CMDSEN@PRIMEG.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (10/05/90)
I hope enough feelings and frustrations have been expressed already, so we can get back to some computer business on this net :-) (No flames, please) Two Mac/HFS disk readers in Beta form have been posted in recent months, a2fx and hfslink. Can anyone give some comparison of the two, or constructive critisms? A little feedback would strenghthen the two products. I've only tried them as a test on a Mac file. Both seemed to extract the data(fork) fine for the text I wanted. How do they compare in general, and for files other than text? I'm thinking sounds, stacks, etc. Another topic: 3.5" disks for Apple IIe. I've been very unhappy with my UDC and Laser 3.5 drives. Has anyone used AMR drives and controller? Is it reliable? Has anyone used AE drives and controller? Is it reliable? Has anyone compared the two? Which would you recommend : Apple UniDisk 3.5, AMR 3.5, or AE 3.5? Topic 3: I've ordered PlusWorks III to try Appleworks 3.0 on a IIPlus. Is anyone interested in a review/report? My ALS Smarterm II (80 column) board is sick. Is there anyone/anyplace to get it repaired? I realize I can buy a Videx compatible cheaper, but I like some of the features of the ALS board better. (ALS = Advanced Logic Systems) Thanks. Fodder for the BitchFest: The apple II can not/should not run UNIX! If you want Unix, buy a machine built for it! The apple II can not/should not MULTITASK! If you want multi-tasking, buy a machine built for it! When the apple IIGS runs Macintosh software (Duet, or other), no one will complain. Why complain if the Macintosh LC runs IIe or IIGS software? It will only increase the software user base (II and Mac). The II series is very expensive using a cost/performance analysis. If that bothers you intolerably, buy a MS-DOS machine they're CHEAP (maybe in more ways than one :-) ) I'll love/use my II+ and IIe machines as long as they do what I want to do. --Steve ------------------------------------------ | Steven E. Nelson | | Senior Project Analyst | | University of Iowa | | | | Internet: cmdsen@primeg.weeg.uiowa.edu | | Bitnet: cmdsenpg@uiamvs | | AOL: SteveNelsn (rarely) | ------------------------------------------
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (10/05/90)
In article <9010051457.AA18841@apple.com> CMDSEN@PRIMEG.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU writes: >I hope enough feelings and frustrations have been expressed already, so we can >get back to some computer business on this net :-) (No flames, please) > >Fodder for the BitchFest: The apple II can not/should not run UNIX! If you >want Unix, buy a machine built for it! No bitches here. I'm just telling it like it is. Unix is probably one of the simplest operating systems under the sun. Even GS/OS is more complex. Because of design, however, Unix is orders of magnitude more powerful. At least MY Apple IIgs SHOULD and WILL run Unix, if I'm as clever as I think I am. Unix will make the GS MORE USABLE, much more powerful, and with the GUI, still easy to use. It can be done. I'm doing it (slowly, classes are a bit much this semester). >The apple II can not/should not MULTITASK! If you want multi-tasking, buy a >machine built for it! The Apple II does multitask in a limited fashion. NDAs, and the wealth of interrupt handling added since the //e have made this feasible for a II. > --Steve ------------------------------------------ > | Steven E. Nelson | > | Senior Project Analyst | > | University of Iowa | > | | > | Internet: cmdsen@primeg.weeg.uiowa.edu | > | Bitnet: cmdsenpg@uiamvs | > | AOL: SteveNelsn (rarely) | > ------------------------------------------ > -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! | (B O'Cult) Apple II Users Unite! Storm the New Product Announcement and Demand Justice!
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (10/06/90)
I have had the need to use both A2FX and HFSlink recently. There are a
couple differences in the way they work, but both can READ but not write
an 800K (maybe also 400K?) HFS volume. A2FX provides you with 4
possible ways of storing the file which allow you to read just the
resource fork as a text file, just the data fork as an AppleDouble data
file, or both using AppleSingle or AppleDouble (not sure of the exact
details; I haven't used that). HFSLink always reads both forks, and
stores the data fork as the closest match to the name, and the resource
fork with a .R at the end.
Both programs use an interface very similar to 8-bit ShrinkIt - I think
they might have gotten some of the interface code from Andy. HFSlink
supports conversin of entire directory trees; I converted a whole disk
full of C sources at once (took 30-45 mins.)
