TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET (10/12/90)
First question: I'll be getting a HD soon, but before I sink almost $1000
into my IIGS, I want to know about my future prospects... In the slight
chance that I will eventually get out of the Apple II market, I will most
probably move to macintosh (heaven forbid). Anyway, seeing as how I'll get
a SCSI drive, I'll be able to use that on the mac, but what about the SCSI
cards? Will the Apple High Speed SCSI card and/or the RamFAST SCSI card
work on a mac? I'd really like the RamFAST SCSI, but if it won't work on
the mac, I'll stick with the Apple card.
Second question: I just discovered a few IIGSs in the computer lab...
unfortunately, they're the "Woz edition." (with Woz' signature, even!)
Therefore, very little of today's software runs on it. What I was wondering
was, is there any kind of upgrade available for this computer?
Thanks,
Tim
_ _ _
[_ Miami University, Oxford, OH: [_] Pro-TCC, Columbus, OH: _]
_] ts8rbotw@miamiu.bitnet [_] tschmidt@pro-tcc.cts.com [_
[_ tfschmidt@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu [_] UUCP: crash!pro-tcc!tschmidt _]
_] ts8rbotw@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu [_] Proline: tschmidt@pro-tcc [_toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (10/12/90)
TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: >cards? Will the Apple High Speed SCSI card and/or the RamFAST SCSI card >work on a mac? I'd really like the RamFAST SCSI, but if it won't work on >the mac, I'll stick with the Apple card. Neither card will work in a Mac, nor are they needed. Macs have SCSI built into them. If you get a high end mac, they will be as fast as the RamFast already. In fact, if the mac you buy has a properly written SCSI manager (none currently do) then you will be able to hook the Mac and the GS to the same drive and they can share it by accessing different partitions (SCSI doesn't know how to keep you from writing to a partition that somebody else is reading). Note that no current Mac can do this _safely_ but two DMA SCSI equipped Apple //'s can. Pisses me off, 'cause I have a third partition on my Q105 that is formatted for HFS, and to get at it I have to connect it to my roommate's Mac and drag things to the fileserver. >Second question: I just discovered a few IIGSs in the computer lab... >unfortunately, they're the "Woz edition." (with Woz' signature, even!) >Therefore, very little of today's software runs on it. What I was wondering >was, is there any kind of upgrade available for this computer? Of course! Two things might need to be done: Upgrade them to ROM 01 (if it doesn't say "Rom Version 01" at the bottom of the screen when you reboot them then it ain't ROM 01), and add memory. I have a ROM 01 GS (not woz edition however) with 2.25 megs in it and I never run out of memory. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/12/90)
In article <90284.212510TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET> TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: >First question: I'll be getting a HD soon, but before I sink almost $1000 >into my IIGS, I want to know about my future prospects... In the slight >chance that I will eventually get out of the Apple II market, I will most >probably move to macintosh (heaven forbid). Anyway, seeing as how I'll get >a SCSI drive, I'll be able to use that on the mac, but what about the SCSI >cards? Will the Apple High Speed SCSI card and/or the RamFAST SCSI card >work on a mac? I'd really like the RamFAST SCSI, but if it won't work on >the mac, I'll stick with the Apple card. No, the Mac (all varieties) has a SCSI port built in. Analogous to the disk drive port on the GS, but you hook up SCSI devices to it. Virtually all (if not all) Macs have had it.. I think maybe the 128K Mac and the Mac Plus didn't have it... not sure. >Second question: I just discovered a few IIGSs in the computer lab... >unfortunately, they're the "Woz edition." (with Woz' signature, even!) >Therefore, very little of today's software runs on it. What I was wondering >was, is there any kind of upgrade available for this computer? Yeah there's about 6 GSes in my college on campus (my college meaning one of the residential colleges that are a part of UCSC). They were originally bought by the education department I think... I guess they got them so people who wanted to be teachers would use what was in schools??? I don't really get it either... But even I, a total GS person, think it was kinda dumb for a University to buy GSes. Right now they're sitting in a computer lab with a bunch of Macs, and the GSes all sit with their power off all of the time. FORTUNATELY, 5/6 (or all but one of them) actually -HAVE- 3.5" drives hooked up to them. MIRACULOUS. They're all 256K machines though... Oh yeah, I saw a floppy in one of the drives, and checked it out. IT WAS A System Disk 1.1!! God, I'd puke if I had to use that. So I'm actually going to try to write up a 'proposal' and send it to someone on campus who has some kind of authority in these matters. I don't think it'll do diddley squat, but I'll mention getting one meg total memory for each minimum... And how they can all be networked with the Macs to Imagewriters/Laserprinters just as easily as the Macs.. And even putting them on a server would make it faster and disks less needed. And AppleWorks GS would be a great thing to put on these networks. Also, I'll say that I have lots of freeware/shareware software that could be used.. (AND give them a (few) copy(copies) of System Disk 5.0.) Oh yes, back to my main point. If they're ROM 01 Woz machines you're talking about, they -will- run "today's software". They just probably need more memory or possibly the free upgrade to ROM 01 status. I have an upgraded //e (a GS in a //e case) that's the equivalent to the Woz machines you described. Wow.. long post.. If anyone has any other ideas of constructive things I could say to the person I'm going to mail on campus so that it would be worth it spending at least a couple hundred (for RAM and maybe AppleTalk stuff), please mail me and tell me. By the way, I'm going to offer to do system upgrades and hooking up AppleTalk, etc., for free... Heck, I'd rather do a few hours work and see the GSes being USED than see then all turned off and being a big waste of -MY- fees! -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
