dalel@servio.UUCP (Dale LaFountain) (08/28/90)
In response to a recent note in InCider, I wrote to Origin showing my support for an Apple II (or GS-specific, preferably) version of Ultima VI. Less than two weeks later, I received a letter back from their customer service department. Here are a couple of interesting tidbits from it: In response to your inquiry regarding whether or not Ultima VI: The False Prophet is going to be available on the Apple platform, we would like to fill you in on ORIGIN's current thinking. Unlike all previous Ultimas, number 6 is the first one that was completely designed and implemented on the IBM PC. When Richard "Lord British" Garriot learned that he could make use of the growing IBM market, with machines featuring 640k RAM, hard drives, and 256-color VGA graphics, he could not resist the opportunity. Utilizing this would give him the chance to, as he put it, "...create the ultimate ULTIMA!" Copuple that with the ever-present fact that the Apple market is continuing to diminish at an alarming rate (beginning with base support from Apple Computers, Inc. and trickling down to the Apple specific magazines, and even the disaffected Apple users), it is little wonder that the question about developing Ultima VI on the Apple has arisen. As of this date, a technical evaluation of such an endeavor is being conducted by Origin. When one considers the daunting task of converting a 640k game down to 128k, and doing so in a timely and cost-efficient manner, the air of pessimism is unavoidable. Also, it is a widely recognized trend among entertainment software publishers today to focus title development on remaining strong markets, namely IBM & compatibles, Amiga, and Commodore. However, the subject regarding an Apple Ultima VI will not be entirely decided until all of the facts are in, including whatever comments and enthusiasm YOU (the Apple user) can muster. Because you have taken the time to express your support for an Apple Ultima VI by writing your letter, we are able to build a better case for the potential development of it. [rest deleted] ORIGIN Customer Service (signed name Kirk <unreadable>) ------- Anyone have any comments about this? They certainly hit the nail on the head about Apple's interest (lately). I suggested in my letter that they use the GS as a platform for this game, as it has comparable graphics and superior sound (IBM VGA version was only 320x200x256). I don't see how it could be terribly hard to port a version to the GS. Of course, this is kind of abandoning the II+/e/c users, but I guess one has to move on at some point. It DOES seem kind of unrealistic to cram all that into 128k RAM (I've seen the IBM version; it's much more complicated than any of the previous Ultimas). On another thread, would it be out of line for a software company to require an accelerator of some sort for their software? I'm sure speed will be Origin's biggest complaint with the GS. And how many of the GS users out there don't already have a TransWarp GS or are planning to buy either that or a Zip GS in the near future? (Please, no flames here, I'm just speculating). It looks like another letter writing campaign would be advantageous here, folks. At least Origin is giving US a fair chance to express our opinions and support before they decide about the Apple version of their software. If we want good software, we're going to have to fight for it ourselves, because it seems like no one else is going to stand up for us. Please let me know if you find out more information. Fellow Ultima enthusiast (hopefully), Dale LaFountain dalel@servio.SLC.COM (before Sept. 18) prophet@oxy.edu (after Sept. 20)
ysk@Asia.Sun.COM (Yong Su Kim) (08/29/90)
Hmm. Still this debate about Ultima VI. I thought that the case was dead and buried a long time ago... I don't really see why Origin shouldn't make the game. If they make it as good as the IBM version, it's definitely going to sell many many copies. There are a lot of GS users out there, but there aren't many good games for people to spend their money on. Origin shouldn't be worried about 'support' or the market share. If they produce a good product, it should sell on its own, as long as there is a market. Maybe they're just lazy. If Omega GS is anything to judge Origin's programming skills on the GS, maybe Ultima VI GS is just too much for them to handle.
SAB121@psuvm.psu.edu (08/29/90)
Well, since you are planning a letter writing campaign, how about the ORIGIN
address so that we can all send them something???