Problems:
I did have a couple disks that A2FX couldn't read, but HFSLink could.
I'm not sure why, though.
HFSlink needs to be able to copy only the data or resource fork; I spent
quite a while deleting the resource forks from the C sources mentioned
above once the conversion was done. Also, neither program supports the
idea of converting forked Mac files to forked ProDOS files (a la GS/OS),
which may or may not be useful in the future. (Mac emulation that uses
GS/OS volumes??)
-----------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman
America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet/BITNET:jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu, jhutz@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) (10/06/90)
CMDSEN@PRIMEG.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU writes: > Two Mac/HFS disk readers in Beta form have been posted in recent months, >a2fx and hfslink. Can anyone give some comparison of the two For that matter, are there any plans in the works to enable these programs to WRITE Mac files? I would like some two-way capabilities! > Topic 3: I've ordered PlusWorks III to try Appleworks 3.0 on a IIPlus. Is > anyone interested in a review/report? YES! My User's Group has a donated ][+ and I would like to learn as much as possible about what I can do with it. > The apple II can not/should not MULTITASK! If you want multi-tasking, buy a > machine built for it! Sure, but neither does the Mac. Not really. And I would like to do some "false multitasking" like downloading in the background, printing in the background, switching having more than one application active at once... if it can be done, I'm all for it! > --Steve ------------------------------------------ > | Steven E. Nelson | > | Senior Project Analyst | > | University of Iowa | > | | > | Internet: cmdsen@primeg.weeg.uiowa.edu | > | Bitnet: cmdsenpg@uiamvs | > | AOL: SteveNelsn (rarely) | > ------------------------------------------ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U.| | Ya Gotta Love It. | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (10/06/90)
In article <0b3AHHq00VpH41JFRO@andrew.cmu.edu> jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) writes: >above once the conversion was done. Also, neither program supports the >idea of converting forked Mac files to forked ProDOS files (a la GS/OS), There is no such thing as a forked ProDOS file. ProDOS 8 does not support forked files; those are GS/OS-only animals. The Mac-to-II conversion programs would have to be made GS-specific to make forked files, and we don't want that to happen--it's better to make a program capable of running on the least amount of hardware necessary. (HFSLink runs in 64K, for example.) Besides, there ought to be some program for you GS folks that'll take an AppleSingle or AppleDouble file and turn it into a GS/OS forked file. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (10/06/90)
In article <Eb3B5X200YU5Q_Hc8q@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: [stuff deleted] >Sure, but neither does the Mac. Not really. And I would like to do >some "false multitasking" like downloading in the background Have you tried Transfusion from EGO systems? They publish GS+ which is, in my opinion, a rather nice magazine/disk devoted to the GS. Both EGOed and Transfusion( which is being rewritten in Orca/C) are NDA's. Transfusion does download in the background. While I'm at it, are there any ANSI Basic languages for the GS? What about Orca/C? Does it follow (strictly) the ANSI C standard? Philip McDunnough University of Toronto philip@utstat.toronto.edu [my opinions]
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (10/07/90)
When I said "forked ProDOS file," I meant a forked file on the ProDOS
File System, as supported by the ProDOS FST. Unfortunately, P8 doesn't
support forked files, but there's no reason you couldn't write the code
to do it. Or, write something for GS/OS. I would, but there are
already 2 conversion utilities that could be ported, and I don't know
enough about HFS.
-----------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman
America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet/BITNET:jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu, jhutz@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (10/07/90)
Regarding ORCA/C.
As far as I can tell after having used it for over a year, it is very
close to ANSI compliant, but not perfect. For instance, it does not
support the use of %p in format strings to print pointers. It expects a
Pascal-type string for %p, which is far more useful on the platform on
which it is running. It also allows \p as the first character of a
string literal, which means store it with a leading length byte, like
Pascal (but also with trailing null, not counted). This is because many
of the toolbox routines require and/or return Pascal strings.
I am currently in the process of porting a vi clone to the IIgs which
was already written to be compiled on an Atari ST, UNIX, and other
systems. I have had very little trouble; I'm only having a few problems
now with a memory allocation bug in the program somewhere.
The ORCA text-based shell is excellent; I have mine customized to look
much like UNIX. It allows the easy addition of new utilities and
commands. I do have problems with the desktop version; it's a great
environment but I don't have enough memory for it to run well under
system 5.0 or greater. Might be better under 4.0; I haven't tried.
