bsherman@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU (Bob Sherman) (10/15/90)
From bsherman Sun Oct 14 18:59:19 1990
From: Bob Sherman <bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu>
Subject: A Letter From JJJ
Return-Receipt-To: bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
Reply-To: bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman)
This message was sent to me via e-mail by Jay Wilbur, Editor in Chief at
Softdisk Publishing Company, publishers of Softdisk and Softdisk GS magazines.
Since he does not have net access at present, he asked that I post it on
comp.sys.apple2 for him.
Bob Sherman
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jay [76646,2631]
Subj: go for it
Let'er rip Bob! :)
------------------
After a few phone calls to various RELIABLE sources I've come up with
some BAD news for the Apple II world. Of course these are all
rumors. I HOPE!
-=-
Towards the end of the summer Ralph Russo's group at Apple Inc. was
reorganized to promote synergy between the II and the Mac. Most
everything they said at KC fest will not come true. I do believe
Jane and Ralph believed what they said when they spoke to us. I do
believe they had our best interests in mind and wanted to provide us,
their customers, with what we wanted.
Unfortunately there are those with higher positions at Apple Inc. who
feel the need to dictate to the consuming public what it wants. They
must know what's best for me, right?
Here's my information on what the Apple II marketing group was told
when the reorg took place.
No Apple II ads
No New CPU's
Work to create synergy between the II and the Mac
To paraphrase one respectable source; The Apple II marketing group at
Apple Inc. is now in the business of turning Apple II users into Mac
uses.
-=Ready for more good news?=-
-Apple Inc. pulled its reserved ad space from InCider. It should be
noted that this happened without Jane's knowledge.
-There is no mention of the II in the Apple's 1990 Holiday Promotion
Resellers Reference Guide. Rebates and ad copy on tons'o'Mac stuff,
but no mention of the II.
-Apple will do direct mailing to 800,000 new and potential customers
in Nov. to promote the new Macs and the holiday promotions. NO
MENTION OF THE II!
-Several companies have software to be announced with the new Macs
that will allow them (and the rest of the Mac line I imagine) to
read, convert and write to ProDOS disks directly. In other words,
new Mac spreadsheet XYZ will be able read AppleWorks SS files,
convert it for its use, and write an AW SS back to a ProDOS disk
without the need for Apple File Exchange.
-AppleFest/West will be more of a regional show. This explains why
they only expect 3,000 - 5,000 people to attend. Those numbers are
right off the official press
release. Will Apple Inc. take that show on the road? Who knows.
-=-
I tried to call Jane Lee to talk to her about these items, but she
never returned my call.
-=-
Those of you who know me, know I don't publicly pass rumors around.
In fact this is the first time I've even posted anything like this on
this BB. I would like to be proven wrong as soon as possible by
someone at Apple. My income is a result of Apple II users buying my
product. The prospect of Apple Inc. working to make my income
dwindle by not selling new Apple II users is not an easy one to live
with.
Yes I know Apple Inc. is working to provide hardware additions and
better system level software for existing users. I salute those
involved. My question is: What would be wrong with providing a
better CPU and actually making a minuscule attempt to sell it?
What ever happened to the computer for the rest of us?
-----------------------------------------------------------
This was written on my own free time and reflect my personal
feelings. So....the opinions expressed in this post do not reflect
those of my employer or my fellow employees, but I bet they do!
--new message--
Last night my roommate gave me a message that John Santoro from
Apple, Inc. returned my call (only 3 days late, which isn't bad for Apple
Inc.). It was after normal working hours so I missed the call.
I tried to call him from the house, but I was too late. I plan on
calling him or Jane on Monday so I can get some of the items I posted earlier
straight from Apple Inc. I'll post what happened soon after I get off the
phone.
