jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (11/06/90)
Well, a bit more news on HyperCard.
1) It's somewhat slow. Now, by slow I don't mean you'll grow a beard waiting
for it to switch cards or anything. The actual card fades/dissolves are
VERY quick. for example, there is a "picture puzzle" stack. It takes
about 1 sec to switch two pieces. It's very tolerable, however, compared
things like Multiscribe //e.
(me)
2) It was released several weeks ago on an Apple Developer CD. Why there
was no news about this ANYWHERE escapes me (not in APDA, not over the news
wires, nothing). The README file was dated September 21 (AppleFest?).
(DaveW)
3) There is supposedly a Stack converter, which will translate Mac resources
in stacks to GS resources in stacks. It will NOT convert XCMDs (for obvious
reasons). (DougM)
(ed. but with that idea of a cross-compiler for 68K code, who knows if
that is permanent!)
Folks- if you have any news on HyperCard, mail me! I'll summarize and
post (the HyperCard digest!). This is BIG news, HyperCard could save the
Apple II market.
--
Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing
Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo)
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark!
Apple II Forever! | (B O'Cult)
Comp.Sys.Apple2- Home of the Unofficial Apple II Developer Support Team (DST)NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) (11/06/90)
I've been hearing alot about this Hypercard recently, isn't this just
the same thing from Roger Wagner thats been around for a few years? Whats so
different about it now?
Also, how would I use the developers CD on my GS or any CD on my GS
for that matter? It would be great. I was using an icon modifing program on
the icons in on the system disk (5.0.2) and one of the icons in the set is
a CD icon! Along with a partitioned CD icon! Does this mean that Apple intended
the GS to have CD capabilities? Is this going on now and I'm missing it?
At school here (Buffalo State) they have some Macs connectted to a CD rom in
there LAN and its impressive - with trembling anticipation I ask...GS too?
- Joe Nowakowskitoddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (11/06/90)
HyperCard GS is being developed by Apple. HyperStudio an existing product made by Roger Wagner. Apple II's have all been able to use CD ROMs since the Rev. C ROM for the original SCSI card. If the CD is on a LAN then it must be on a file server, which the GS can most definitely access. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (11/06/90)
>different about it now? > Also, how would I use the developers CD on my GS or any CD on my GS >for that matter? It would be great. I was using an icon modifing program on >the icons in on the system disk (5.0.2) and one of the icons in the set is >a CD icon! Along with a partitioned CD icon! Does this mean that Apple intended >the GS to have CD capabilities? Is this going on now and I'm missing it? >At school here (Buffalo State) they have some Macs connectted to a CD rom in >there LAN and its impressive - with trembling anticipation I ask...GS too? > - Joe Nowakowski YES! The GS can control a CD ROM drive. There's even a CD ROM remote NDA on the 5.0.2 tools disk! BUT, there's virtually nothing on CD for the GS specifically. You CAN use High-Sierrah CD's with it... That's why we have the High-Sierrah (am I spelling that right?) FST, but, you can't really do much with them (correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will:)). ________________________________________________________________ | | | | HEY! They're licking | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | FROGS in Colorado!!!! | pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |_______________________|________________________________________|
jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Desdinova) (11/06/90)
In article <0BB7D43B4DFF809804@snybufva.bitnet> NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) writes: > > I've been hearing alot about this Hypercard recently, isn't this just >the same thing from Roger Wagner thats been around for a few years? Whats so >different about it now? This is the OFFICIAL HyperCard, developed by Apple. It is the equivalent of HyperCard on the Macintosh.. and I mean equivalent! It's feature for feature identical. Apple has been talking about this for several years, and have finally come close to releasing it. > Also, how would I use the developers CD on my GS or any CD on my GS >for that matter? It would be great. I was using an icon modifing program on >the icons in on the system disk (5.0.2) and one of the icons in the set is >a CD icon! Along with a partitioned CD icon! Does this mean that Apple intended >the GS to have CD capabilities? Is this going on now and I'm missing it? >At school here (Buffalo State) they have some Macs connectted to a CD rom in >there LAN and its impressive - with trembling anticipation I ask...GS too? Absolutely. The IIgs has been able to support CD ROM since the original Apple SCSI card came out. You put in the CD, and an icon appears in the Finder (or an application). Totally transparent. > - Joe Nowakowski Jawaid "There's nothing my GS can't do (if I had the money)" Bazyar -- Jawaid Bazyar | Blondes in big black cars look better wearing Senior/Computer Engineering | their dark sunglasses at night. (unk. wierdo) jb10320@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | The gin, the gin, glows in the Dark! Apple II Forever! | (B O'Cult) Comp.Sys.Apple2- Home of the Unofficial Apple II Developer Support Team (DST)
NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) (11/06/90)
Ok, my GS can support CD ROM; but now the big question -
What is available for the GS on CD? The Mac apparantly has loads and loads of
stuff - same for us abused GS diehards?
