[comp.sys.apple2] Apple IIe Modem Problem

c9c-cb@danube.Berkeley.EDU (Edward Wang) (09/10/90)

I recently bought a external modem and Super Serial Card for my Apple IIe.
I'm basically using the computer as a terminal to access the class computers
on campus.  However, I'm having problems.  I have a DataLink Express modem
put out by Applied Engineering.  It can do 300, 1200, or 2400 baud.  It
only works okay on 300 baud.  At any higher speed, characters start to
drop.  I get no garbage characters though.  The missing characters seem to
happen in three character blocks.  Does anyone know what's causing this?
Does this sound like a modem problem or serial card problem?

	By the way, there is definitely no problem with the campus's
computers.  My friends get perfect input on their modems.  Also, I am
positive that I've set all the switches on the serial card correctly.
Also, the serial card that I bought was not new and was probably built
in the early 1980's.  However, it is a genuine Apple product.


							Thanks,
							Edward Wang
 

whitewolf@gnh-starport.cts.com (Tae Song) (09/14/90)

Edward Wang writes:

|I recently bought a external modem and Super Serial Card for my Apple IIe.
|I'm basically using the computer as a terminal to access the class computers
|on campus.  However, I'm having problems.  I have a DataLink Express modem
|put out by Applied Engineering.  It can do 300, 1200, or 2400 baud.  It
|only works okay on 300 baud.  At any higher speed, characters start to
|drop.  I get no garbage characters though.  The missing characters seem to
|happen in three character blocks.  Does anyone know what's causing this?
|Does this sound like a modem problem or serial card problem?
|
|        By the way, there is definitely no problem with the campus's
|computers.  My friends get perfect input on their modems.  Also, I am
|positive that I've set all the switches on the serial card correctly.
|Also, the serial card that I bought was not new and was probably built
|in the early 1980's.  However, it is a genuine Apple product.
|
|
|                                                        Thanks,
|                                                        Edward Wang
|

Hahaha... geez... there's going to be a lot reply on this...

OK, yours is a simple problem, you need to enable the interrupts on the Super
Serial Card.  Someone will tell you exactly how since, I have a GS and don't
have to bother with these silly things...:)  called DIP switch...

Wanna know why there called DIP switches.... >:>   Just kidding...

DCS4@psuvm.psu.edu (Dave Shaffer) (09/15/90)

>Edward Wang writes:
>
>|I recently bought a external modem and Super Serial Card for my Apple IIe.
>|I'm basically using the computer as a terminal to access the class computers
>|on campus.  However, I'm having problems.  I have a DataLink Express modem
>|put out by Applied Engineering.  It can do 300, 1200, or 2400 baud.  It
>|only works okay on 300 baud.  At any higher speed, characters start to
>|drop.  I get no garbage characters though.  The missing characters seem to
>|happen in three character blocks.  Does anyone know what's causing this?
>|Does this sound like a modem problem or serial card problem?
>|
>|        By the way, there is definitely no problem with the campus's
>|computers.  My friends get perfect input on their modems.  Also, I am
>|positive that I've set all the switches on the serial card correctly.
>|Also, the serial card that I bought was not new and was probably built
>|in the early 1980's.  However, it is a genuine Apple product.

Is your IIe enhanced? I'm no expert on this, but I believe I
recall reading of similar problems faced by users of unenhanced
IIe models. I use an enhanced IIe with a 1200 buad datalinker
modem and have not experienced the loss of characters you described.

pyue@ria.ccs.uwo.ca (Paul Yue, CCS) (09/16/90)

Howdy,

This doesn't look like a hardware problem, but rather a hardware limitation.
Before I got my circa 1983 Apple ||e enhanced, it would lose a lot of
characters on the modem.  Apparently, its display ROM was a little too slow
to keep up with the transmission (this is just a guess).  The problem could
be solved by enabling flow control (XON/XOFF) on the communications software,
eg on Kermit 2.86 I would do
>set flow xon
>set flow delay 3c
From what I understand, flow control just uses ^S and ^Q to keep the incoming
data under control.