...Sal
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Espyville, PA 16424 If no answer, or it bounces call AOL --> Sal15gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (08/30/90)
In article <9008290116.AA27800@sunhkd.Asia.Sun.Com> ysk@Asia.Sun.COM (Yong Su Kim) writes: >I don't really see why Origin shouldn't make the game. Origin's problem is that they're convinced that the investment would be worthwhile only if an 8-bit Apple II product resulted, not a IIGS-specific product. This has to do with perceptions of the Apple II software market that are widespread in the software publishing industry; I don't say they are correct. Obviously it would be painful to cram Ultima VI into an 8-bit Apple II, and the result would not be up to modern customer expectations (especially those of IIGS users!). I fully agree with Origin's reluctance to work on an 8-bit Apple II version of Ultima VI, but I would like to see a IIGS version. The two classes of competitive computers are: { Commodore 64/128, 8-bit Apple II, Atari 400/800 } and { Amiga, Apple IIGS, Atari ST, IBM PC } Macintoshes are essentially in a class by themselves, since the affordable ones have only monochrome graphics. I note that a local Electronics Boutique has dropped ALL Macintosh software, although they still have some Apple II and Commodore software. Does that mean the Macintosh is officially dead? :-) >If they make it as good as the IBM version, it's definitely going to sell >many many copies. That means a IIGS version, not an 8-bit Apple II one. >There are a lot of GS users out there, but there aren't many good games for >people to spend their money on. That's for sure. I actually have trouble finding IIGS software to spend my limited software budget on. This implies to me that there is a sizeable untapped market if only the software publishers and distributors knew how to reach it. (Software stores in malls around here seldom have any new IIGS software that I want, and when both 8-bit Apple II and IIGS versions of a product are released, they tend to stock just the 8-bit one, since "it says on the box that it will run on a IIGS". No wonder sales have slumped!)
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (08/31/90)
In article <13698@smoke.BRL.MIL> gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) writes: >I note that a local Electronics Boutique has dropped ALL Macintosh software, >although they still have some Apple II and Commodore software. Does that >mean the Macintosh is officially dead? :-) Not yet. The stores that I've looked at are actually stocking approximately the same amounts of Apple II and Mac stuff. Conclusion: if software sales == machine health, then the Macintosh is not well... or the Apple II is a lot healthier than it appears. I do find it interesting how IBM has managed to capture so much of the entertainment market so quickly. Apple threw out an entertainment machine (no flames please... just pointing out that it's better for "fun" applications than for heavyweight number-crunching) in favor of a desktop publishing machine, so most of the software produced these days is PC-oriented (except for word processors and drawing programs). It probably hasn't affected Apple's sales much, because of the Mac's reputation for ease-of-use. But if you walked into a computer store, and saw 10 times as many titles for IBM hardware as for Apple hardware (be it games or otherwise), which computer would you buy? (BTW, that's a good one to throw at Apple reps who hang out at college campuses... we've got plenty of them here...) If IBM can change the user-hostile aura surrounding their machines, it'll be amusing to watch. Can't wait for Windows 3.0 :-) -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ..!ucbvax!cory!fadden
mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) (08/31/90)
In-Reply-To: message from dalel@servio.UUCP
Origin's comments reflect the state of the market that has developed around
the Apple ][ computers. They are right about several things: look at the
size of the Apple "glossies" magazines. They are about 1/2 their former size
due to a lack of advertising, reflecting a reduction in the number of third
party manufacturers and software publishers. Also, there has been a
significant reduction in the number of Apple magazines themselves, although
one or two new ones keep popping up.
Reading this month's A2-Central, it appears that Apple, Inc has gotten the
message and wants to turn this decline in support for the Apple around. But
is it too late even if it isn't too little? The patient has cancer and x-ray
and chemotherapy is started, but will remission result in a cure? Only time
will tell.
New, exciting products and software will be required to keep both interest and
dollar flow in the Apple ][ world. That, in my mind, is what is keeping the
IBM market alive, although not necessarily from IBM itself. The clones seem
to have the base now and it's accessories and software that keep the market
going. After all, how many people are really purchasing the new IBM machines
as opposed to a full functioning clone at 2/3 to 1/2 the price.
I see a similar situation in Apple's world. The installed base is there in
Apple ]['s and Mac's. And how many of that base will go out and purchase the
newest, latest and greatest computer as opposed to looking for an accelerator,
add-on board, hard drive or other peripheral. Heck, I'm still using a ][e and
have no intentions of "upgrading" to another Apple; but I sure might purchase
associated hardware when the price is right (CD-ROM, Scanner etc.)