rkh@mtune.ATT.COM (Robert Halloran) (10/12/90)
In article <90284.212510TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET> TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: >First question: I'll be getting a HD soon, but before I sink almost $1000 >into my IIGS, I want to know about my future prospects... In the slight >chance that I will eventually get out of the Apple II market, I will most >probably move to macintosh (heaven forbid). Anyway, seeing as how I'll get >a SCSI drive, I'll be able to use that on the mac, but what about the SCSI >cards? Will the Apple High Speed SCSI card and/or the RamFAST SCSI card >work on a mac? I'd really like the RamFAST SCSI, but if it won't work on >the mac, I'll stick with the Apple card. As the Mac has SCSI built-in, this is a non-issue. The drive will work with re-formatting, either of the A2 SCSI boards are useless in the Mac along with any other A2 boards you have. >Second question: I just discovered a few IIGSs in the computer lab... >unfortunately, they're the "Woz edition." (with Woz' signature, even!) >Therefore, very little of today's software runs on it. What I was wondering >was, is there any kind of upgrade available for this computer? As I recall, the Woz edition was simply the initial run of the initial ROM set (00?). You should be able to upgrade at least to ROM 01 for free. Going to ROM 03 basically means a motherboard swap at heavy $$$. I'd be perfectly happy to swap my vanilla case top for a 'Woz edition' lid if you think it's so unfortunate..... :-). Bob Halloran ========================================================================= Internet: rkh@mtune.dptg.att.com UUCP: att!mtune!rkh Disclaimer: If you think AT&T would have ME as a spokesman, you're crazed. Quote: "How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips move." - M-m-max Headroom "Read my lips - no new taxes..." - G. Bush, 1988 =========================================================================
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/12/90)
In article <90284.212510TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET> TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: >Will the Apple High Speed SCSI card and/or the RamFAST SCSI card >work on a mac? No, the Mac has its own SCSI interface. >Second question: I just discovered a few IIGSs in the computer lab... >unfortunately, they're the "Woz edition." (with Woz' signature, even!) >Therefore, very little of today's software runs on it. What I was wondering >was, is there any kind of upgrade available for this computer? If they are ROM version 00, there is a free upgrade to ROM version 01. The other worthwhile upgrade is to install a memory expansion card with 1MB or more on it. There is also a free VGC upgrade available; take the serial numbers to your Apple dealer to determine whether or not they need it. One of the Apple II magazines a year or two ago published an article that outlined the available free upgrades for Apple II equipment and software.
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (10/12/90)
Regarding the upgrade of the original Woz machines. The original Woz
machines had an old version of the ROMs (version 00), and a buggy video
chip. You can both of these upgrades FREE by taking the machines to
your local Apple dealer. Call them in advance; they may have to order
the necessary chips from Apple, which could take a while.
-----------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman
America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet/BITNET:jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu, jhutz@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu,
jh4o@cmuccvma
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (10/14/90)
>There is also a free VGC upgrade available; Is that the 'Video Graphics Controller'? What does that upgrade do and can I still get it? I took my machine in a year or two ago for the ROM 01 upgrade but I haven't heard anything about the VGC upgrade. Would that have been done at the same time as my ROM 01 upgrade? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | This is your brain... | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | This is your brain on drugs... | pro-line: | | This is your brain on whole wheat.| mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |____________________________________|_______________________________|
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/14/90)
In article <9010140033.AA07237@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: >Is that the 'Video Graphics Controller'? What does that upgrade do and can I >still get it? I took my machine in a year or two ago for the ROM 01 upgrade >but I haven't heard anything about the VGC upgrade. Would that have been >done at the same time as my ROM 01 upgrade? Yes, it's the VGC. Early IIGSes had a version that had some visible display anomalies, I think particularly in 640 composite mode. The way to tell whether or not an upgrade is advisable is to check your serial number, and if it's less than a certain value (which I don't happen to have at hand), your computer has the old VGC (unless it has already been upgraded). A competent dealer would have checked this when they installed your ROM 01 upgrade, but then many Apple dealers seem to be less than competent.
