wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (08/26/90)
Awhile back, someone mentioned a program from some group called F.U.C.K. which would turn GIFs into 3200 color pictures. Does anyone have this, is it share/freeware, and if so can someone mail me a copy or post to comp.binaries.apple2? thanks, bill gulstad
jonah@amos.ucsd.edu (Jonah Stich) (08/26/90)
In article <139800018@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> wogg0743@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > >Awhile back, someone mentioned a program from some group called F.U.C.K. >which would turn GIFs into 3200 color pictures. Does anyone have this, >is it share/freeware, and if so can someone mail me a copy or post to >comp.binaries.apple2? Actually, the F.U.C.K. converter did IFF pictures into 3200 colors. Also, F.U.C.K. seems to prefer distributing other people's works more than their own, and havent releasedhe converter. However, fear not--I know of SEVERAL upcoming programs to convert GIFs & IFFs into 3200 colo. Probably the most versatile is John MacLean's The Grpahic Exchange, whose new library disk (to be released ??) has 16/256/3200 color IFF AND GIF converters, along with a slew of other conversions.No oense to John, but his converter is a bit slow (though not as slow as SHR Convert.) To solve this, I'm working on my own 16/256/3200 color GIF and IFF converter. I did some sample timings on a file called BLAST.GIF last night, and here's what I came up with: All of these times are to convert a 320x200x25GIF into 16 colors. John's conversion looked the best, followed VERY closely by mine, and SHR Convert's was the worst. (Interesting side note: SHR Convert plies some sort of dither to its conversions, probably in an attempt to enhance color resolution. Unfortunately it diminishes actualy resolution, and makes the images look kinda' fuzzy. You don't notice it unless you have something to compare with, though (at least I didn't :)) SHR Convert: 87 seconds TGE : 53 seconds Me: 12 seconds These were done with SHRConvert 2.1, a pre-release copy of TGE 4.2, and v0.1 of my program. While I'm writing a little novel on GIF conversion, I want to take the time to ask everyone "What are you looking for in a gif converter?" and "do you have a pet algorithm you'd like to see included?" I want to make this thing as powerful as possible, and to that end I'd like to include lots of options, features, etc. Anything suggestions for things you like to see tossed in would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks for the help/suggestions! Jonah Stich jonah@amos.ucsd.edu
johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz (John MacLean) (08/29/90)
>All of these times are to convert a 320x200x25GIF into 16 colors. John's >conversion looked the best, followed VERY closely by mine, and SHR Convert's >was the worst. > >SHR Convert: 87 seconds >TGE : 53 seconds >Me: 12 seconds > >These were done with SHRConvert 2.1, a pre-release copy of TGE 4.2, and v0.1 >of my program. There are good reasons for TGE suffering this speed loss. The most important being: 1) TGE is not a 320 x 200 => 320 x 200 converter. This makes things real easy. It lets you cut and paste and re-scale between any type and size graphics from icons to print shop borders to 3200 mode graphics to lo-res etc, etc. And it lets you manually map colors between source and destination and mask out colors as required. 2) TGE does not assume every graphic you get will have < 16 colors on a scanline (it stores and transfers every pixel as an RGB value). 3) TGE is extendable. Support for each mode is implemented as a toolset so that others (once I release the docs - which will be as soon as the first library disk is available) can add modules to TGE. I use the IIGS user toolbox interface (not the system toolbox) which *REALLY* slows things down (usually by a factor of 2 from some tests I did). This is the price you pay for *REAL* expandability. I do not have to re-compile TGE to add new modules to it and when I have had enough, others can take over. 4) I treat loading and optimizing GIFs as seperate operations which is really silly for a display program. TGE is not a display program - it is a conversion program which aims at getting the best posiible results. If you you try TGE on a 256 color GIF and optimize to 16 palettes you get static graphics as good as many 3200 graphics. I presume the figure quoted above was for a load + optimize. The optimize would not usually even be necessary unless you have more than 30 colors in the GIF. Having said all of this, there is an important role for a display (and even a file conversion) program such as Jonahs. It is good to be able to load a graphic and easily display it in various ways (ie: without doing transfers). A program dedicated to this purpose can do better than TGE - I have one in some sort of state myself. TGE can do all of this, but it is NOT a dedicated 320 x 200 IFF <-> SHR <-> GIF <-> 3200 converter, so it will generally be slower for the same quality. These represent only a small subset of TGEs functions. It will probably produce the best quality if you do not mind things a bit slower - and it can be just as quick if you just want a quick view of the graphic. TGE has several standard palette and grayscale toolsets which will let you do this at compareable times to Jonah's software. Just a quick question: Can you compare the Save times for SHR Convert, TGE, and your program for GIFs Jonah? John MacLean. -- This net: johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au Phone: +61 2 427 2999 That net: uunet!fawlty.towers.oz.au!johnmac Fax: +61 2 427 7072 Snail: Tower Technology, Unit D 31-33 Sirius Rd, Home: +61 2 960 1453 Lane Cove, NSW 2066, Australia.
