bird@cbnewsd.att.com (j.l.walters) (11/05/90)
There have been several mentions of system disk 5.0.3 and yet no firm details. Platinum Paint from Beagle ad says 5.0.3 & Beagle is shipping This leads to my following questions: 1. What are the new features for 5.0.3? 2. Will I need an upgrade to ProSel? ----- If Matt (or any other Apple employee) ever resumes answering questions on the net I would appreciate it if EVERYONE use him/her as a resource, not as a punching bag to vent their frustrations about Apple. Beating up on a person that is using their own time to answer our questions is unsportsmanlike, at best. ----- Seeing David Lyons going to work on GS/OS and recently Andy Nichols going to work on the Finder has to be two of the best pieces of news I've seen about the future of the Apple ][. -- Joe Walters att!ihlpf!bird IH 2A-227 (708) 979-9527
MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (11/05/90)
On Sun, 4 Nov 90 20:45:38 GMT j.l.walters said: >If Matt (or any other Apple employee) ever resumes >answering questions on the net I would appreciate it if EVERYONE >use him/her as a resource, not as a punching bag to vent their >frustrations about Apple. Beating up on a person that is >using their own time to answer our questions is unsportsmanlike, >at best. I think everyone agrees with this, but I havn't seen anyone using either Matt or Dave as punching bags. Most people, if not all, appreciate what they are doing. Most people that are/were pointing out the lack of support were not blaming DTS, but Apple management. > Joe Walters att!ihlpf!bird > IH 2A-227 (708) 979-9527 ________________________________________________________________ | | | | HEY! They're licking | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | FROGS in Colorado!!!! | pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |_______________________|________________________________________|
prophet@oxy.edu (Dale Bruce LaFountain) (11/08/90)
There are not very many new features in System 5.03, but here are the
things that have changed:
o The Disk button is now the Volumes button, and when pressed will
display all of the online volumes in the dialog. The previously
used Disk button just polled you to the next available drive,
so finding a specific volume (if you have lots of partitions)
was somewhat tedious. Note: the bug in the dialog that shows
one of your volumes (the 3rd partition on my HD, for me) in
all uppercase still exists, but you must use Tab to change
volumes. This new feature avoids that bug, somewhat indirectly.
o The current path is now displayed above the scroll window in
dialog boxes. By clicking on this line, you effectively 'Close'
one level of subdirectories. If you are currently in the root
of the volume, clicking on the path line will give you a list
of online volumes.
o New tools: all tools have been updated except for: 14, 22, 24, 25,
and 28 (don't quote me on this, it's from memory). The desktop
environment seems to be a little bit faster, but it's probably
just my optimistic distorted perspective. :)
o New SCSI Drivers: An updated SCSI.HD and Manager drivers seem
to have solved my earlier posted problem about writing to 3
consecutive 128k blocks. Other than that, I can't tell the
difference from the old one, other than it has a different date.
o Most importantly: NEW IMAGEWRITER DRIVER!!! This is version 4.0
of the IW driver, and it is several times faster than the one
released with System 5.02. The page setup and print dialogs now
have popup menus (like in the Control panel NDA) instead of
radio buttons. It has four print qualities: Text only, draft,
standard, and Best. I was very impressed.
o Various other changes to System files include, but are not limited
to: Expressload, most of the system.setup files, Basic.System,
P8 (v1.9), and a few others that elude me at the moment.
o System Tools: include many AppleTalk utilities/drivers/accessories.
I'm not familiar with AppleShare (yet :)) so I won't go into
what was included.
All this is available to YOU for the low, low price of.... FREE! All
you have to do is find a dealer with a copy, and you're all set. If
you are really desparate to get this, I have been told that both
disks are available on Genie and (?) America Online.
As for Prosel-16, v8.54 worked fine with the new system software. Just
remember to rename Start as something else before you install the new
finder, or you will lose your Prosel startup. I speak from experience
on that one, guys. :)
As has been mentioned before, Prosel is now at v8.55, which has included
virus protection (Blackout and Load Runner were specifically mentioned)
and a few more bug fixes (of course).
If anyone has any comments or additions to my above statement, please
feel free. I think I have covered all the major additions, but I may
have left something out.
I hope this helps.
Dale LaFountain
prophet@oxy.eduunknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (11/08/90)
First off: Sorry for quoting most of the file, but I felt it necessary.
In article <123529@tiger.oxy.edu> prophet@oxy.edu (Dale Bruce LaFountain) writes:
`There are not very many new features in System 5.03, but here are the
`things that have changed:
` o The Disk button is now the Volumes button, and when pressed will
` display all of the online volumes in the dialog. The previously
` used Disk button just polled you to the next available drive,
` so finding a specific volume (if you have lots of partitions)
` was somewhat tedious. Note: the bug in the dialog that shows
` one of your volumes (the 3rd partition on my HD, for me) in
` all uppercase still exists, but you must use Tab to change
` volumes. This new feature avoids that bug, somewhat indirectly.