- Joe Nowakowskigwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (11/06/90)
In article <0BB7D43B4DFF809804@snybufva.bitnet> NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) writes: > I've been hearing alot about this Hypercard recently, isn't this just >the same thing from Roger Wagner thats been around for a few years? Whats so >different about it now? No, the RWP product is HyperStudio. HyperCard is an Apple product, first developed by Bill Atkinson as I recall for the Macintosh. There was quite a battle inside Apple to allow it to be released; the argument was that it would discourage third-party software developers. Eventually it was added to the Macintosh "out-of-the-box" package. >Does this mean that Apple intended the GS to have CD capabilities? It already does! Get a SCSI interface and Apple's CD-ROM drive, and GS/OS already fully supports it (the ISO standard format only, not HFS). I think you need to set its SCSI priority to 2 in order to obtain a sufficient boot delay, as explained in Apple SCSI manuals. The real problem is that there is VERY little software for the IIGS on CD-ROMs at present, basically just developer tools (at the same time, Apple wants GS development to be done on a Mac anyway!)
dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) (11/06/90)
In article <0BB7D43B4DFF809804@snybufva.bitnet> NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) writes: > > I've been hearing alot about this Hypercard recently, isn't this just >the same thing from Roger Wagner thats been around for a few years? Whats so >different about it now? Nope, Apple really went and developed a Hypercard for the GS. It's just like version 1.2.5 on the Mac, except it has color. It can (after a bit of automatic translating) read Mac stacks, but it won't run their XCMDs (for obvious reasons). It's kinda slow right now, and it's a memory hog (it needs 1.5MB I think). Time to buy a Zip. > Also, how would I use the developers CD on my GS or any CD on my GS >for that matter? It would be great. Just use the installer from SD 5.0.2 (now 5.0.3 folks) to install the CD driver. Now turn off our GS and plug the CD drive into the SCSI chain. Presto! I've done it, it works, I've even checked out the latest Developer CD ROM (26MB of Apple // and GS stuff!). -- Dave Whitney Computer Science MIT 1990 | I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII. Send me bug dcw@lcs.mit.edu | reports. I need a job. Send me an offer. Every now and then one makes a mistake. Mine was probably this post.
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (11/07/90)
NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) writes: > > I've been hearing alot about this Hypercard recently, isn't this just >the same thing from Roger Wagner thats been around for a few years? Whats so >different about it now? > Also, how would I use the developers CD on my GS or any CD on my GS >for that matter? It would be great. I was using an icon modifing program on >the icons in on the system disk (5.0.2) and one of the icons in the set is >a CD icon! Along with a partitioned CD icon! Does this mean that Apple intended >the GS to have CD capabilities? Is this going on now and I'm missing it? >At school here (Buffalo State) they have some Macs connectted to a CD rom in >there LAN and its impressive - with trembling anticipation I ask...GS too? > - Joe Nowakowski I don't have HyperCard in my hands at this moment (but hopefully by tonight... thanks Matt!) although I've been betting nothing but positive comments from developers who HAVE used HCGS. They even said the manual for HyperCard/Mac 1.2.5 can be used for HCGS. As for the CD-ROM's, the GS can use one just as easily as any hard drive. All the drivers and FST's for reading CD-ROM's are included on the System.Disk and System.Tools disks. There is even a desk accessory which looks and acts like a remote control for an audio CD! You can play your Alannah Myles or Rush or Phil Collins CD's in your CD-ROM just like a normal CD player. Since the CD-ROM drive is just a SCSI device, you can daisy-chain it behind your hard drive and it will pop up in the Finder with the CD icon. Of course, there's a little bit of work involved to setup the system, but it is supported by GS/OS. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Brian T. Tao | UUCP: torag!pnet91!taob | / \ | University of Toronto | INET: taob@pnet91.cts.com | \ The Apple II / | Scarberia, ON | taob@pro-micol.cts.com | / Lives On!! \ |:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| \ / | "Computer guru? Someone who got their computer a | /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | couple of weeks before you did." (Alvin Toffler) |
bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) (11/07/90)
Regarding Hypercard for the GS In article <1990Nov6.134620.27254@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) writes: > It's kinda slow right now, and it's a memory hog. Sounds like an authentic port of Hypercard then :-). bob church bchurch.oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
rnf@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) (11/07/90)
NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) writes: >for that matter? It would be great. I was using an icon modifing program on >the icons in on the system disk (5.0.2) and one of the icons in the set is >a CD icon! Along with a partitioned CD icon! Does this mean that Apple intended >the GS to have CD capabilities? Is this going on now and I'm missing it? >At school here (Buffalo State) they have some Macs connectted to a CD rom in >there LAN and its impressive - with trembling anticipation I ask...GS too? > - Joe Nowakowski Yes, GS/OS has a CD-ROM driver on the setup disk that you can install. It reads "High Sierra" or ISO-9660 format CD-ROMs. The Apple CD-ROM drive is a SCSI device and works fine on the GS with either Apple SCSI card. I have not tried it with third party SCSI cards or third party SCSI CD-ROM drives. The developer cd's come in with a Apple II partition and with the Apple II files on the Mac partition. It also comes with a program called disk maker that unpacks diskmaker files directly onto a ProDos 800K floppy. In this way you can create your own system disks, for example, that are just like the distributed versions. Rick Fincher rnf@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu
knauer@suna3 (Rob Knauerhase) (11/07/90)
In article <2419@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes: >Regarding Hypercard for the GS > >In article <1990Nov6.134620.27254@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) writes: > >> It's kinda slow right now, and it's a memory hog. > >Sounds like an authentic port of Hypercard then :-). While this is true, HyperCard is really a quite significant contribution from Apple (Herzfield (sp?) in particular, of course). For that significance, look either at the impact it had on the whole hyper-media idea, or the volume of sales of HyperCard-related products. And now, the only two machines that run HyperCard are the Mac and the GS. [Before you flame about other hypermedia products, realize that none have gained the acceptance and common-use of HyperCard.] I'd expect Apple's release of HyperCard GS to be a real shot in the arm for the machine; the GS running HyperCard (in color, which is important to many people) would be a _real_ competitor to the Mac "Classic" even if they don't drop the price of the GS any. Here's hoping the bundle it with the machine rather than charging $149 or something for it... Rob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert C. Knauerhase knauer@cs.uiuc.edu U of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign rck@ces.cwru.edu,knauer@cwru.bitnet Case Western Reserve University knauer@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov NASA Lewis Research Center "<esc> : q ! <return> emacs <return>" -- all the vi you need to know...
philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov7.015013.13928@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> knauer@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) writes: [ hypercard related stuff...] >I'd expect Apple's release of HyperCard GS to be a real shot in the arm for >the machine; the GS running HyperCard (in color, which is important to many >people) would be a _real_ competitor to the Mac "Classic" even if they don't >drop the price of the GS any. HyperCard GS is a most welcome addition to the GS, should it ever be released. It will have a nice impact, but if Apple doesn't cut the GS price by around 1/2 the only people who will benefit from it will be us. Philip McDunnough University of Toronto->philip@utstat.toronto.edu [my opinions]
knauer@sunc7 (Rob Knauerhase) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov7.045949.5821@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes: >In article <1990Nov7.015013.13928@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> knauer@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) writes: > >[ hypercard related stuff...] > >>I'd expect Apple's release of HyperCard GS to be a real shot in the arm for >>the machine; the GS running HyperCard (in color, which is important to many >>people) would be a _real_ competitor to the Mac "Classic" even if they don't >>drop the price of the GS any. > >HyperCard GS is a most welcome addition to the GS, should it ever be >released. "Should it ever be released?" Apple will release it as soon as there's a color HyperCard for the Mac (after all, we can't have the GS doing things the Mac can't. But that's a whole nother flame war...). [Of course,the way they keep slipping release of HC2.0, perhaps I see what you mean! :) ] > It will have a nice impact, but if Apple doesn't cut the GS >price by around 1/2 the only people who will benefit from it will be >us. Why do you say that? I'm not sure what the cheapest color Mac costs (I long ago quit keeping track of the incremental differences in CPUs), but I'm sure that a 1.5MB GS with color montior would be cheaper. Despite Apple's push of the Mac into schools, HyperCard GS would sell a lot of GSs, and create a whole new cottage industry of GS stacks/XCMDS etc. The person I feel sorry for is Roger Wagner; no matter how good HyperStudio is (and no matter that it comes with sound hardware), I don't see it competing with Apple-sponsored HyperCard GS... Rob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert C. Knauerhase knauer@cs.uiuc.edu U of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign rck@ces.cwru.edu,knauer@cwru.bitnet Case Western Reserve University knauer@scivax.lerc.nasa.gov NASA Lewis Research Center "<esc> : q ! <return> emacs <return>" -- all the vi you need to know...