Overall, it's a prety good compiler and probably the best available for
the IIgs.
-----------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman
America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet/BITNET:jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu, jhutz@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) (10/07/90)
In-Reply-To: message from CMDSEN@PRIMEG.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU > Another topic: 3.5" disks for Apple IIe. I've been very unhappy with my UDC > and Laser 3.5 drives. Has anyone used AMR drives and controller? Is it > reliable? Has anyone used AE drives and controller? Is it reliable? Has > anyone compared the two? Which would you recommend : Apple UniDisk 3.5, AMR > 3.5, or AE 3.5? I purchased a Laser 3.5 drive and UDC controller and was unhappy with it also. The speed of transfer was way down, and the drive seemed like a toy. Many disks copied to the Laser drive would not read properly in an Apple 3.5 at school and vice versa. I purchased a used Apple 3.5 drive (listed on this network) for around $150 and am using it on my 2e with the UDC card. Much better! > Fodder for the BitchFest: The apple II can not/should not run UNIX! If you > want Unix, buy a machine built for it! Whoa, wait a minute. I've got a program called aunix and it works on my 2e. It is by no means full featured, but it "runs" UNIX. And our Proline bbs runs a UNIX emulator, and it too is on a 2e! > The apple II can not/should not MULTITASK! If you want multi-tasking, buy a > machine built for it! The Apple ][gs can multi-switch, so to speak, having several applications in memory at the same time and switching between them. True multi-tasking may not be possible, but even on my 386 running Desqview, I rarely run several applications at the same time; only switch between several back and forth. Why do you say "should not MULTITASK"? If it were possible, I'd probably pay for the opportunity to have several applications running at the same time. ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Ungerman |Proline:mikeu@pro-magic Pro-Magic BBS: 407-366-0156 |uucp:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu 300/1200/2400/9600 Baud 24hrs |arpa:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu@nosc.mil Apple Tree of Central Florida, Inc |Internet:mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com Orlando, Florida|Voice:407-366-0060|Compuserve:71326,31 Prodigy: JSNP58A
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (10/07/90)
In article <4851@crash.cts.com> mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) writes: >Whoa, wait a minute. I've got a program called aunix and it works on my 2e. >It is by no means full featured, but it "runs" UNIX. And our Proline bbs runs >a UNIX emulator, and it too is on a 2e! I was just wondering, what exactly is this "aunix" you mention? Where can you get it? What features does it give you? Is it a shell for ProDOS or is it something completely different? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/07/90)
In article <1990Oct6.051920.4341@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes: >While I'm at it, are there any ANSI Basic languages for the GS? What >about Orca/C? Does it follow (strictly) the ANSI C standard? I haven't heard much demand for ANSI BASIC; on the other hand, ByteWorks now has an implementation of Apple Integer BASIC for the (compiled) ORCA environment; it's said to be much faster than AppleSoft (interpreted). There have been a couple of other commercial BASIC compilers released, one from Beagle Brothers, and one from Apple sold via APDA. Morgan Davis also has an MD-BASIC that you might be interested in. ORCA/C attempts to mostly follow the C standard, but it falls short in several areas; for example its preprocessing is not a full implementation, and it is missing the internationalization support. It also still (as of release 1.1) has quite a few bugs, so you have to use it with a suspicious mind. Make sure your code is strictly conforming, and if it malfunctions, examine the code that the compiler generated then devise workarounds for the bugs. For example, I recently discovered that unsigned_long-1 had code generated that evaluated instead unsigned_long+1, at least when used as an array subscript; casting the unsigned_long to int worked around this particular compiler bug (at least, for values that fit within an int).
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/07/90)
In article <2091@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> alfter@uns-helios.uucp (SCOTT ALFTER) writes: >There is no such thing as a forked ProDOS file. There certainly is; "ProDOS" in this context was denoting a filesystem type. You're right in noting that ProDOS-8 (the operating system) does not support this file type, but it sure can encounter it if it was placed into the filesystem by a GS/OS utility. IIGS users commonly encounter both GS/OS and ProDOS-8 modes of operation on the same shared ProDOS file systems.
