unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (09/22/90)
In article <1990Sep22.055242.20803@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) writes: > > I guess what really upsets me most is I think the GS has a lot of potential. > >In article <5588@mace.cc.purdue.edu> asd@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth) writes: >>>In article <15362@yunexus.YorkU.CA> philip@yunexus.yorku.ca (Phil McDunnough) writes: >>> $500 box still multitasks (unlike ANY Apple), can still be upgraded >>> (unlike the PS/1). I'm not bashing Apple- I'm bashing "Anti-Amiga". Hey, LeapFrog GS allows multitasking on the GS.. I believe it's interrupt driven multitasking, but it's still multitasking > >>Or where are the Apple II programmers working on networking? TCP/IP? I >>know folks who are working on this for the Amiga. Or how about having >ever heard of ProLine? I will first say that I am now about to speak about something I know virtually nothing about. I realize it's not a very smart thing to do, but I'm an adult.. (Children, don't try this at home!) Isn't TCP/IP related to UUCP? If I'm even correct that they have something to do with each other, then I think I have something to say about this.. ProLine does not use UUCP. From what I understand, all messages run through some gateway machine that runs both UUCP and whatever (proprietary?) standard that Morgan Davis's using in ProLine. What I am interested in is true UUCP so that I could get permission from my school (I'm not saying they'd even do it, I just mean theoretically) and get my own newsfeed from the UNIX machine I have an account on. This would be for a BBS or something. One question about ProLine that I have is this though: Does every ProLine site in the country have to call up that one gateway (thus messages get out/in daily or hourly or whatever but potentially HUGE phone bills) or do messages 'jump' from one node to the next (thus possibly days or WEEKS until a message gets out/in)??? -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \If cartoons were for adults, they'd be on in prime time./
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (09/23/90)
In article <7085@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >Hey, LeapFrog GS allows multitasking on the GS.. I believe it's >interrupt driven multitasking, but it's still multitasking LWP-GS now works (a fellow net-person figured out what I did wrong, and is now working on enhancing it). > I will first say that I am now about to speak about something >I know virtually nothing about. I realize it's not a very smart thing >to do, but I'm an adult.. (Children, don't try this at home!) As Doug Gwyn is probably fond and/or tired of pointing out, don't speak about things which you know nothing about. > Isn't TCP/IP related to UUCP? If I'm even correct that they >have something to do with each other, then I think I have something to say >about this.. Not really. While packets may get sent using TCP/IP, each can exist without the other. > What I am interested in is true UUCP so that I could get >permission from my school (I'm not saying they'd even do it, I just >mean theoretically) and get my own newsfeed from the UNIX machine I have >an account on. This would be for a BBS or something. Get permission to read the news files (see if you can get an account on the news server machine). Then d/l them. > / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ..!ucbvax!cory!fadden
cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles William Swiger) (09/23/90)
> Isn't TCP/IP related to UUCP? If I'm even correct that >they have something to do with each other, then I think I >have something to say about this. > ProLine does not use UUCP. From what I understand, all >messages run through some gateway machine that runs both UUCP >and whatever (proprietary?) standard that Morgan Davis's >using in ProLine. > What I am interested in is true UUCP so that I could >get permission from my school (I'm not saying they'd even do >it, I just mean theoretically) and get my own newsfeed from >the UNIX machine I have an account on. This would be for a >BBS or something. > One question about ProLine that I have is this though: >Does every ProLine site in the country have to call up that >one gateway (thus messages get out/in daily or hourly or >whatever but potentially HUGE phone bills) or do messages >'jump' from one node to the next (thus possibly days or WEEKS >until a message gets out/in)??? TCP/IP stands for Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol. It a a protocol that can transmit information across the Internet network to one or more specific 4 digit Internet addresses, like 130.43.2.2 (Apple.Com) or 128.2.29.61 (circe.weh.andrew.cmu.edu - the machine I'm on now). These addresses are absolute and (for example) any Internet Post Office machine (which handles BBS's and mail) will try to send the requested information over the quickest path that it knows of. UUCP stands for Unix-to-Unix CoPy and uses relative addresses that must specify each node in the path in order to transmit information. So yes, they both are methods of transmitting data from machine A to machine B, although TCP is much, much better. The Proline system that I'm familiar with (pro-angmar, in Boston) uses a fast modem (9600 baud or so) that connects to a machine at one of the local colleges (BC, maybe). Apples aren't Unix machines, and they don't run UUCP. What Proline does is emulate UUCP over a phone line for specific purposes, namely what's required to run a BBS, mail server, and software library. If you've got an account on a Unix machine, and you've got access to either the Internet or Bitnet, then you could recieve the newsfeeds that are available from various sites on those networks. From what I've heard, the monthly phone bills for typical Proline sites are around 50 dollars. You'd have to talk to a Proline sysop for more infomation, of course. (Are any such people listening??? ;-) As for mail delivery times, that varies widely, depending on the network(s) involved, the quality (as in response time) of the mail servers along the way, etc. I can send mail to Internet sites across the country in about 5 minutes, some sites reachable only through UUCP or the Bitnet may take a day or longer. -- Charles William Swiger cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu
daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com (Dave Harvey) (09/24/90)
In-Reply-To: message from unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU In-Reply-To: message from unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU > One question about ProLine that I have is this though: Does every > ProLine site in the country have to call up that one gateway (thus > messages get out/in daily or hourly or whatever but potentially HUGE phone > bills) or do messages 'jump' from one node to the next (thus possibly > days or WEEKS until a message gets out/in)??? No, every site in the country doesn't have to call up that one gateway. In actuality, there is more than one gateway. Messages do jump from one node to another but messages don't take days or weeks. Delay is usually measured in hours not days. Mail is exchanged between Proline sites during evenings and weekends when long distance costs are low. proline: pro-novapple!daveharv | uucp: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv | Pro-novapple BBS arpa: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv@nosc.mil | 300/1200/2400/9600 Baud Internet: daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com | 703-671-0416 | Northern Virginia Apple Users Group | P.O. Box 8211, Falls Church, VA 22041 |
rich@pro-exchange.cts.com (Rich Sims) (09/25/90)
In-Reply-To: message from unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU > One question about ProLine that I have is this though: Does every > ProLine site in the country have to call up that one gateway (thus > messages get out/in daily or hourly or whatever but potentially HUGE phone > bills) or do messages 'jump' from one node to the next (thus possibly > days or WEEKS until a message gets out/in)??? First of all, your "understanding" is incorrect in several respects. There is not "one" gateway, there are several. No, each ProLine site does not have to connect directly to a gateway site, since the ProLine network consists of interconnected sites. If traffic is to be received through a gateway, at least one site must connect to it, though, and then feed other sites, which in turn feed others. As to potentially huge phone bills, well, I'm not sure how connections to a particular site or sites are related to that. The phone bills are dictated by the amount of traffic being moved, and the speed at which it's moved, as well as the cost of the phone service you're using. (AT&T, PC Pursuit, local calls, etc.) These are all dial-up lines, and the cost is determined by how much time is spent using them, as with any other dial-up arrangement. (You are not under the impression that *ANY* of this is "free", are you?") Yes, messages (and files) 'jump' from one node to the next. It does not, however, follow that it will take days or WEEKS [your emphasis] for a message to get through, any more than the same thing would be true of the Internet. There will always be a "time lag", but it's dictated by the frequency of connections and the number of hops required, in either case. Lastly, it's not necessary, in all cases, to connect through a gateway system. Several ProLine sites connect directly to *NIX machines without the "gateway" software running on them. It does require some cooperation from the site administrator, and the use of some shell scripting. This is primarily used for newsgroup articles, and I don't know if the current implementation is, or can be modified to be, capable of handling mail messages. This is not "uucp", though, which I don't believe can be correctly implemented with the machines/environment used to run the ProLine systems.
paul@nuchat.UUCP (Paul Hutmacher) (09/25/90)
In article <7085@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > One question about ProLine that I have is this though: Does every > ProLine site in the country have to call up that one gateway (thus > messages get out/in daily or hourly or whatever but potentially HUGE phone > bills) or do messages 'jump' from one node to the next (thus possibly > days or WEEKS until a message gets out/in)??? That's a good question and worth an answer from an ex-Proline sysop. Proline systems can talk to each other utilizing their own mdss protocol which involve sending messages back and forth via xmodem. If you want to get a message outside the Proline network and into internet (or whatever the net is called these days -- check the Houston Chronicle for the proper term) you've got to tie into a pnet system which is the gateway you've heard of. The Pnet system is run from a unix platform and was designed by Bill Blue of ASCII Express fame. Messsages do indeed hop from node to node but generally are delivered in one to two days if all the sites really have the connections they say they do in their maps. Proline is an awesome product and is a blast to run. It supports usenet newsgroups and its own internal style networked news. About the only real drawback to running Proline is it is stuck with xmodem as the only file protocol and high speed modems like the v.32's and HST's are hobbled by the small packet sizes. However, I look for improvements in that area sooner or later as Morgan Davis is constantly tweaking his product. If you'd like information on the Proline package you can contact Morgan himself at mdavis@pro-sol.cts.com and I'll bet he'd mail you all kinds of stuff. If you'd like more rave reviews from an ex-sysop mail me ;) -- paul@nuchat.UUCP {uhnix1, uunet}!nuchat!paul paul%nuchat.uucp@uhnix1.uh.edu
penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark Steiger) (09/25/90)
I am on the ProLine network. The way it works is I call 2 sites daily from
here. My mail is sent through one of the 2, depending on which site is closer
to the final destination. I have a file that they make on a UNIX which
determins which mail addresses should be sent to which machine. Our messages
are then sent through PNET nodes, then through !crash! then out to whoever
gets them. Unless they are on the ProLine network, then it gets delivered
straight to them without going through crash.
Understand? :)
Mark
[ Mark Steiger, Sysop, The Igloo 218/262-3142 300/1200/2400 baud]
ProLine.:penguin@gnh-igloo America Online: Goalie5
UUCP....:crash!gnh-igloo!penguin MCI Mail......: MSteiger
Internet:penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com
ARPA....:crash!gnh-igloo!penguin@nosc.mil
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