johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz (John MacLean) (10/05/90)
I for one have my money waiting for a 17 MHz ASIC 65816 if they can ever
produce. Given that they are supposed to meet power supply requirements
for the Transwarp, all you need to replace are the processor, the
crystal, and the static RAMs to get upwards of 13 MHz.
According to the article recently posted, 15ns static RAMs are required
at 13 Mhz; does anyone know just how fast you can get static RAMs, how
expensive they are, and just how fast would you have to go to get even
faster speeds out of the Transwarp (say around 15 - 17 Mhz)?
Is the piggyback board (containing the static RAMs) on the Transwarp
simple enough to replace cheaply by a third (forth?) party (or does it
contain some of the Transwarps logic)? If not, any upgrade will require
soldering (YUK - most people will not do that themselves - especially
with no guarentee).
Some enterprising citizen might like to get together the required parts
(with a socketed piggy back board built up if at all possible) and sell
them as a Transwarp upgrade kit. A few phone calls to some suppliers
with some bulk discounts, an add in one or two of the remaining Apple II
magizines and you could probably make a killing.
Can anyone answer any of these questions (please don't bother responding
with "I want one too" - reading through such responses is almost as bad
as reading through all the bitching {justified or not}).
John MacLean.
--
This net: johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au Phone: +61 2 427 2999
That net: uunet!fawlty.towers.oz.au!johnmac Fax: +61 2 427 7072
Snail: Tower Technology, Unit D 31-33 Sirius Rd, Home: +61 2 960 1453
Lane Cove, NSW 2066, Australia.jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (10/05/90)
In article <520@fawlty.towers.oz> johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz (John MacLean) writes: >I for one have my money waiting for a 17 MHz ASIC 65816 if they can ever >produce. Given that they are supposed to meet power supply requirements >for the Transwarp, all you need to replace are the processor, the >crystal, and the static RAMs to get upwards of 13 MHz. >According to the article recently posted, 15ns static RAMs are required >at 13 Mhz; does anyone know just how fast you can get static RAMs, how >expensive they are, and just how fast would you have to go to get even >faster speeds out of the Transwarp (say around 15 - 17 Mhz)? There are beasties out there called "ECL RAM" (Emitter coupled Logic) that operate in the 6-8ns range. That's SIX to EIGHT, not 68. They are somewhat expensive, however. In any case, going from 13-17mhz would require only a few extra ns. >John MacLean. >-- >This net: johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au Phone: +61 2 427 2999 >That net: uunet!fawlty.towers.oz.au!johnmac Fax: +61 2 427 7072 >Snail: Tower Technology, Unit D 31-33 Sirius Rd, Home: +61 2 960 1453 > Lane Cove, NSW 2066, Australia. -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! | (B O'Cult) Apple II Users Unite! Storm the New Product Announcement and Demand Justice!
6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) (10/05/90)
Unfortunately you can't just pop in the asic, s;lide in some static rams, and get 13+ mhz. The TWGS needs more power to run at 10 mhz+. The ASIC by ASIC ;) doesn't fit in a standard 65816. Its got some extra sockets or something. The static rams on a TWGS aren't easily replaced (require resoldering). I've got a 9 mhz twgs like lots of other people but the only person I know with a 12+ is bill heineman. Nuff said. ;) btw, the Zip Chip is supposedly easier to upgrade, and they claim their chip can handle up to 20 mhz. Again, the ASIC Ent.'s 65816 doesn't fit in a standard 65816 socket, so still modifications by Zip would have to be made to support it. btw, this is what I remember from a chat w/ asic, I myself can barely comprehend what a socket is.
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (10/06/90)
Parik, I read that chat a while back -- the real story is that the ASIC 65816 can directly replace the WDC 65816 in both the transwarp and the Zip but not the motherboard. This presents no problems to those of us who are planning to use the chip to upgrade our accelerators (mine will be a Zip GS). A socket, BTW, is what your TWGS's 65816 is sitting in... (While I have your attention, thanks for BGSound... I love it!) Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
bbs@bluemoon.UUCP (BBS login) (10/06/90)
According to Tony Faddell, the ASIC 65816 clone will be pin-compatible with the real 65816. And it should be able to pop right into the TransWarp. If I remember correctly, the power boost on a TransWarp was required only to get a 10 Mhz 65816 to run at 13 Mhz. If you have a part designed to run at the desired speed you shouldn't need to boost the power. But you may need to expand the cache. The TW GS's cache is pretty small, and I believe you won't see much difference between 13 and 17 Mhz on the TW GS because of it. BTW, let's stop calling ASIC's 65816 clone "the ASIC". ASIC is a generic acronym for "Application Specific Integrated Circuit". Almost any board which has custom chips on it uses ASICs. ASIC Enterprises picked a lousy name for their company, IMHO, since their 65816 clone will not be application-specific at all. JK
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/08/90)
In article <520@fawlty.towers.oz> johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz (John MacLean) writes: >I for one have my money waiting for a 17 MHz ASIC 65816 if they can ever >produce. Given that they are supposed to meet power supply requirements >for the Transwarp, all you need to replace are the processor, the >crystal, and the static RAMs to get upwards of 13 MHz. >According to the article recently posted, 15ns static RAMs are required >at 13 Mhz; does anyone know just how fast you can get static RAMs, how >expensive they are, and just how fast would you have to go to get even >faster speeds out of the Transwarp (say around 15 - 17 Mhz)? Since one cycle is the fastest memory can be theoretically accessed (I think it's not that fast on the Apple II and/or IIGS, but this will give minimum levels ever necessary), I figured out how fast the RAM'd have to be to support 17 megahertz by doing the simple calculation 1/17000000 on my HP calculator! (Hey, I always gotta give them a free ad! HP calculators are the best! Reverse Polish Notation! YEAH!) That gives about 59 nanoseconds.. I just remembered that on the previous Apple IIs at least, you had to get memory for a speed of the CPU that was twice the real CPU's speed. So presuming that's still true on the GS, 29 nanoseconds is fast enough for 17 megahertz. For 25 megahertz, the RAM'd have to be 20 nanoseconds as the lowest value needed for one cycle/access. -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (10/08/90)
In article <5Hkmq1w163w@bluemoon.UUCP> bbs@bluemoon.UUCP (BBS login) writes: >BTW, let's stop calling ASIC's 65816 clone "the ASIC". ASIC is a generic >acronym for "Application Specific Integrated Circuit". Almost any board >which has custom chips on it uses ASICs. ASIC Enterprises picked a lousy >name for their company, IMHO, since their 65816 clone will not be >application-specific at all. Yeah--even my IIe uses ASICs (the MMU and IOU, if you're wondering.) :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/08/90)
In article <7587@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >1/17000000 on my HP calculator! While that is a portion of the requisite calculation, the actual specs need to be determined by a variety of factors, most of which are contained in the hardware reference manual (although it doesn't try to teach you digital circuit design). Don't rely on such a simplistic calculation..