle>, mmunz@pro-beagle.cts.com (Mark Munz) writes: > > What would be nice, is to have an Expanded memory Prodos 8 -- ie if you > have a memory card with 256K+ or a IIGS, then you could utilitize new > features (although I'm not sure what they would be offhand). > > Mark Munz Try DAVEX. It's been doing all of this for years now. I was hoping that Apple would package a version of DAVEX as an alternative O/S with all of the //s. ******************************************************************** * * * bob church bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu * * * * If economics isn't an "exact" science why do computers crash * * so much more often than the stock market? * * bc * ********************************************************************
dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) (07/31/90)
In article <1631@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes: >Try DAVEX. It's been doing all of this for years now. I was hoping that >Apple would package a version of DAVEX as an alternative O/S with all of >the //s. Praise is always accepted cheerfully...but a couple of notes. Davex isn't an operating system, it's just a command shell that sits between you and ProDOS 8. Davex doesn't, for example, generally let you work with extended files or access devices past the first two in any slot (except for slot 5). If ProDOS 8 is ever modified to do stuff like that, Davex would benefit automatically (and I would revise it to take better advantage of new OS features, too). -- David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc. | DAL Systems Apple II Developer Technical Support | P.O. Box 875 America Online: Dave Lyons | Cupertino, CA 95015-0875 GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS CompuServe: 72177,3233 Internet/BITNET: dlyons@apple.com UUCP: ...!ames!apple!dlyons My opinions are my own, not Apple's.