shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com (Andy Nicholas) (09/24/90)
I'm going to take a small poll here -- one of the things that I think would be cool to see in a new IIGS (this is very presumptuous, to be sure) would be a built-in Video Overlay Card. Think about it -- something like that would give the IIGS a multimedia lead over almost every other platform out there. Plus, existing owners wouldn't get stuck with something obsolete because they could just run out and buy a VOC if they didn't want to get a whole new CPU. Long ago when the VOC came out, I vaguely recall someone telling me that a lot of the video circuitry on the VOC was duplicated on the GS motherboard... if this is true, then it really might not be an enormous expense to include it. At the very least, you could have the kid who buys a new box watch TV while playing rastan -- at the very best, you could whip something up for HyperStudio or any of the other Hyper-Multimedia-stuff. Anyone love this idea? Anyone hate it? Anyone think I'm loony? Part of the rationale behind this is that if apple can't give us the 100 Mhz GS the next time around, maybe they could make up for parts of its shortcomings by building in the VOC. Hmmm... gee, then you really -could- go a Dragon's Lair/GS or other Laserdisk type game. andy PROLINE: pro-novapple!shrinkit UUCP: crash!pro-novapple!shrinkit ARPA: crash!pro-novapple!shrinkit@nosc.mil INET: shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com
rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (09/24/90)
shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com writes... >I'm going to take a small poll here -- one of the things that I think would be >cool to see in a new IIGS (this is very presumptuous, to be sure) would be a >built-in Video Overlay Card. Think about it -- something like that would give >the IIGS a multimedia lead over almost every other platform out there. Plus, >existing owners wouldn't get stuck with something obsolete because they could >just run out and buy a VOC if they didn't want to get a whole new CPU. Long >ago when the VOC came out, I vaguely recall someone telling me that a lot of >the video circuitry on the VOC was duplicated on the GS motherboard... if this >is true, then it really might not be an enormous expense to include it. Cost...always the bottom line. It IS a pretty interesting idea though. If the ewnough people use a GS for mutli-media then I could see it going over very well. It's not that people don't use them for that purpose, but it seems to me that most people out there use an Amiga for that sort of thing. I know a few people who work with a local cable group (they do local sports, etc.) and they wanted to do subtitles and credits on their work, so they wen tout and LOOKED at Apple equipment, but ultimately bought an Amiga set-up because of the programs it had already geared for video editing. (Personally, I'd have loved to see Baudville develop Take-1 GS... Take-1 for the //e is an absolutely awesome program...anyone remember that? >At the very least, you could have the kid who buys a new box watch TV while >playing rastan -- at the very best, you could whip something up for >HyperStudio or any of the other Hyper-Multimedia-stuff. >Anyone love this idea? Anyone hate it? Anyone think I'm loony? >Part of the rationale behind this is that if apple can't give us the 100 Mhz >GS the next time around, maybe they could make up for parts of its >shortcomings by building in the VOC. I'm with the rest of the group... the GS IS a good machine... it's potential just hasn't been tapped by the masses yet. >Hmmm... gee, then you really -could- go a Dragon's Lair/GS or other Laserdisk >type game. Now there's something I would buy despite cost! >andy /\___________________________________________________________/\ \// \\/ // Randy Vose - University of Illinois at Champaign/Urbana \\ \\ rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu // /\___________________________________________________________/\ \/ \/ WARNING: For the protection of your equipment, lower levels are recommended for initial playback until you're sure we aren't kidding. (Warning label on Telarc DDD CD's...)