WHY can't they just do it the way the Mac does? Unless I'm remembering
wrong, the Mac just uses the name over the scroll window as the "volumes"
list (always or only when you're at the root of a volume?? I forget)..
` o The current path is now displayed above the scroll window in
` dialog boxes. By clicking on this line, you effectively 'Close'
` one level of subdirectories. If you are currently in the root
` of the volume, clicking on the path line will give you a list
` of online volumes.
This has been there for a LONG time. I just booted up GS/OS and
ran SHRConvert to check.. clicking on the name DOES close the subdirectory.
(I ran SHRConvert to make sure it was a fairly old program. I believe
the "Standard File Dialog" may be a built-in function so I will say I was
using 5.02, but this definitely shows it's not new in 5.03).
` o New tools: all tools have been updated except for: 14, 22, 24, 25,
` and 28 (don't quote me on this, it's from memory). The desktop
` environment seems to be a little bit faster, but it's probably
` just my optimistic distorted perspective. :)
Hopefully it's faster!!
` o New SCSI Drivers: An updated SCSI.HD and Manager drivers seem
` to have solved my earlier posted problem about writing to 3
` consecutive 128k blocks. Other than that, I can't tell the
` difference from the old one, other than it has a different date.
The SCSI driver isn't any faster?
` o Various other changes to System files include, but are not limited
` to: Expressload, most of the system.setup files, Basic.System,
` P8 (v1.9), and a few others that elude me at the moment.
If other things are Expressloaded, doesn't that mean it'll boot
faster?? or is it only the ones that aren't needed upon boot (like BASIC.
SYSTEM, P8, etc?..
I sure hope they'll release a program to make EXPRESSLOAD files
yourself.. Am I correct in believing you can convert a RUNNABLE file
to Expressload format?? It's not something you do on source code or
anything like that somehow, is it?? So even ancient old things that
are relatively well behaved can then be converted to expressload and
things'll fly.. RIGHT? {An example of something that's NOT well behaved:
ANYTHING from Accolade! SHEESH! Their stuff is slow, won't work with
disk caches (except one special one after they patched their program I
think), and I believe is a pain in the butt if not impossible to put
on a hard drive... If Test Drive II was a little faster in gameplay and
graphics were a little better it would be a very very good game.. now
it's only ok}
Having an Expressload version of something like MicroWings
would be neat.. (Heck, it MIGHT be Expressloaded already, I've just tried
it..)
--
/Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\
\"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) (11/09/90)
One thing that still bugs me is the scroll speed in the View by Name in the Finder. Even with a GSX and 5.0.3 it is very much slower than a Macintosh Plus! Not sure what the problem is. Brendan G. Hoar bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon, Inc.
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov8.193330.9728@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >No. The mac 'Drive' button switches drives like the 'old' Apple II drive >button. The name over the scroll window shows the path from the root to >the current folder. The System 7.0 Mac is the same, except there is a >'phantom' volume at the bottom level, showing all the volumes mounted >(Doesn't the Apple II do this?) Well the name over the scroll window on Macs is really a pull-down menu... I THOUGHT it was of all online volumes, but I think you're saying that it's just each directory from the current one, one at a time to the root. That sounds like it could be right too... But it's definitely a pull-down menu and has been that way for quite some time. -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (11/09/90)
In article <8627@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > >First off: Sorry for quoting most of the file, but I felt it necessary. > >In article <123529@tiger.oxy.edu> prophet@oxy.edu (Dale Bruce LaFountain) writes: >` o The Disk button is now the Volumes button, and when pressed will >` display all of the online volumes in the dialog. The previously >` used Disk button just polled you to the next available drive, >` so finding a specific volume (if you have lots of partitions) >` was somewhat tedious. Note: the bug in the dialog that shows >` one of your volumes (the 3rd partition on my HD, for me) in >` all uppercase still exists, but you must use Tab to change >` volumes. This new feature avoids that bug, somewhat indirectly. > WHY can't they just do it the way the Mac does? Unless I'm remembering >wrong, the Mac just uses the name over the scroll window as the "volumes" >list (always or only when you're at the root of a volume?? I forget).. No. The mac 'Drive' button switches drives like the 'old' Apple II drive button. The name over the scroll window shows the path from the root to the current folder. The System 7.0 Mac is the same, except there is a 'phantom' volume at the bottom level, showing all the volumes mounted (Doesn't the Apple II do this?) -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Tax the rich, and feed the poor -- until there are, rich no more.