kgreen@pro-angmar.UUCP (Kevin Green) (10/15/90)
In-Reply-To: message from TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET Tim, All Macs come with the SCSI port built in to the hardware. Virtually any HD you buy for your //gs will work with a Mac (albeit reformatted to HFS format). The SCSI cards for the // series are no more compatible with a Mac than any other // card. Contact your local Apple dealer for details on a Woz edition upgrade to ROM 01 (you can't get a ROM 03 because of 'minor' changes to the //gs motherboard inherent to the ROM 03 machine)
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (10/15/90)
In article <9010140033.AA07237@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: > >>There is also a free VGC upgrade available; > >Is that the 'Video Graphics Controller'? What does that upgrade do and can I >still get it? I took my machine in a year or two ago for the ROM 01 upgrade >but I haven't heard anything about the VGC upgrade. Would that have been >done at the same time as my ROM 01 upgrade? Speaking of the VGC upgrade, my monitor has nasty moire-like interference patterns on the desktop background. I know of several other GS's that DON'T have this problem. I know of others that do. What gives? My VGC was supposedly replaced along with my upgrade to ROM 01, but I'm not so sure (you know dealers- whole wheat for brains, usually). I'd reeeeaaaly Like to fix this, it's quite annoying and somewhat embarassing when I'm showing off my machine's great graphics. -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! | (B O'Cult) Apple II Users Unite! Storm the New Product Announcement and Demand Justice!
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (10/15/90)
On Sun, 14 Oct 90 03:40:25 GMT Doug Gwyn said: >has already been upgraded). A competent dealer would have checked >this when they installed your ROM 01 upgrade, but then many Apple >dealers seem to be less than competent. Unfortunately, The dealer that did my upgrade was not very competent and is now out of business (fortunately) and another Apple dealer has replaced it (fortunately). I guess I'll have to take it in to see if I need it. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | This is your brain... | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | This is your brain on drugs... | pro-line: | | This is your brain on whole wheat.| mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |____________________________________|_______________________________|
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/16/90)
In article <1990Oct14.183035.29882@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) writes: > Speaking of the VGC upgrade, my monitor has nasty moire-like interference >patterns on the desktop background. I think the problem fixed by the VGC upgrade was color fringing. Moire-like effects are almost certainly due to aliasing between the raster and the luminescent color dots on the CRT surface. You can clean that up to some extent by proper alignment of the CRT circuits, but I doubt that you can ever completely eliminate it. (There are also very expensive color monitors that don't have such problems.)
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (10/16/90)
You can't go to ROM 03. The motherboard swap isn't available at any
cost. The only way to go from a ROM 01 GS to a ROM 03 GS is to buy a
new GSS and sell your old one.
-----------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman
America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet/BITNET:jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu, jhutz@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu,
jh4o@cmuccvma
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<jeffn@nuchat.UUCP (Jeff Noxon) (10/16/90)
In article <0b6a_W_00Vp3IlAVhm@andrew.cmu.edu> jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) writes: |You can't go to ROM 03. The motherboard swap isn't available at any |cost. The only way to go from a ROM 01 GS to a ROM 03 GS is to buy a |new GSS and sell your old one. Uhm! You most certainly can. It's just a tad expensive. It's not a motherboard swap. You actually have to BUY a ROM 3 motherboard. Then it's up to you or your dealer to put it in. There's really no reason to go ROM 3. Buy a larger ramcard or something. A ROM 1 board is around $380 I believe. I don't have the price of the ROM 3 board here but it's almost certainly more expensive. If you don't outright buy the new board, the dealer will only replace motherboards "like for like." Jeff -- Jeff Noxon | Stop complaining and do something about jeffn@nuchat.sccsi.com | it. Really! 713/721-6820 (CDT) Houston, TX |
kreme@isis.cs.du.edu (Max Headshop) (10/17/90)