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (09/24/90)
>maybe they could make up for parts of its shortcomings by building int >the VOC. >Anyone love this idea? Anyone hate it? Anyone think I'm loony? Loony? Hmmmmmm... Nah! That's a pretty good idea. Maybe they could do the same for the //e and //c and HEY, how 'bout the Mac? Nah! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | This is your brain... | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | This is your brain on drugs... | pro-line: | | This is your brain on whole wheat.| mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |____________________________________|_______________________________|
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (09/25/90)
In article <15507.netnews.info-apple@pro-novapple> shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com (Andy Nicholas) writes: >I'm going to take a small poll here -- one of the things that I think would be >cool to see in a new IIGS (this is very presumptuous, to be sure) would be a >built-in Video Overlay Card. Think about it -- something like that would give >the IIGS a multimedia lead over almost every other platform out there. Plus, >existing owners wouldn't get stuck with something obsolete because they could >just run out and buy a VOC if they didn't want to get a whole new CPU. Long >ago when the VOC came out, I vaguely recall someone telling me that a lot of >the video circuitry on the VOC was duplicated on the GS motherboard... if this >is true, then it really might not be an enormous expense to include it. What an awesome idea. Not only would it do wonders for IIgs graphics, but the fact that it has benefits for the educational market would make Apple actually consider it. Comments from Apple employees? >andy -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ..!ucbvax!cory!fadden
rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) (09/25/90)
shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com (Andy Nicholas) writes: >I'm going to take a small poll here -- one of the things that I think would be >cool to see in a new IIGS (this is very presumptuous, to be sure) would be a >built-in Video Overlay Card. Think about it -- something like that would give >[stuff deleted] Anyone love this idea? Anyone hate it? Anyone think I'm loony? I think its a great idea, I don't know what it would add in terms of cost but it would go a long way toward overcomming the graphics of the GS. If it were built in developers would know that everybody with the new machine would have the capability and they would produce more software for it. >Part of the rationale behind this is that if apple can't give us the 100 Mhz >GS the next time around, maybe they could make up for parts of its >shortcomings by building in the VOC. >Hmmm... gee, then you really -could- go a Dragon's Lair/GS or other Laserdisk >type game. Since probably everyone who has a GS has a VCR, I think you would see a lot of VCR stuff. A simple controller plugged into the VCR can be used for GS control. While its not as fast or interactive as a laserdisc, its cheap. >Rick andy >PROLINE: pro-novapple!shrinkit >UUCP: crash!pro-novapple!shrinkit >ARPA: crash!pro-novapple!shrinkit@nosc.mil >INET: shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com
vw3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Vernon Williams) (09/25/90)
I would go for a built-in VOC (though only if it would work with 3200 color graphics :-)) I'd like built-in SCSI support too though then you could have it run a CD ROM (which can store video too) as well. Anyonw see the TURBO GRAPHICS games...imagine letting somthing like that out on multimedia people! -----------------------------+------------------------------------------------- Vernon L. Williams | Electronic Mail: vw3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu Thomas J. Watson Library | Campus Mail: 130 Uris Hall Columbia University | Phone Mail: 212-854-6798
seah@ee.rochester.edu (David Seah) (09/26/90)
In article <139800027@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com writes... >>[Would built-in VOC be a cool idea?] > >Cost...always the bottom line. It IS a pretty interesting idea though. If the >ewnough people use a GS for mutli-media then I could see it going over very >well. It's not that people don't use them for that purpose, but it seems to >me that most people out there use an Amiga for that sort of thing. I know a >few people who work with a local cable group (they do local sports, etc.) and >they wanted to do subtitles and credits on their work, so they wen tout and >LOOKED at Apple equipment, but ultimately bought an Amiga set-up because of >the programs it had already geared for video editing. I visited a public-access cable station (cool places!) and they used Amigas for all their titling and Video bulletin board stuff. It was interesting to compare the quality of their video bulletin board to the Cable Company BBoard. The cable folks used some kind of high-end graphics board (either VGA or MacII) that just couldn't scroll WELL. Looked nice when the pictures weren't moving, but when they moved it was really painful. The public-access cable company's Amigas had less colorful graphics (can't compare with 24-bit color), but scrolled nice. I guess this wouldn't bother people who weren't interested in animation. >(Personally, I'd have >loved to see Baudville develop Take-1 GS... Take-1 for the //e is an >absolutely awesome program...anyone remember that? Take-1 was my number one program! The drawing module wasn't fancy, but it worked the best of any paint program of the time. It had a rock-solid pixel editor, and the Actor