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (11/09/90)
In article <cbCO0By00WB2MkonVT@andrew.cmu.edu> bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) writes: > >One thing that still bugs me is the scroll speed in the View by Name >in the Finder. Even with a GSX and 5.0.3 it is very much slower than >a Macintosh Plus! > >Not sure what the problem is. I'm not sure, either. That really bugs me about the Finder. The only thing I can think of is that they use a really, REALLY bad sort routine, and sort every time you want to scroll up or down. It's the only thing that makes the least bit of sense. Either that or they're trying to fill a huge grafport with file information. Hmm. Would anyone be interested in a "multiple shells" windowing environment, kinda like X? I don't know how hard it would be to write, but it's a thought. (No, I can't do it. I've got 1zillion projects on backlog, including the world's best Apple II emulator). >Brendan G. Hoar -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! Apple II Forever! | (B O'Cult) Comp.Sys.Apple2- Home of the Unofficial Apple II Developer Support Team (DST)
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (11/09/90)
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) writes: >In article <cbCO0By00WB2MkonVT@andrew.cmu.edu> (Brendan Gallagher Hoar) writes >>One thing that still bugs me is the scroll speed in the View by Name >>in the Finder. Even with a GSX and 5.0.3 it is very much slower than >>a Macintosh Plus! >>Not sure what the problem is. > I'm not sure, either. That really bugs me about the Finder. The only >thing I can think of is that they use a really, REALLY bad sort routine, >and sort every time you want to scroll up or down. It's the only thing >that makes the least bit of sense. Either that or they're trying to >fill a huge grafport with file information. Bingo. Finder is trying to draw ALL the text for the ENTIRE directory without doing any form of trivial reject analysis on the visible text. Quickdraw on the GS has what I believe to be a serious yet silly algorithmic flaw -- it uses some really inefficient algorithm for processing regions and worse, does no pre-clipping at all, especially with text. Text is so slow because all the off screen text is still drawn, it just isn't actually transferred to the screen in the final step. My guess is that getting rid of this problem will take some major roto-rooting of Quickdraw, so we'll have to wait for system 6. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles William Swiger) (11/09/90)
There's a program out that will create Expressload headers for files
without them. I don't remember the name, but it was mentioned in the
flyer for ZapLink from Byteworks. By the way, ZapLink creates an
Express header as well.
-- Charles William Swiger
cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edurussotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (11/09/90)
In article <8655@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > > Well the name over the scroll window on Macs is really a pull-down >menu... I THOUGHT it was of all online volumes, but I think you're saying >that it's just each directory from the current one, one at a time to the >root. That sounds like it could be right too... But it's definitely >a pull-down menu and has been that way for quite some time. > Yes, it is what Apple calls a 'Pop Up' menu, and has been since system 3.0. Are you saying Apple has replaced the Drive button with an actual volume list? That would seem to be a bit long! -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Tax the rich, and feed the poor -- until there are, rich no more.
araftis@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Alex Raftis) (11/09/90)
In article <8627@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > I sure hope they'll release a program to make EXPRESSLOAD files >yourself.. Am I correct in believing you can convert a RUNNABLE file >to Expressload format?? It's not something you do on source code or >anything like that somehow, is it?? So even ancient old things that >are relatively well behaved can then be converted to expressload and >things'll fly.. RIGHT? {An example of something that's NOT well behaved: >ANYTHING from Accolade! SHEESH! Their stuff is slow, won't work with >disk caches (except one special one after they patched their program I >think), and I believe is a pain in the butt if not impossible to put >on a hard drive... If Test Drive II was a little faster in gameplay and >graphics were a little better it would be a very very good game.. now >it's only ok} > Having an Expressload version of something like MicroWings >would be neat.. (Heck, it MIGHT be Expressloaded already, I've just tried >it..) >-- Actually, this program exists, if you've got the APW/Orca M enviroment. All you do is crunch the program to convert the load segments to version 2.0 of the loader files, then run express over it, and bang, you've got an express load file. This does not work with everything, though. Thexder crashed miser- ably when I tried it, but Deluxe Paint II ran beuatifully. In fact, it always launches from the 5.0+ finder now. Not even one crash. -- -------------------------------------------------- Internet: araftis@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU America Online: xela (Real Life: Alex Raftis)
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (11/10/90)