I don't know if the DIP switches can set this.  Someone else will have to
jump in.

BTW, I'm now happily punching away at an enhanced ||e, and there doesn't seem
to be any need for flow control at all.

See ya soon.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul K. Yue     pyue@{uwo.ca|nve.uwo.ca|uwovax.bitnet}   uunet!watmath!ria!pyue
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computing and Communications Services              Natural Sciences Centre, UWO
London, Ontario N6A 5B7 Canada          Voice:(519) 661-3525 FAX:(519) 661-3486

gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/16/90)

In article <90257.155707DCS4@psuvm.psu.edu> DCS4@psuvm.psu.edu (Dave Shaffer) writes:
>Is your IIe enhanced?

The 80-column firmware in the enhanced Apple //e did indeed reduce the
time during which interrupts were disabled while scrolling the display.

In general, high-speed input via a 2-character buffered USART requires
either an interrupt handler that moves the USART data into an external
input buffer, or frequent polling of the USART status in order to ditto
as soon as feasible.  The old 80-column firmware simply took too long
and incoming data could overrun the USART's tiny internal buffer while
the display was being scrolled.  Quite a few Apple II communication
programs therefore performed their own display management rather than
relying on Apple's built-in firmware.

There is a similar problem when attempting to write data to disk while
more data is arriving via USART; because the Disk II relies on exact
CPU cycle counts for the timing of data being written directly to the
disk, interrupts must be disabled for the duration of an entire block,
which is a serious problem when there is a high-speed source of
incoming data that must be captured before it is lost.

These problems were well known in general to the computing community
long before the Apple II was designed; however, the Apple II was meant
to be basically a single-user hobbyist ("toy") computer that could be
sold for a price that an individual could be expected to afford.  Thus,
the somewhat sophisticated techniques used to solve such problems in
real computers were omitted from the Apple II's design.  There have
been some improvements since then to alleviate the problem of
asynchronous (simultaneous channels of) I/O, as can be seen in the
support (such as it is) for application interrupt handlers in ProDOS
and in the addition of automatic buffering options in the IIGS firmware,
but probably compatibility considerations will prevent the problem from
being fully solved in any Apple II family member.

bill@braille.uwo.ca (Bill Carss) (09/17/90)

I have been telecommnuicating actively for only a few years (although 
primarily over the last year or so).  I have had this recording or
"capturing" problem with the DuoDisk and ProFile.  The only way I have
found to get around it is to establish a recording file in RAM.  That way
information can bdDe captrued as quickly as it arrives and then safely
transferred to disk at your convenience.

Of course, if there is any kind of power interuption before the info is 
saved, it is lost, but that has happened to moDe only a couple of times.

Bill Carss
bill@braille.uwo.ca  (Please note the upDDlower case)

tomk@pro-sol.cts.com (Tom Kelly) (09/20/90)

In-Reply-To: message from bill@braille.uwo.ca

It seems that if you turn interupts on and you software issues a control S
when its copy buffer gets full, that the host should wait while the copy
buffer is written to "disk" no matter what kind of disk it is.   After it has
been written out , the buffer is cleared and the software issues a control Q
and the host should resume sending.  That way nothing should ever be "lost".

gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (09/21/90)

In article <4526@crash.cts.com> tomk@pro-sol.cts.com (Tom Kelly) writes:
>It seems that if you turn interupts on and you software issues a control S
>when its copy buffer gets full, that the host should wait while the copy
>buffer is written to "disk" no matter what kind of disk it is.   After it has
>been written out , the buffer is cleared and the software issues a control Q
>and the host should resume sending.  That way nothing should ever be "lost".

In full-duplex operation, several more characters may arrive AFTER you
think you have sent the DC3 (^S) to block the transmitting system.  If
interrupts are off and frequent polling of the UART is not being done,
some of these incoming characters can indeed be lost.

tomk@pro-sol.cts.com (Tom Kelly) (09/23/90)

In-Reply-To: message from gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL

My explaination (sic?) was with interupts ON.   You describe it with interupts
OFF.   It would seem that we actually aggree!   Do we not?