In article <90284.212510TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET> TS8RBOTW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes: --]First question: I'll be getting a HD soon, but before I sink almost $1000 --]into my IIGS, I want to know about my future prospects... In the slight --]chance that I will eventually get out of the Apple II market, I will most --]probably move to macintosh (heaven forbid). Anyway, seeing as how I'll get --]a SCSI drive, I'll be able to use that on the mac, but what about the SCSI --]cards? Will the Apple High Speed SCSI card and/or the RamFAST SCSI card --]work on a mac? I'd really like the RamFAST SCSI, but if it won't work on --]the mac, I'll stick with the Apple card. None of the cards will work on a Mac, but that's OK, Macs don't need cards, they have a SCSI port built in as part of the computer. If you move from a gs to a mac you can keep the Drive, but the card goes with the GS as it would be useless to you. The RAMFast SCSI is about twice as fast as the DMA SCSI, but also costs twice as much. --]Second question: I just discovered a few IIGSs in the computer lab... --]unfortunately, they're the "Woz edition." (with Woz' signature, even!) --]Therefore, very little of today's software runs on it. What I was wondering --]was, is there any kind of upgrade available for this computer? The Upgrade is called RAM. All these machines need is a RAM card to go up to 1.125 Megs or so. That is, unless the machine doesn't boot up with a screen that says "ROM 01." Then you need a free upgrade available at any reputable Apple Dealer. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu |Growing up leads to growing old, and then to dying, and| |---------------------|dying to me don't sound like all that much fun. | | <Insert cute quote of your choice here!> |
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (10/17/90)
In article <29379@nuchat.UUCP> jeffn@nuchat.UUCP (Jeff Noxon) writes: >A ROM 1 board is around $380 I believe. I don't have the price of the ROM Hmm...for that price, you have to wonder if it would be economically feasible to build your own IIGS, in much the same way as the MeSsy-DOS folks can get a motherboard, case, power supply, etc. It might even be possible to stick a GS motherboard in an IBM-type case--you'd even get a bigger power supply (XT-class supplies are rated for 150 watts, I think, while Apple II supplies are only good up to 60-80 watts) and you could mount disk drives internally. What's more, you could stick a PC Transporter in it and nobody would ever know you really have a better computer (than a MeSsy-DOS thing) under the hood. :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang) (10/25/90)
In article <2164@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> alfter@uns-helios.uucp (SCOTT ALFTER) writes: >In article <29379@nuchat.UUCP> jeffn@nuchat.UUCP (Jeff Noxon) writes: >>A ROM 1 board is around $380 I believe. I don't have the price of the ROM > >Hmm...for that price, you have to wonder if it would be economically feasible >to build your own IIGS, in much the same way as the MeSsy-DOS folks can get >a motherboard, case, power supply, etc. It might even be possible to stick a >GS motherboard in an IBM-type case--you'd even get a bigger power supply >(XT-class supplies are rated for 150 watts, I think, while Apple II supplies >are only good up to 60-80 watts) and you could mount disk drives internally. I've tried this. I have a slim line xt case, pretty nice, not as big as the other IBM cases, and a 200 watt power supply. I took a piece of sheet metal, and cut holes for the serial ports, ADB bus, and the rest of the stuff on the back of the gs, and riveted it to the back of my case. That part worked fine, but the power supply didn't. I measured the voltage of the stock gs, and matched up wires from the other power supply, but when I connected it, there wasn't enough power. I'm guesing it didn't work because of a lack of current... Does anyone know how much currrent it takes to power a gs motherboard? I thought the idea of putting everything in one box, except the monitor, would be cool, much more portable than the stock gs. Of course, we'd lose the cool styling of the gs... Steve Chiang Steve Chiang Apple //gs user.. one of a dying breed qp qp DreamWorld Software You haven't seen anything yet. db db
THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET ("Throop,Henry B") (10/26/90)
[stuff about buying gs motherboard and putting in IBM case] Good luck trying to get a motherboard from Apple. They won't sell you one; otherwise everyone would just buy a $380 motherboard and a $50 power supply instead of a $1129 (or whatever it is now) CPU. Apple only gives out motherboards on an exchange basis; the $380 also means that you much give your old board back to your dealer, who ships it back to Cupertino. Some places do have used gs motherboards for $200-300; try Shreve Systems or Pre-Owned Electronics. -- Henry Throop THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET throoph@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (10/26/90)
On Thu, 25 Oct 90 13:48:55 cst Throop,Henry B said: >Some places do have used gs motherboards for $200-300; try Shreve Systems or >Pre-Owned Electronics. Do you know how we can get in contact with these companies? >-- >Henry Throop >THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET >throoph@jacobs.cs.orst.edu ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | This is your brain... | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | This is your brain on drugs... | pro-line: | | This is your brain on whole wheat.| mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |____________________________________|_______________________________|