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/08/90)
In article <4851@crash.cts.com> mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) writes: >Whoa, wait a minute. I've got a program called aunix and it works on my 2e. >It is by no means full featured, but it "runs" UNIX. And our Proline bbs runs >a UNIX emulator, and it too is on a 2e! I bet you're talking about some shell that uses commands that are the same as UNIX commands, correct? Does it allow bidirectional piping? Even if it does, it's not UNIX. Heck, even in MSDOS you can rename a lot of the standard command files, so it LOOKS like UNIX. It's still not UNIX. (Don't tell me about Xenix, I know about it) Just trying to straighten out the confusion between REAL UNIX (or the many real 'variants' of UNIX.. BSD, AT&T, etc) and some shell that LOOKS like UNIX. -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
JWANKERL@UTCVM.BITNET ("Josef W. Wankerl") (10/08/90)
On Sat, 6 Oct 90 05:19:20 GMT <info-apple-request@APPLE.COM> said: >In article <Eb3B5X200YU5Q_Hc8q@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. > Mereness) writes: > >[stuff deleted] > >>Sure, but neither does the Mac. Not really. And I would like to do >>some "false multitasking" like downloading in the background > >Have you tried Transfusion from EGO systems? They publish GS+ which >is, in my opinion, a rather nice magazine/disk devoted to the GS. >Both EGOed and Transfusion( which is being rewritten in Orca/C) are >NDA's. Transfusion does download in the background. > >While I'm at it, are there any ANSI Basic languages for the GS? What >about Orca/C? Does it follow (strictly) the ANSI C standard? Transfusion was written entirely in ORCA/C. Yes, ORCA/C is strictly an ANSI C compiler (with a bug here and there even with version 1.1!) EGOed was written in TML Pascal II and will be rewritten in C one day if Diz can ever get around to it. Transfusion uses the RunAction NDA event to download "in the background" if you can call it that. It stops your application long enough to receive/send a packet, then it lets your application go back to work for a while (very short while) then it tries to send/receive another packet. >Philip McDunnough >University of Toronto >philip@utstat.toronto.edu >[my opinions] -- ===> Josef W. Wankerl, college student | "I am a Viking" -Y. Malmsteen ProLine: jwankerl@pro-gsplus | BITNET: JWANKERL@UTCVM InterNet: jwankerl@pro-gsplus.cts.com | UUCP: ...crash!pro-gsplus!jwankerl ARPA/DDN: ...crash!pro-gsplus!jwankerl@nosc.mil | I'm employed by EGO, GS+!
jason@madnix.UUCP (Jason Blochowiak) (10/14/90)
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: [Some other stuff deleted] >For that matter, are there any plans in the works to enable these >programs to WRITE Mac files? I would like some two-way capabilities! Although it'd be kinda neat, why bother? Anyone who has a Mac has Apple File Exchange for it, and can therefore read ProDOS disks. So, the folks with Macs can read our disks, and (assuming a2fx and/or HFSLink get done) we can read theirs - hence, information can be transferred in both directions. Of course, unless I'm really missing something, AFE doesn't support ProDOS filesystem forked files. For the most part, though, that doesn't matter, as the resource fork formats are different enough to be useless without conversion. MPW's DuplicateIIgs command is the only thing I know about on the Mac that lets you copy resource forks from HFS to ProDOS, and it may be doing something to the fork in the process (I dunno - I just use it, I haven't disassembled it, yet ;). >|Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | >|jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| >|a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | -- Jason B. - jason@madnix.UUCP or astroatc!nicmad!madnix!jason@spool.cs.wisc.edu I'm now working at SoftDisk, Inc. Of course, what I say is what I say, and not what they say... I will be calling this account for awhile & dealing with mail here, but I won't be calling nearly as frequently as I used to.
bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) (10/17/90)
In article <1591@madnix.UUCP> jason@madnix.UUCP (Jason Blochowiak) writes: >jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: > [Some other stuff deleted] >>For that matter, are there any plans in the works to enable these >>programs to WRITE Mac files? I would like some two-way capabilities! > > Although it'd be kinda neat, why bother? Anyone who has a Mac has >Apple File Exchange for it, and can therefore read ProDOS disks. So, the >folks with Macs can read our disks Well, that depends on how you look at it. It's technically possible and most Apple // users would even consider it easy. Try explaining it to someone who has never done anything but point and click an a Mac and you start running into problems. I've known several who assumed the file was bad when they couldn't run it by clicking on it. With the GS point and click capacity there could also be a large number of GS owners who don't know about xfering and importing ascii files.