dalel@servio.UUCP (Dale LaFountain) (09/18/90)
Up here in Oregon, there is a chain of stores called the Software Pipeline. They "rent" software for 2-3 days, and cost from $4-$25 each to preview. They used to rent Apple software, but dropped that quite a while ago, and now stick to IBM and Amiga. (I've never seen so many games for one computer in my life! Over 250 titles for VGA IBM! I'd like to see 1/10 that for the GS. There are quite a few games for the GS; however, very few are what I would call "good" games). My question is: Isn't this a blatant example of promoting software piracy? I know that it can be seen as a good way to look at software without going through the hassle of buying and returning unliked software, but the temptation to just copy the program seems very great. I know someone who just bought an IBM clone, and doesn't think twice about installing every game he can on his HD when he rents it, and photocopies the manuals if necessary. The store even sells Copy II PC (they don't rent that one.... I wonder why :). They do, however, have a sign on the glass near the door. It is printed on a 4x6 card and reads "Federal law prohibits reproduction of the electronic media in this store". A real big deterrent, if you notice the sign at all (read sarcasm). I guess it all boils down to trust. Any form of copy protection devised can be broken by a handful of hackers throughout the world, so copy protection isn't the answer. Manuals can be photocopied, and photocopy- proof manuals can be typed into a word processor, so manual protection isn't really the answer either (although it is much more flexible for hard drive owners). People say that games cost too much, and the producers of games say that pirating drives the costs up (both of which are very true). Software companies need to lower their costs, and all of US need to be honest and show our support by buying that low-priced software. Then everyone would be happy. We would have more good games, because increased sales and revenue would promote further development in this area. I'm not saying that this hasn't been happening; I'm just saying that it needs to happen MORE. There will always be some hackers in the world who will crack games only hours after they are released. But the trust needs to start somewhere. But I digress... I know I'm speaking to the wrong crowd here, but I just had to raise my fist. We all have to grow up sometime, and that time was long ago. Sorry to have rambled for so long. Dale LaFountain Please Reply to: prophet@oxy.edu (The return address in the header will be invalid after tomorrow.)
kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) (09/18/90)
dalel@servio.UUCP (Dale LaFountain) writes: [example deleted] >I guess it all boils down to trust. Any form of copy protection devised >can be broken by a handful of hackers throughout the world, so copy >protection isn't the answer. Manuals can be photocopied, and photocopy- >proof manuals can be typed into a word processor, so manual protection >isn't really the answer either (although it is much more flexible for >hard drive owners). >People say that games cost too much, and the producers of games say that >pirating drives the costs up (both of which are very true). Software >companies need to lower their costs, and all of US need to be honest and >show our support by buying that low-priced software. Then everyone would >be happy. We would have more good games, because increased sales and revenue >would promote further development in this area. The big problem is that games cost too much to make in the first place. Hell, you can't put out a game like nethack in UNIX without a graphical interface to get people to buy it and play it, you need to spend money on programmers to write the game, artists to do the graphics so it look great, and the manufacturers and distributors and retailers to package, deliver and sell it. After all this, you can imagine where most of the money went. I know a few guys who decided to write a game, they ended up getting very little for their efforts and most of the money probably went to the manufacturer or the retailer or the people in-between. Its just that these days, you can't make a $10 game look good or package it to look good and still make a decent amount of money from it. What can we really do? If we can't afford it, we can't buy it, but if its a piece of crap, we don't want it anyway. Do we just quit making these games because we can't enough of them to make money? That's the way its looking to me now. A few years ago, there was tons of stuff being put out for the Apple II line, but you don't see the quanity of games you saw back them being put out now. Its pretty much down to a bunch of people who still can produce games for the machine and take a beating for it. I don't know about you, but I still place good money into those games if I think their worth it, like to Sir-Tech for their Wizardry series or Origins for the Ultima series and frown on people who pirate these games, because I really think that pirating these games will eventually take them out of the Apple II market. I had a chance to speak to Richard who makes the Ultima games at the Summer CES this year and he said he had about 1/2 the work done for the Apple II version of Ultima VI but ended up making it for the IBM compatables since it was more profitable in that market. It really hurts to know that a company is going to abandon you because of people who believe that the game costs too much when its really worth what they're charging for it. I really don't think U6 is going to come out for the Apple because of piracy and piracy will probably end up killing the Apple II market altogether. I'm not going to stand on the soapbox and say that people should stop pirating games because you know that someone out there is going to do it anyway and just sap the market (well, not only that but the fact that there aren't that many Apple II owners left to buy this stuff compared to a platform like the PCs and the Amigas). Enough said. Have a nice day. Bob Bob Kusumoto | Find the electric messiah! Internet: kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu | The AC/DC God! Bitnet: kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.bitnet | - My Life with the Thrill Kill UUCP: ...!{oddjob,gargoyle}!chsun1!kusumoto | Kult, "Kooler than Jesus"