capability could be used much in the same was that Brushes are used in DeluxePaint. Most other paint programs of that era used the Joystick in an "absolute positioning" mode...the 8-bit range of the axis were mapped directly onto the screen. This kind of thing really bites if you have a dying joystick that can't hold a value or your joystick uses nonlinear potentiometers (ie: cheap joysticks). >>Part of the rationale behind this is that if apple can't give us the 100 Mhz >>GS the next time around, maybe they could make up for parts of its >>shortcomings by building in the VOC. > >I'm with the rest of the group... the GS IS a good machine... it's potential >just hasn't been tapped by the masses yet. I think that the GS has enormous potential as THE General Purpose personal computer, but its hardware could use some polishing-up. By that I really mean Faster, Smoother, and more Colorful, and maybe Less Noisy. Right now, if I were to make a perhaps unqualified analogy, the GS is like a pre-Star Wars space-blastem movie. You get a lot of guys in aluminum-foil suits waking around with shaving-cream blasters. There's a lot of static scenes and the action can be peculiarly "linear". The camera shakes around when it moves...you don't notice it really, but it does have an effect on the, er, "etherality" or suspense-building aspects of a shot (I believe). There are many fine movies with good special effects (2001: A Space Odyssey comes to mind), but from a sheer "action-oriented programming" point of view, they aren't comparable. I think you could do a "Space Odyssey" type of animation on the GS....slow, majestic, and monochromatic. But could you do the Battle of Endor from "Return of the Jedi" (without that 160Meg HD and DMA-SCSI card :)? The screen-write speed limitations of the GS restrict the effective amount of fast 'n smooth animation you can do before getting motion aliasing effects. But I begin to repeat all that we've been crying out for all over again... Oh yes...built in VOC *is* a good idea :) -- Dave Seah | Omnidyne Systems-M | INET: seah@ee.rochester.edu | | "User-Friendly Killing Machines" | America Online: AFC DaveS | ^..^ +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
cse0507@desire.wright.edu (10/03/90)
In article <1990Sep25.010511.17223@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: > shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com (Andy Nicholas) writes: > >>I'm going to take a small poll here -- one of the things that I think would be >>cool to see in a new IIGS (this is very presumptuous, to be sure) would be a >>built-in Video Overlay Card. Think about it -- something like that would give > >>[stuff deleted] > > Anyone love this idea? Anyone hate it? Anyone think I'm loony? > > I think its a great idea, I don't know what it would add in terms of > cost but it would go a long way toward overcomming the graphics of the > GS. If it were built in developers would know that everybody with the > new machine would have the capability and they would produce more > software for it. > >>Part of the rationale behind this is that if apple can't give us the 100 Mhz >>GS the next time around, maybe they could make up for parts of its >>shortcomings by building in the VOC. > >>Hmmm... gee, then you really -could- go a Dragon's Lair/GS or other Laserdisk >>type game. The main problem I think would be the cost. I would hate to force everybody to pay an extra $300 for something they may not use. Maybe offer 2 flavors, one machine with VOC and one without.
cse0507@desire.wright.edu (10/03/90)
In article <1990Sep25.033125.26480@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>, vw3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Vernon Williams) writes: > I would go for a built-in VOC (though only if it would work with 3200 color > graphics :-)) I'd like built-in SCSI support too though then you could have it > run a CD ROM (which can store video too) as well. Anyonw see the TURBO GRAPHICS > games...imagine letting somthing like that out on multimedia people! I think a built in SCSI port would be much more usefull if I had a choice between it and a VOC. GS/OS like the Mac OS is very disk intensive and is really a pain to operate without a hard disk. I survived with two 3.5" disks for a while, but it is so much better on a hard disk. There just isn't room for a full system on an 800k disk. Maybe if Apple produced a Smartport compatible 1.44 MB 3.5" drive and software drivers the SCSI port wouldn't be as neccissary.
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (10/04/90)
In article <1352.2708c380@desire.wright.edu> cse0507@desire.wright.edu writes: >In article <1990Sep25.010511.17223@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, rnf@shumv1.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) writes: >> shrinkit@pro-novapple.cts.com (Andy Nicholas) writes: >> >>>I'm going to take a small poll here -- one of the things that I think would be >>>cool to see in a new IIGS (this is very presumptuous, to be sure) would be a >>>built-in Video Overlay Card. Think about it -- something like that would give >> >The main problem I think would be the cost. I would hate to force everybody >to pay an extra $300 for something they may not use. Maybe offer 2 flavors, >one machine with VOC and one without. Wrong. Designing the new "VOC" motherboard would be cake, since most of the GS's video circuitry was reproduced on the VOC. Try around $50, and that figure is easily swallowable by a much needed price reduction. -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! | (B O'Cult) Apple II Users Unite! Storm the New Product Announcement and Demand Justice!