jonah@amos.ucsd.edu (Jonah Stich) (08/30/90)
In article <443@fawlty.towers.oz> johnmac@fawlty.ips.oz (John MacLean) writes: Okay, let me fist say that my post was not intended to pick on TGE or SHR Convert. THese both serrve legitimate purposes--to convert picturs from x to y, where x and y are just about anything. That's not what GIF 3200 is for--it's for FAST conversioins of GIFs to 320 mode (I'll probably never support 640, though I WILL support pictures that are biggere than 320x200 in the next release) in 16, 256, and 3200 colors. That's it. >2) TGE does not assume every graphic you get will have < 16 colors on a >scanline (it stores and transfers every pixel as an RGB value). I don't get this one. GIF 3200 does this, too. It does the best conversion it can with pictures with 256 colors. (Note: I've written this new median-cut quantizer, and it blows the socks off the old ones. This things makes 16 color picturres that look as good as some 3200 color pictures I've seen. And you should see the 3200 color pitcures.... Coing in a few days to a newsfeed near you! :) >4) I treat loading and optimizing GIFs as seperate operations which is >really silly for a display program. TGE is not a display program - it >is a conversion program which aims at getting the best posiible >results. If you you try TGE on a 256 color GIF and optimize to 16 >palettes you get static graphics as good as many 3200 graphics. >I presume the figure quoted above was for a load + optimize. The >optimize would not usually even be necessary unless you have more >than 30 colors in the GIF. Granted. THe figures abover were for a picture of the space shuttle taking off, a 320x200x256/16777216 color graphic. It took 23 seconds to load into TGE, and another 32 seconds to scale the colors down to 16. GIF 3200 loaded and scaled in 12 seconds, with equivalent results. >Having said all of this, there is an important role for a display >(and even a file conversion) program such as Jonahs. It is good to >be able to load a graphic and easily display it in various ways >(ie: without doing transfers). A program dedicated to this purpose >can do better than TGE - I have one in some sort of state myself. True, very true. The important point here is not what one does another doesn't but that there are FINALLY more than one converters! (Uggghhh... my English teacher would kill me for that sentence! :) I hear thare are another few on the way, too. Did you ever think you'd be complaining about the GS having TOO MANY programs? :) >Just a quick question: >Can you compare the Save times for SHR Convert, TGE, and your program >for GIFs Jonah? Ah, I did some tests on this today. I saved a 32 color pic as a GIF in both TGE and SHR Convert. GIF 3200 doesn't do saves--only loads--so this isn't an issue. The times were: SHR Convert: 9 minutes exactly; TGE: 3 minutes, 30 seconds. Also, I must point out that when I reloaded the GIF, TGE had scaled it down to 5 colors, and SHR Convert doown to the 16 I was expecting. Then again, I have a beta version of TGE with no manual, so it was moore likely my fault than TGE's. In case you haven't noticed, I'm kinda fond of TGE: it really does convert from any x to y. When (if?) Roger Wagner ever brinigs out v4.2.x, rush out and buy a copy. It's WELL worth it! (Use GIF 3200 for your GIF conversions, though! :) >John MacLean. Jonah jonah@amos.ucsd.edu
philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (08/30/90)
In article <443@fawlty.towers.oz> johnmac@fawlty.ips.oz (John MacLean) writes:
[material related to graphics' interchange software]
This may be a bit off topic, but have you thought about the whole issue
of ANIM files(can be used for slide shows from a variety of sources),
and TIFF formats?
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
[my opinions]jonah@amos.ucsd.edu (Jonah Stich) (08/30/90)
In article <1990Aug30.055123.17754@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes: >In article <443@fawlty.towers.oz> johnmac@fawlty.ips.oz (John MacLean) writes: >[material related to graphics' interchange software] > >This may be a bit off topic, but have you thought about the whole issue >of ANIM files(can be used for slide shows from a variety of sources), >and TIFF formats? Well, I've told this to a lot of people in private EMail, so I may as well post it to the net. I want GIF 3200 to be the best conversion program for pictures with more than 16 colors in the color map. TO that end, I'm trying to collect formats (IFF, whaever.) My problem is that I don't have any pictures other than GIF's. What I need to support these extra formats are: a) format specs and b) sample pictures. If you'd like to see me support a format, please send me some sample pics on a 3.5" GS disk, along with at least a note saying which format this is and why I should support it, as well as any leads you can offer to help me track down the format specs. My address is: Jonah Stich 6 Lafayette West Princeton, NJ 08540 Also, it might be agood idea to send me EMail beforehand so that II can tell you if I've already gotten 15 disks of IFF pics, so you don't have to send another. Thanks!! >Philip McDunnough Jonah Stich jonah@amos.ucsd.edu
avery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) (09/04/90)
In article <12421@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>, jonah@amos.ucsd.edu (Jonah Stich) writes: > ask everyone "What are you looking for in a gif converter?" and "do you have > a pet algorithm you'd like to see included?" More layout memory reserved, perhaps some internal way of scoping out the memory on any given system on which the program is run. Also, I would love to see printer support, although I'm sure it is always hard, especially with color printers, to get just the right kind of color mapping. (I wouldn't think it would be too bad though, since the GS has only, what, 4096 possible hues (16 levels each of red green and blue)) -- Avery Ray Colter Internet: avery@netcom.uucp | {apple|claris}!netcom!avery o/~ Mama, mama, mama, keep those skinny girls at home, o/~ `Cause this skinny boy wants a BIG FAT BLONDE! - The Rainmakers