[comp.sys.apple2] APW 2.0

ghost@bucsf.bu.edu (Jay Adelson) (10/10/90)

Does anyone know if the latest version of APW C / APW environment has
been released? And if not, can someone tell me why I should wait for
2.0, or if it doesn't matter, or any other information regarding APW
versions which may effect my decision of investing? APDA has nothing
to say on this subject.

--
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[   Jay Adelson        | BIX: j.adelson   ]  [   T.G.C.                       ]
[   ghost@bucsf.bu.edu | Channel One:     ]  [   1039 Commonwealth Ave. #18   ]
[   GEnie: J.ADELSON1  |    Jay Adelson   ]  [   Boston, MA. 02215-1008       ]

unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/10/90)

In article <GHOST.90Oct9144350@bucsf.bu.edu> ghost@bucsf.bu.edu (Jay Adelson) writes:
>Does anyone know if the latest version of APW C / APW environment has
>been released? And if not, can someone tell me why I should wait for
>2.0, or if it doesn't matter, or any other information regarding APW
>versions which may effect my decision of investing? APDA has nothing
>to say on this subject.
	
	Someone told me a few hours ago in mail that APW support/updates
was quietly stopped (over the summer? I forget.. not tooooo long ago)..

	They now recommend people get/use Orca/C

	From what I understand, APW C is basically an all text oooooold
version of ORCA/C.. Isn't that right?  ByteWorks wrote APW C and sold it
to Apple and then they just updated it a lot into their own ORCA/C...

	Any basis in fact?

-- 
/               Apple II(GS) Forever!    unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu               \
\"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/

toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (10/10/90)

unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes:

>	They now recommend people get/use Orca/C

>	From what I understand, APW C is basically an all text oooooold
>version of ORCA/C.. Isn't that right?  ByteWorks wrote APW C and sold it
>to Apple and then they just updated it a lot into their own ORCA/C...


Yep. Apple found that too much the APW code was owned by byteworks, meaning
that many of the modifications they wanted to make would have to put up with
stupid legal delays, whereas MPW (which was originally a conceptual ripoff
of APW but is now a very respectable development environment) development could
proceed full speed ahead since everyone working on it was in-house.

Apple has given up trying to make APW reasonable and they now advocate either
MPW IIGS or ORCA for GS application development.

Todd Whitesel
toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu

dlyons@Apple.COM (David A. Lyons) (10/10/90)

In article <7666@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes:
>Someone told me a few hours ago in mail that APW support/updates
>was quietly stopped (over the summer? I forget.. not tooooo long ago)..

I don't think it was especially quiet.  APW and ORCA were always nearly
identical, and APW was always developed by the Byte Works.

>From what I understand, APW C is basically an all text oooooold
>version of ORCA/C.. Isn't that right?  ByteWorks wrote APW C and sold it
>to Apple and then they just updated it a lot into their own ORCA/C...

No.  MegaMax wrote APW C.  ORCA/C is completely separate and conforms to
the ANSI C standard (or comes very close).
-- 
David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc.      |   DAL Systems
Apple II Developer Technical Support      |   P.O. Box 875
America Online: Dave Lyons                |   Cupertino, CA 95015-0875
GEnie: D.LYONS2 or DAVE.LYONS         CompuServe: 72177,3233
Internet/BITNET:  dlyons@apple.com    UUCP:  ...!ames!apple!dlyons
   
My opinions are my own, not Apple's.

phs172m@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Stephen Harker) (10/10/90)

In article <7666@darkstar.ucsc.edu>, unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes:
[Inquiry re APW 2.0]
> 	
> 	Someone told me a few hours ago in mail that APW support/updates
> was quietly stopped (over the summer? I forget.. not tooooo long ago)..
> 
> 	They now recommend people get/use Orca/C
> 
> 	From what I understand, APW C is basically an all text oooooold
> version of ORCA/C.. Isn't that right?  ByteWorks wrote APW C and sold it
> to Apple and then they just updated it a lot into their own ORCA/C...
> 
> 	Any basis in fact?

	A dump of a Genie conference was posted to this group several months
ago.  In this conference Apple reps stated that it had been decided that APW
2.0 would be shipped as ORCA 2.0 when it was available.  The major difference
between the products up to now having been in extra features, the shell being
further developed in the ORCA product at present.  Apple's contribution to the
shell in future will be the add on features in their APW tools etc. disk from
APDA.  (These comments are from memory, and are probably not completely
accurate)

APW C is a different product from ORCA/C.  APW C was written for Apple by
Megamax, and has not been substantially upgraded other than in tool interfaces.  
APW C does not fully support the PRIZM environment (eg debugging) if that is
what you mean by all text.

ORCA/C is a different product that was written by Byte Works as an ANSI C
somewhat compromised to be able to compile previous APW C code with little or
no code changes.
-- 
Stephen Harker
Monash University

spock@wrkof.incom.de (Martin Georg) (10/10/90)

B
Keywords: 

In article <GHOST.90Oct9144350@bucsf.bu.edu> ghost@bucsf.bu.edu (Jay Adelson) writes:
>
>Does anyone know if the latest version of APW C / APW environment has
>been released? And if not, can someone tell me why I should wait for
>2.0, or if it doesn't matter, or any other information regarding APW
>versions which may effect my decision of investing? APDA has nothing
>to say on this subject.
>
>--
>"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>[   Jay Adelson        | BIX: j.adelson   ]  [   T.G.C.                       ]
>[   ghost@bucsf.bu.edu | Channel One:     ]  [   1039 Commonwealth Ave. #18   ]
>[   GEnie: J.ADELSON1  |    Jay Adelson   ]  [   Boston, MA. 02215-1008       ]

As long as I know, Apple announced a few months ago that it will not do
further development on the APW environment, because a new version would
always require a new license agreement with ByteWorks, the original in-
ventor of APW (with it's ORCA-System). But Byteworks plans to do a 2.0
version of ORCA and they already released some chapters of the ORCA 2.0
manual with their product updates (as well as APple did with their Tools
and Interfaces for System Software 5.02, just before development on APW
was stopped....)

Martin Georg
Frankfurt, Germany
----> Apple II forever! <----

gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/11/90)

In article <GHOST.90Oct9144350@bucsf.bu.edu> ghost@bucsf.bu.edu (Jay Adelson) writes:
>Does anyone know if the latest version of APW C / APW environment has
>been released?

I don't know if Apple has any plans for further improvements in APW C,
but APW itself is not going to be further developed by Apple.  Instead,
ByteWorks' ORCA development system will be the route for further
enhancement.  ORCA 2.0 is not yet available.  Apple HAS released some
utilities for use with APW recently, including for example a resource
compiler, and those are available as usual through ADPA.  Apple has
also updated the toolbox interface files recently.

gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/11/90)

In article <7666@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes:
>	From what I understand, APW C is basically an all text oooooold
>version of ORCA/C.. Isn't that right?  ByteWorks wrote APW C and sold it
>to Apple and then they just updated it a lot into their own ORCA/C...

No.  APW C was developed under contract by Megamax, starting from a
"Small-C" implementation, while ORCA/C was developed independently
by ByteWorks, starting with ORCA/Pascal.

APW itself (i.e. the shell) was developed under contract by ByteWorks,
who also marketed it under the ORCA trademark.