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (09/19/90)
In article <kusumoto.653674169@chsun1> kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) writes: >charging for it. I really don't think U6 is going to come out for the Apple >because of piracy and piracy will probably end up killing the Apple II >market altogether. I'm not going to stand on the soapbox and say that >people should stop pirating games because you know that someone out there >is going to do it anyway and just sap the market (well, not only that but >the fact that there aren't that many Apple II owners left to buy this stuff >compared to a platform like the PCs and the Amigas). If you think that piracy in the IBM world isn't rampant, you are way off base. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) (09/21/90)
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >In article <kusumoto.653674169@chsun1> kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) writes: >>charging for it. I really don't think U6 is going to come out for the Apple >>because of piracy and piracy will probably end up killing the Apple II >>market altogether. I'm not going to stand on the soapbox and say that >>people should stop pirating games because you know that someone out there >>is going to do it anyway and just sap the market (well, not only that but >>the fact that there aren't that many Apple II owners left to buy this stuff >>compared to a platform like the PCs and the Amigas). >If you think that piracy in the IBM world isn't rampant, you are way off base. I'm not saying that piracy isn't a non-issue on any other platform, but if you compare the volume of sales for PC game (or an Amiga game, although I'm not quite sure on this one) and an Apple game, you're going to find out that more copies of the PC are sold, just on the fact that there are a hell of a lot more PC people out there actually buying the game compared to the number of people still buying apple games. I might be wrong in a few specific cases but I'm pretty sure that in general, software companies are making more money off the PC games than Apple games (why would they make the PC version of the games first? Some companies now have this policy of making the PC version first and other platforms later if time and sales permit). Just to go back to the example, how many copies of Ultima VI were sold since it came out for the PC? How many do you think are going to sell for the Apple II line? I don't have sales figures or the break even point for Origins but when you're in the business of making money, you gotta consider these things. Bob Bob Kusumoto | Find the electric messiah! Internet: kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu | The AC/DC God! Bitnet: kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.bitnet | - My Life with the Thrill Kill UUCP: ...!{oddjob,gargoyle}!chsun1!kusumoto | Kult, "Kooler than Jesus"
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (09/22/90)
In article <kusumoto.653853931@chsun1> kusumoto@chsun1.uchicago.edu (Bob Kusumoto) writes: >I'm not saying that piracy isn't a non-issue on any other platform, but if >you compare the volume of sales for PC game (or an Amiga game, although I'm >not quite sure on this one) and an Apple game, you're going to find out that >more copies of the PC are sold, just on the fact that there are a hell of >a lot more PC people out there actually buying the game compared to the >number of people still buying apple games. I might be wrong in a few specific >cases but I'm pretty sure that in general, software companies are making more >money off the PC games than Apple games (why would they make the PC version >of the games first? Some companies now have this policy of making the PC >version first and other platforms later if time and sales permit). Piracy sure isn't a non-issue on other platforms! One of my former housemates has an Amiga (and works at Apple.. I always think that's funny.. nothing wrong with it just funny) and has 1300+ disks of software for it. I only -wish- we had 1300 disks full of GS software to pirate or buy or do ANYTHING with! [And I don't mean trash like Gauntlet GS!] By the way, I believe I saw probably at least a hundred or two of these games for at least a few minutes a piece and many of those looked very good.. That's simply showing that for a fairly large sample (100-200), most of them weren't trashy games. That's not that I'm gonna go out and buy an Amiga, I just wish there were more quality games (AND business applications) for the GS. Rastan and many other relatively new GS games seem to be showing a little bit of renewed interest... -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \If cartoons were for adults, they'd be on in prime time./