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (11/07/90)
In article <1990Nov7.061219.19130@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> knauer@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) writes: >The person I feel sorry for is Roger Wagner; no matter how good HyperStudio >is (and no matter that it comes with sound hardware), I don't see it >competing with Apple-sponsored HyperCard GS... I suspect that the majority of people who would ever buy HyperStudio have bought it by now.
bh@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Hartsfield) (11/08/90)
Well, I've heard that Hypercard GS is finished, but there are some peopl in Apple that have stopped Apple from releasing it, but there is a move to get it released. I hope this isn't true, but I just don't know.
rnf@hobbes.ncsu.edu (Rick Fincher) (11/08/90)
knauer@suna3 (Rob Knauerhase) writes: >In article <2419@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU> bchurch@oucsace.cs.OHIOU.EDU (Bob Church) writes: > >Regarding Hypercard for the GS >> Apple (Herzfield (sp?) in particular, of course). For that significance, look > Bill Atkinson, the creator of QuickDraw (on an Apple II in Apple Pascal no less!), was the creator of the original HyperCard. Not to denigrate Andy Hertzfeld, just giving credit where credit is due. Rick Fincher rnf@hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu
marekp@pnet91.cts.com (Marek Pawlowski) (11/08/90)
Our local Toronto Apple User's Group, LOGIC, had a presentation of
HyperCard 2.0 for the Mac (along with System 7.0, beta). It was obviously
powerful, fast, and a lot more thought has gone in to it, from previous
versions.. Will this reflect on the GS though..
/* Marek Pawlowski, marekp@{generic|pnet91|contact|bkj386|torag|aunix}.uucp */
/* President, Intelligent Twist Software, 250 Harding Blvd, PO BOX 32017 */
/* Richmond Hill, Ontario, L4C 9M7, CANADA. */jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Hutzelman) (11/08/90)
Rob Knauerhase@suna3 writes: > While this is true, HyperCard is really a quite significant contribution > from Apple (Herzfield (sp?) in particular, of course). For that > significance, You mean Bill Atkinson, the same guy who wrote most or all of the original QuickDraw and MacPaint? -------------------- Jeffrey Hutzelman America Online: JeffreyH11 Internet: jh4o+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: JHUTZ@DRYCAS >> Apple // Forever!!! <<
THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET ("Throop,Henry B") (11/08/90)
Rick Fincher writes: > Bill Atkinson, the creator of QuickDraw (on an Apple II in Apple Pascal > no less!), was the creator of the original HyperCard. Bill Atkinson was also the main person in charge of Apple Pascal. -- Henry Throop THROOP@GRIN1.BITNET throoph@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) (11/08/90)
In reply to the message you posted about HyperCard GS: >> Isn't this just the same thing that's been available from Roger Wagner... No, it isn't.. It's much better, actually - and it'll be able to read HyperCard Mac stacks (eventually)... >> How would I go about using the Developer CD on an Apple IIGS Well, you need a CD-ROM drive (Apple's) and driver (Apple's) installed (I don't know if one can use a different type of drive), and then you just double-click on the CD when it appears in the finder window (remember, the IIGS has both a ProDOS and High Sierra FST), I believe the CD with HyperCard IIGS and System 5.03 on it has a ProDOS partition. Dan Zimmerman
dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com (Daniel Zimmerman) (11/14/90)
>> I've heard that HyperCard GS is finished, but there are some people in Apple >> who..... No, this is DEFINITELY NOT true. Apple will release HyperCard IIGS once they get it completely debugged, etc... There have been "hints" from Apple people on America Online that HCGS will be released at AppleFest in California, early December, and this makes sense (right in time for holidays, etc...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet: dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com TFF Enterprises CompuServe: 76407,2246 America Online: Surak TFF The Final Frontier - Randolph, NJ BBS Phone: (201) 989-0545 "Learn reason above all. Learn clear thought; learn to know what is from what seems to be, and what you wish to be. This is the key to everything: the truth of reality, the reality of truth. What IS will set you free." - Surak Of Vulcan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (11/15/90)
On Tue, 13 Nov 90 17:16:05 GMT Daniel Zimmerman said: > >No, this is DEFINITELY NOT true. Apple will release HyperCard IIGS once they >get it completely debugged, etc... There have been "hints" from Apple people on >America Online that HCGS will be released at AppleFest in California, early >December, and this makes sense (right in time for holidays, etc...) One of my mac friends told me that he read, in Mac User, that a beta version of HyperCard GS was sent to dovelopers on CD ROM not too long ago. (If this is old news, sorry.) >Daniel M. Zimmerman InterNet: dzimmerman@gnh-tff.cts.com > TFF Enterprises CompuServe: 76407,2246 > America Online: Surak TFF >The Final Frontier - Randolph, NJ BBS Phone: (201) 989-0545 ______________________________________ | | | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |______________________________________|
dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) (11/15/90)
In article <9011141959.AA04825@apple.com> MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU writes: >One of my mac friends told me that he read, in Mac User, that a beta version of >HyperCard GS was sent to dovelopers on CD ROM not too long ago. >(If this is old news, sorry.) It's true, and about as old as the disc: say 3 weeks. I've got it. It works. It's slow and big. Now I've got to learn to *use* it. -- Dave Whitney Computer Science MIT 1990 | I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII. Send me bug dcw@lcs.mit.edu | reports. I need a job. Send me an offer. Every now and then one makes a mistake. Mine was probably this post.