The loss of one of the pioneers in game production ("Lord British") is a
shame, but more will join that bandwagen if the Apple total environment
doesn't stay alive and active. I think I saw that Inginuity, Inc is also gone
(A2-Central again)...is that the same as Applied Inginuity (similar name?);
that would be a shame too, as their hard drives are very good and I was
looking forward to the internal Apple ][c hard drive.
It should be interesting to see what kind of support the next Apple Fest has.
______________________________________________________________________________
Mike Ungerman |Proline:mikeu@pro-magic
Pro-Magic BBS: 407-366-0156 |uucp:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu
300/1200/2400/9600 Baud 24hrs |arpa:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu@nosc.mil
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Orlando, Florida|Voice:407-366-0060|Compuserve:71326,31 Prodigy: JSNP58Akboutin@zinn.MV.COM (Kurt Boutin) (08/31/90)
I feel that I MUST comment here. DO NOT get your hopes up for any type of Apple // support from Origin. Letter writing will most likely not get ANY kind of positive response save the form letter. As one who has worked at Origin (I was in testing and Customer support for 2 years), I know how the management works and once they make a decision (which they already have), there is no turning back. You see, they see it this way: "We made a decision. If we change our minds, then it will look like we didn't know what we were talking about. We don't want to be embarassed." All I can say, is trust me. Save your stamps for a company that cares about its customers. Kurt -- Kurt Boutin "Is that your real nose?"
denny@navier.ae.utexas.edu (Charles Denny) (08/31/90)
When I visited Origin last spring break, they indicated that they were in the process of looking for a //GS C programmer to convert it. I'm not sure how that turned out since I haven't talked to any of the programmers there since then. Perhaps there is still hope... Denny
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (09/01/90)
denny@navier.ae.utexas.edu (Charles Denny) writes: > When I visited Origin last spring break, they indicated that they >were in the process of looking for a //GS C programmer to convert it. >I'm not sure how that turned out since I haven't talked to any of the >programmers there since then. Perhaps there is still hope... Damn! If I didn't still have two more years of college... If they do decide to do it, I hope they use ORCA or MPW IIGS -- APW C sux. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
ksh@ely.cl.cam.ac.uk (Kish Shen) (09/02/90)
I have sent in a letter about Ultima VI (GS version) and got the form letter reply. However, I have heard from other people (from the net and otherwise) who have talked personally to Lord British or phoned in that Origin is planning to produce an Ultima VI for the GS. However, I heard this before sending in my own letter, so if they are planning to produce an Apple (and probably a GS) version, then why do they not change their form letter? Are there anybody out there "in the know"? Kish Shen
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/02/90)
In article <4195@crash.cts.com> mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) writes: >New, exciting products and software will be required to keep both interest >and dollar flow in the Apple ][ world. Hardware and software products have been developed, but many of them have a hard time reaching customers. This does not necessarily mean there is not a large market for the products, but there sure are problems in distribution and retailing. If the computer isn't a Nintendo or IBM PC compatible, there is just not shelf space for its products these days. Even Apple dealers don't tend to stock enough of the nifty new products, especially for the II line. A few days ago I tried to order the following from Programs Plus, one of the few mail-order outfits I have been able to find that stocks useful IIGS software, and they say that even they don't have these (all of which I have heard have recently been "released"): Dragon Wars (IIGS-specific, not 8-bit) [Interplay] Cosmocade (IIGS) [Micro Revelations] Transylvania 3 (IIGS) [Polarware] Thus, these products cannot possibly be selling well, which will undoubtedly be taken as more evidence that "there is no significant Apple II(GS) market". P.S. If anybody knows for sure where I can purchase these, please let me know! - Gwyn@BRL.MIL
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/02/90)
In article <13722@smoke.BRL.MIL> Gwyn@BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) writes: > Dragon Wars (IIGS-specific, not 8-bit) [Interplay] > Cosmocade (IIGS) [Micro Revelations] > Transylvania 3 (IIGS) [Polarware] >P.S. If anybody knows for sure where I can purchase these, please let me know! Add Rastan (IIGS) [Taito] to this list.