NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) (11/05/90)
I was wondering....the two most popular cpu's today are the
Intel 386 series and the Motorola 68xxx series. Most machines are built
around one of these standards to insure upward compatability. The origional
competitor (way back in the seventies) of the Intel 8080 and Z80's was the
65xxx series. We went from the 6502 to the 65C02 with pitstops for the
6510 and 65802. The one in the GS is the 65816, is Western Design Center going
to come out with an upgrade? The 68xxx series seems to come out like popcorn.
I wonder if economic pressure will prevent a new 65816.
How about those rumors of a Mac emulation card from Cir-Tech? Anything
to em? I read about it in Nibble AND A+ so I took it seriously (well sorta...)
Finally, In reading my Orca/M assembler manual it states that the
Orca assembler is powerful enough to develop a cross assembler using macros and
that got me thinking....is there anything technically impossible about developin
g a cross-interpreter? i.e. You get a program for another computer (say Mac),
and load it into your GS. The GS reads the forign disk (having been taught how)
and using a comparative list of machine language commands proceeds to write a
GS specific program by changing the machine level commands from mac to gs, if
the gs is lacking a command then it will be instructed to insert a small
routine to patch the discrepency in command tables. Then it puts this copy on
another disk and you can now use it on the GS. Legally there should be no
problems, once you buy a program you can alter it any way you like as long as
it is for personal use only. Is this science fiction or can it be done?
Oh, (I know I said finally above.....), is there any GS programs that
allow one to manipulate the actual wave of a sound file? Can SynthLab do that?
If not I guess I'll have to whip one up for all you shareware users......
- Joe Nowakowski
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without Apple life beyond IBM itself would be impossible....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (11/05/90)
In article <0C89ED2990BF80A479@snybufva.bitnet> NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) writes: >to come out with an upgrade? The 68xxx series seems to come out like popcorn. >I wonder if economic pressure will prevent a new 65816. Indeed. With the whole world having screaming orgasms over the MacClassic (totally beyond me how gullible people are- a machine which was "dropped" from the product line, given a catchy, marketable name, a new case, and is now selling at incredible rates) and MS-DOS firmly entrenched, there's not much market share for the '816 (at least in PC applications- the '02 and '816 are extensively used in dedicated applications). > How about those rumors of a Mac emulation card from Cir-Tech? Anything >to em? I read about it in Nibble AND A+ so I took it seriously (well sorta...) A Mac card would be cake (I know, I keep saying it's easy to build computer clones), except of course for the ROM issues. Suffice it to say that it is possible to emulate the Mac toolbox thru the GS's toolbox. Anyway, I hope they do make it. That way there will be a bigger market for my video card :-) > Finally, In reading my Orca/M assembler manual it states that the >Orca assembler is powerful enough to develop a cross assembler using macros and >that got me thinking....is there anything technically impossible about developin > g a cross-interpreter? i.e. You get a program for another computer (say Mac), >and load it into your GS. The GS reads the forign disk (having been taught how) >and using a comparative list of machine language commands proceeds to write a >GS specific program by changing the machine level commands from mac to gs, if >the gs is lacking a command then it will be instructed to insert a small >routine to patch the discrepency in command tables. Then it puts this copy on >another disk and you can now use it on the GS. Legally there should be no >problems, once you buy a program you can alter it any way you like as long as >it is for personal use only. Is this science fiction or can it be done? Now, this is an interesting idea. Instead of interpreting the machine code, simply COMPILE it. Other processor's machine code could be viewed as a "high level" language that could be compiled onto other machines. There are several difficulties I see with this, however. 1) You would have to have the source code for the program in question (otherwise you wouldn't know what was code and what was data) 2) Operating system calls would either have to be vectored, or the OS from the offending machine be cross-interpreted also. It seems like a very possible task. I'd recommend anyone actually trying this to start with the 80x86 series, since it's architecture is more in line with the 65816's (banked memory, limited registers, etc.), and there are more people who'd want MS-DOS programs than Mac programs. Also, some optimizations could be performed after the '816 code was generated to help speed things up. > Oh, (I know I said finally above.....), is there any GS programs that >allow one to manipulate the actual wave of a sound file? Can SynthLab do that? >If not I guess I'll have to whip one up for all you shareware users...... > - Joe Nowakowski I wrote a program like that for the Mac in MSBasic. >Without Apple life beyond IBM itself would be impossible.... Well, not entirely true, but something to think about nonetheless. -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! Apple II Forever! | (B O'Cult) Comp.Sys.Apple2- Home of the Unofficial Apple II Developer Support Team (DST)
kgreen@pro-angmar.UUCP (Kevin Green) (11/06/90)
In-Reply-To: message from NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET I don't know if there is a sound-wave manipulation program out there (I assume you mean changing frequency & amplitude,etc). If you write it, I'll pay my shareware fee.
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov4.214233.4187@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) writes: [stuff about getting ORCA/M to cross-assemble by using a set of macros deleted] >It seems like a very possible task. I'd recommend anyone actually trying this >to start with the 80x86 series, since it's architecture is more in line >with the 65816's (banked memory, limited registers, etc.), and there >are more people who'd want MS-DOS programs than Mac programs. Funny that you should make this recommendation...it reminded me of a feature of the MicroSPARC Assembler, which is what I use for ML work on my IIe. It came with a macro library to cross-assemble for the 8080. It also has a Sweet-16 cross-assembler macro set. Now here's a question: do you think a macro set could be made for an 8-bit assembler to cross-assemble 65816 code? It's something to think about. :-) (Not that I'd have any immediate use for it, though.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
ART100@psuvm.psu.edu (Andy Tefft) (11/07/90)
In article <2247@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU>, alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) says: > >Now here's a question: do you think a macro set could be made for an >8-bit assembler to cross-assemble 65816 code? It's something to think >about. :-) (Not that I'd have any immediate use for it, though.) Sure. When I was out looking to buy my 65802 Brian Willoughby at microsoft told me he'd made up a set of macros for the 65802 in his souped-up //+. (brianw@microsoft.com i believe) I have started writing similar macros but the small problem is just that without a lot of if-then stuff (some of which may not even be possible), you'd need a different macro name for each addressing mode (ick). Also the code wouldn't be real readable: clc >>> lda point >>> adc 4 bne blah etc.
jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (11/08/90)
Definitely. 65816 code is simply an extension of the 6502 instruction
set; you just have to write macros to deal witht he new addressing modes
and instructions. It is possible, but look forward to writing some
complicated macro code to parse addressing modes. I know the MicroSPARC
assembler can handle it; it will just take some work.
--------------------
Jeffrey Hutzelman America Online: JeffreyH11
Internet: jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: JHUTZ@DRYCAS
>> Apple // Forever!!! <<zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Sameer Parekh) (11/08/90)
Actually I think that if you alter something even though you don't give it out
that is breaking copyright laws.
--
zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) (11/08/90)
> I don't know if there is a sound manipulation program out there...
I believe that there is a shareware program that edits sounds somewhere on
America Online.. I forgot who it's made by, however - I will look and post
again if I find anything...NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) (11/10/90)
Sorry, according to the reworked copyright laws of 82 (?) you
can do ANYTHING you want to a program you have bought as long as it is
for personal use, saying that I can't is like saying I can't write in
a book I've bought or record an LP onto cassette to save the vinyl (I know
, whats an LP?).
- Joe Nowakowski