--
bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL:BSHERMAN cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) (10/15/90)
In article <9010150603.AA04956@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami. edu (Bob Sherman) writes: > > From bsherman Sun Oct 14 18:59:19 1990 > From: Bob Sherman <bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> > Subject: A Letter From JJJ > Return-Receipt-To: bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu > Reply-To: bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) > > This message was sent to me via e-mail by Jay Wilbur, Editor in Chief at > Softdisk Publishing Company, publishers of Softdisk and Softdisk GS magazines. > > Since he does not have net access at present, he asked that I post it on > comp.sys.apple2 for him. > Bob Sherman > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From: Jay [76646,2631] > Subj: go for it > > Let'er rip Bob! :) > ------------------ > > After a few phone calls to various RELIABLE sources I've come up with > some BAD news for the Apple II world. Of course these are all > rumors. I HOPE! > > Yes I know Apple Inc. is working to provide hardware additions and > better system level software for existing users. I salute those > involved. My question is: What would be wrong with providing a > better CPU and actually making a minuscule attempt to sell it? > > What ever happened to the computer for the rest of us? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > This was written on my own free time and reflect my personal > feelings. So....the opinions expressed in this post do not reflect > those of my employer or my fellow employees, but I bet they do! > > > --new message-- > > >-- > bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL:BSHERMAN I'm too tired to flame at Apple so I guess I wont. Besides, people in II DTS don't deserve it and neither does Russo's group. It's just I feel really like Apple has deserted me. Like what IBM did with the PC line (except they came out with something at least relatively similar). Apple wants all of us Apple II users to 'upgrade' to a Macintosh. I'll admit, the Macs coming out have excellent prices but by abandoning their Apple II users, they aren't going to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside when they send their propaganda. Someone told me that a Mac is less expensive to build than a GS but those prices on the mac(classic,lc,si) are a little low for me to believe that Apple couldn't lower the price of the GS to make it attractive to the low end. Where does this leave me? Well, it leaves me with a computer system that no one will buy, and no one will make software for. I really like my GS but without the support of the manufacturer, a computer's life is cut very short. I'm not going to sell my computer. I'm still going to learn to program and maybe I can join the ranks of Andy Nicholas, Andy Mcfadden, Dave Lyons, Jason Harper and the other people who still support and write software for us (sorry if I didn't name you :) ). I've invested about $3400 in my GS and now Apple wants me to forget all of it and get a Mac. Well, I don't think so. Can anyone make suggestions on development software? I think I'm going to get Orca/C, Orca Pascal and Orca assembler. Maybe after I learn a lot, I can join FTA. Collin Douglas cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/16/90)
In article <1990Oct15.071543.3222@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) writes: >Can anyone make suggestions on development software? I think I'm going >to get Orca/C, Orca Pascal and Orca assembler. I wouldn't bother with Orca/Pascal, since Pascal and C have similar capabilities and C is more generally useful. Quite a few Apple II software developers seem to prefer Merlin-8/16+ (Roger Wagner Publishing) for their assembly-language development. Although I own a copy, I haven't had the time to learn to use it so I can't really evaluate how it compares to ORCA/M. The vast majority of my software is written in C and is in fact not Apple IIGS-specific.