> WHY can't they just do it the way the Mac does? Unless I'm remembering > wrong, the Mac just uses the name over the scroll window as the "volumes" > list (always or only when you're at the root of a volume?? I forget).. Not quite... the Mac has a pop-up menu in place of the pathname list that GS/OS has. You can backup as many levels of folders as you want in one click. With GS/OS, you have to click-click-click... until you are back at the top. At the root directory, the pop-up menu doesn't list anything on the Mac. I thought System 5.0.3 would have pop-up menus in the SFDialogs! There are a few in the ImageWriter driver. > This has been there for a LONG time. I just booted up GS/OS and ran > SHRConvert to check.. clicking on the name DOES close the subdirectory. (I > ran SHRConvert to make sure it was a fairly old program. I believe the > "Standard File Dialog" may be a built-in function so I will say I was using > 5.02, but this definitely shows it's not new in 5.03). OA-Up and OA-Down will also take you up (or down) one folder level, if you're into using the keyboard. Closing a folder by clicking on the pathname has been around since the System 4.0. Besides, SHRConvert uses SF dialogs, and just because it's an old program doesn't mean it will use the old dialog boxes. It uses whatever the current system software provides. > Having an Expressload version of something like MicroWings would be > neat.. (Heck, it MIGHT be Expressloaded already, I've just tried it..) I think most of Vitesse's new software is ExpressLoaded. MicroWings is only a couple kilobytes anyway, so it probably wouldn't make much difference... \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Brian T. Tao | UUCP: torag!pnet91!taob | / \ | University of Toronto | INET: taob@pnet91.cts.com | \ The Apple II / | Scarberia, ON | taob@pro-micol.cts.com | / Lives On!! \ |:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| \ / | "Computer guru? Someone who got their computer a | /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | couple of weeks before you did." (Alvin Toffler) |
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (11/10/90)
From: bh1e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brendan Gallagher Hoar): > One thing that still bugs me is the scroll speed in the View by Name > in the Finder. Even with a GSX and 5.0.3 it is very much slower than > a Macintosh Plus! > > Not sure what the problem is. The problem is with the Finder. Instead of simply redrawing what is visible in the window, the Finder redraws the ENTIRE list of files. That's why big folders take so long to redraw. I don't know how this bug got by Apple's programmers. Try scrolling around a WP document in AppleWorks GS. It only redraws what needs to be updated, not the whole page! It should be a relatively easy fix. I don't know why they didn't upgrade the Finder for System 5.0.3 (it's still Finder 1.3!) \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Brian T. Tao | UUCP: torag!pnet91!taob | / \ | University of Toronto | INET: taob@pnet91.cts.com | \ The Apple II / | Scarberia, ON | taob@pro-micol.cts.com | / Lives On!! \ |:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| \ / | "Computer guru? Someone who got their computer a | /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | couple of weeks before you did." (Alvin Toffler) |
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (11/10/90)
From: toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) > Bingo. Finder is trying to draw ALL the text for the ENTIRE directory > without doing any form of trivial reject analysis on the visible text. > Quickdraw on the GS has what I believe to be a serious yet silly algorithmic > flaw -- it uses some really inefficient algorithm for processing regions and > worse, does no pre-clipping at all, especially with text. Text is so slow > because all the off screen text is still drawn, it just isn't actually > transferred to the screen in the final step. > > My guess is that getting rid of this problem will take some major > roto-rooting of Quickdraw, so we'll have to wait for system 6. How do word processing applications and NDA's like WriteIt and EgoEd manage huge lists then? The Finder should be able to use TextEdit to draw the folder listings. Do you know when a new version of the Finder is coming? I though for sure they would have fixed it for System 5.0.3. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Brian T. Tao | UUCP: torag!pnet91!taob | / \ | University of Toronto | INET: taob@pnet91.cts.com | \ The Apple II / | Scarberia, ON | taob@pro-micol.cts.com | / Lives On!! \ |:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| \ / | "Computer guru? Someone who got their computer a | /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | couple of weeks before you did." (Alvin Toffler) |
prophet@oxy.edu (Dale Bruce LaFountain) (11/11/90)
Speaking of the name above the dialog window being a pull-down, I noticed that this actually happens in the new installer (and maybe the older ones, too, but I never noticed). When you are choosing your volume that you want to install, say, Advanced Disk Utility on, just go a couple subdirectories down, and then hold down the button on the current path, and a menu will pop up. I think it only lists the root of your current volume though... Does the Mac's do that too, or does it list all available volumes? It's been a while since I used on of (that's 'one of') those machines. Hope this is enlightening, Dale prophet@oxy.edu
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (11/12/90)
From prophet@oxy.edu (Dale Bruce LaFountain): > Speaking of the name above the dialog window being a pull-down, I > noticed that this actually happens in the new installer (and maybe > the older ones, too, but I never noticed). When you are choosing your > volume that you want to install, say, Advanced Disk Utility on, just go > a couple subdirectories down, and then hold down the button on the > current path, and a menu will pop up. Yep. The pop-up menu was present in previous versions of the Installer. It's not a "real" menu, because it doesn't scroll if it goes off the screen (when you're really, Really, REALLY deep into nested folders!) I wonder why that still isn't available with 5.0.3? \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Brian T. Tao | UUCP: torag!pnet91!taob | / \ | University of Toronto | INET: taob@pnet91.cts.com | \ The Apple II / | Scarberia, ON | taob@pro-micol.cts.com | / Lives On!! \ |:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| \ / | "Computer guru? Someone who got their computer a | /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | couple of weeks before you did." (Alvin Toffler) |