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) (10/16/90)
Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.apple2: 15-Oct-90 A Letter From JJJ Bob Sherman@MTHVAX.CS.MI (4495) > ... [a whole lot of bad things that we already expected.] People, just keep truckin'. Don't feel you have to migrate to another machine, don't give up on the //, just keep developing like we always have. We know we have the more fun machine, we have better tools, color, and all the neat and stupid things the mac does like networking, funny beep noises, and nude desktop backgrounds ;-) Orca C 1.1 has arrived. So have tons of nice shareware. Great games, Appleworks GS, and other good stuff. If you think the machine is slow, buy a Transwarp or a Zip when it comes out. Try the RAMFast SCSI, and buy lots of DMA memory. A loaded //gs can do some incredible things while still being the same open box we are used to. Dammit, I love my Apple //. As long as there are people who don't agree with the Apple Execs who think they should dictate how people should use computers, the Apple // will do just fine. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U.| | Ya Gotta Love It. | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) (10/16/90)
Merlin is a faster assembler. Orca/M however is quite good and i've done a few large things with it. The assembler speed is decent, the linker (ZapLink) is very good. Orca/M v2.0 promises to be real nice. It is currently in beta test (so you may wanna hold off purchasing Orca/M at the moment). -- 6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu/ucsbuxa.bitnet america online: AFA PARIK genie:P.RAO
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (10/16/90)
On Mon, 15 Oct 90 07:15:43 GMT Collin Broad Douglas said: > >Can anyone make suggestions on development software? I think I'm going >to get Orca/C, Orca Pascal and Orca assembler. Maybe after I learn a lot, >I can join FTA. I highly recommend the ORCA/M Assembler. In my opinion, Assembly Language (or C) is the best way to go... but I can't recommend any good C compilers for the GS, because I've never used one. > > Collin Douglas > > cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | This is your brain... | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | This is your brain on drugs... | pro-line: | | This is your brain on whole wheat.| mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |____________________________________|_______________________________|
mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) (10/16/90)
In-Reply-To: message from bsherman@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU I think the presentation at Apple's Product announcement says it all: The Apple ][ series is a Model-T; the Mac is the wave of the future, "The power to be your best." There is a vast base of installed users of ][e/c/gs out here, so the LC's emulator card will allow those with a vested interest in Apple ][ software to continue to use their programs while "transitioning" to "be their best." ______________________________________________________________________________ Mike Ungerman |Proline:mikeu@pro-magic Pro-Magic BBS: 407-366-0156 |uucp:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu 300/1200/2400/9600 Baud 24hrs |arpa:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu@nosc.mil Apple Tree of Central Florida, Inc |Internet:mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com Orlando, Florida|Voice:407-366-0060|Compuserve:71326,31 Prodigy: JSNP58A
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (10/17/90)
In article <5069@crash.cts.com> mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from bsherman@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU > >I think the presentation at Apple's Product announcement says it all: The >Apple ][ series is a Model-T; the Mac is the wave of the future, "The power to >be your best." > >There is a vast base of installed users of ][e/c/gs out here, so the LC's >emulator card will allow those with a vested interest in Apple ][ software to >continue to use their programs while "transitioning" to "be their best." Oh please. What //e owner is going to spend $3000 on an LC, another $200 on the emulator, when he can go out and buy a complete Amiga 3000 system or a hell of a powerful '386 for the same price or less? (both with expansion slots, which the LC doesn't have) And STILL be able to run Apple // programs because he has his //e also.. What school districts are going to buy //e's packaged as Macs when they can get 3 //e packaged as Lasers for the Same price? Welcome, world, to Apple's Third Great Marketing Blunder. ANYTHING which increases productivity helps you to be your best, it doesn't have to have a multi-colored Apple on it. And my next productivity booster certainly won't (but I'll keep my GS as the epitome of what Apple once was). >______________________________________________________________________________ >Mike Ungerman |Proline:mikeu@pro-magic >Pro-Magic BBS: 407-366-0156 |uucp:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu >300/1200/2400/9600 Baud 24hrs |arpa:crash!pnet01!pro-magic!mikeu@nosc.mil >Apple Tree of Central Florida, Inc |Internet:mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! | (B O'Cult) Apple II Users Unite! Storm the New Product Announcement and Demand Justice!
gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) (10/19/90)
mikeu@pro-magic.cts.com (Mike Ungerman) writes: >In-Reply-To: message from bsherman@MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU >I think the presentation at Apple's Product announcement says it all: The >Apple ][ series is a Model-T; the Mac is the wave of the future, "The power to >be your best." >There is a vast base of installed users of ][e/c/gs out here, so the LC's >emulator card will allow those with a vested interest in Apple ][ software to >continue to use their programs while "transitioning" to "be their best." >______________________________________________________________________________ There is just one thing wrong with this so-called ][e card! It will be selling for approximately 1500$!!! I can get at least 2 ][e's for the same price! This is unbelievable. My brother has an Atari St, he can get a Mac emulator and an Ibm Emulator, and the total cost of both together (400$ canadian).... -- Michael Gammal Concordia University gammal@Altitude.CAM.ORG
gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) (10/19/90)
Please disregard the previous msg. referring to the apple ][e emulator, I found that in accurate pricing information was given to me. In fact the 1500$ price was ment to refer to The Mac Classic with the ][e card. -- Michael Gammal Concordia University gammal@Altitude.CAM.ORG
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/19/90)
In article <1990Oct18.194550.12687@CAM.ORG> gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) writes: >There is just one thing wrong with this so-called ][e card! >It will be selling for approximately 1500$!!! I don't know if you're including the price of the computer in it or what but it's definitely not $1500... The card will go for $199 from what's been rumored.. .The computer is like $3000 I think! (Certainly more than $1500) -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (10/19/90)
In article <1990Oct18.194550.12687@CAM.ORG> gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) writes: >It [IIe card for Mac LC] will be selling for approximately 1500$!!! $1500? From what I've read, the price is (make that "will be;" the card isn't available yet) closer to $200. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
rich@pro-exchange.cts.com (Rich Sims) (10/19/90)
In-Reply-To: message from jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu > Oh please. What //e owner is going to spend $3000 on an LC, another $200 > on the emulator, when he can go out and buy a complete Amiga 3000 system > or a hell of a powerful '386 for the same price or less? Any //e owner that wants one and has the money. Apple is betting their strategy is right... the complaints are coming from folks who think they're wrong. Sooner or later, we'll all know who was right. Can we now drop this pointless idiocy? Please!! Let's get back to discussing the computers, not the company or "what you can get for the same price"!
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/19/90)
In article <1990Oct18.195519.12825@CAM.ORG> gammal@CAM.ORG (Michael Gammal) writes: >Please disregard the previous msg. referring to the apple ][e emulator, >I found that in accurate pricing information was given to me. >In fact the 1500$ price was ment to refer to The Mac Classic with the >][e card. But according to all of the recent posts (and I believe they are fact rather than rumor), the //e card only works in the LC.. I may be wrong.. but it only works in one of the three 'new' ones and that it doesn't work in the Classic. -- / Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
avery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) (10/26/90)
comp.sys.apple2/6612, MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET: >I highly recommend the ORCA/M Assembler. In my opinion, Assembly Language >(or C) is the best way to go... but I can't recommend any good C compilers >for the GS, because I've never used one. ORCA/C is pretty good, especially for learning C, as Mike has put together a pretty nice correspondance course. I hear it still has a few, and I have found the file commands a little erratic once in a while, but overall it's looking pretty good. And unlike SOME COMPANIES which have been EXHAUSTIVELY mentioned of late, the CEO of Byteworks makes himself VERY accessible to calls from users. You see, he happens to also be the chief of technical support. This is the kind of service you get when a REAL engineer runs a technical corporation! It is the kind of service that would have stayed in Apple if they had KEPT engineers running it, or had at least a few in the marketing division. The moment these ignorant pathetic micro-econ-theorist pencil pushing glaze-eyed all dollars and no sense screwballs tell us WHAT to design, they take the whole fat soprano and stuff her down a two-foot wide tube! With a goddamn plunger! Of course, that is almost literally what was done to Debi Coleman as it is. The youngest CEO in history and they nail her for her looks. Oh well, the "Appearance Is Everything" attitude has finally invaded Apple, Inc. Coke and Pepsi. Republicans and Democrats. Apple and IBM. Yes, YOU have a choice in THESE Yoooonyted States of AmeriKKKa. The Ice Blue Menace, and the Rainbow Menace. It's almost enough to make me turn in my keyboard for good. Almost, but not quite. F.F.O. - Flame Fuckin' Off! -- Avery Ray Colter {apple|claris}!netcom!avery {decwrl|mips|sgi}!btr!elfcat (415) 839-4567 "Fat and steel: two mortal enemies locked in deadly combat." - "The Bending of the Bars", A. R. Colter