MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (12/05/90)
On Wed, 5 Dec 90 00:11:32 CST Mark Steiger said: >I;m trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd allways be >just an Apple Magazine. now they have let the Mac's use our magazine. There By covering macs in their magazine, they're STILL an Apple only magazine. Macs are Apples too. Although, I don't like that they're doing it. >hasta be close to a dozen Mac Magazines. how many Apple Magazines are there?? >3 (Counting GS+). Why must the main Apple II magazine open its doors to the >MACS?? Let them use their other magazines. Leave ours alone!!!! Amen! > >Mark Steiger > >[ Mark Steiger, Sysop, The Igloo 218/262-3142 300/1200/2400/9600 (HST/Dual)] > >ProLine.:penguin@gnh-igloo America Online: Goalie5 >UUCP....:crash!gnh-igloo!penguin MCI Mail......: MSteiger >Internet:penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com >ARPA....:crash!gnh-igloo!penguin@nosc.mil ---------------------------------------- Michael J. Quinn University of Tennessee at Chattanooga BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
$CSD211@LSUVM.BITNET (Mark Orr) (12/05/90)
|From: Mark Steiger <penguin@GNH-IGLOO.CTS.COM> | |I'm trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd always be |just an Apple Magazine. now they have let the Mac's use our magazine. There |hasta be close to a dozen Mac Magazines. how many Apple Magazines are there?? |3 (Counting GS+). Why must the main Apple II magazine open its doors to the |MACS?? Let them use their other magazines. Leave ours alone!!!! | |Mark Steiger I support you boycott. But why would you want to bring inCider/A+ back to the fold...they want to go - let them go!! They won't last ten minutes as a pure Mac magazine. If you've read Dan Muse and Paul Statt's editorials (not to mention that David Thornburg atrocity a few months ago) over the last six months, you'll see where their interests lie. It's clear that they're Mac users masquerading as Apple II users. They talk down to Apple II users; It's very patronizing. There can be no question whose payroll they are on...Apple's. Don't just stop subscribing...let them know about it. Write inCider and tell them up which bodily orifice they can stick their magazine. ---------------------------------- | MARK A. ORR | | $CSD211 @ LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU | | @ LSUVM.BITNET | ----------------------------------
scotth@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Henderson) (12/05/90)
In article <m0igrWK-00007qC@jartel.info.com> penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark Steiger) writes: >I;m trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd allways be >just an Apple Magazine. now they have let the Mac's use our magazine. There >hasta be close to a dozen Mac Magazines. how many Apple Magazines are there?? >3 (Counting GS+). Why must the main Apple II magazine open its doors to the >MACS?? Let them use their other magazines. Leave ours alone!!!! When I first read about A+/Incider's decision to include Macintosh coverage in it's magazine, I was a bit upset. But then I went through my old A+ magazines and I found something interesting. Back in 1985, The A+ magazine said "The Independent Guide for APPLE Computing." In the upper right hand corner was a box saying "Including MACINTOSH Coverage." In 1986, the cover of A+ listed "Apple II/Macintosh" under the A+ logo. It wasn't until 1987 when A+ put "The #1 Apple II Magazine" under the A+ logo. After they did away with Macintosh info in their magazine, it took less than 2 years for the magazine to have to sell out to Incider. Now, do we REALLY want to boycott the *ONLY* (besides Nibble) comercial magazine that does more than give lip service to the Apple II? If you're upset about Incider's decision, you have to take into account the historical precedent established when A+ discarded the mac. The publishing industry is their to make money. It's understandable that Incider would want to increase it's user base. If you want an Apple II magazine only, I'd suggest you look into A2-Central. > ============================================================================== = R. Scott Henderson = "Some people claim that there's a = = University of Illinois = woman to blame, but I know it's = = = my own damned fault." = = Internet: scotth@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu = -Jimmy Buffet = = Bitnet: scotth@uiuc.vmd = = = = Apple II Forever! = ============================================================================== -- ============================================================================== = R. Scott Henderson = "Some people claim that there's a = = University of Illinois = woman to blame, but I know it's = = = my own damned fault." =
meekins@CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (timothy lee meekins) (12/06/90)
In article <1990Dec5.155227.21943@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> you write: >In article <m0igrWK-00007qC@jartel.info.com> penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark Steiger) writes: > [snip snip] > >If you're upset about Incider's decision, you have to take into account the >historical precedent established when A+ discarded the mac. The publishing >industry is their to make money. It's understandable that Incider would >want to increase it's user base. Get real!! IF I owned a Macintosh, do you seriously think I would subscribe to InCider (let's get names straight, A+ died a year ago) simple becuase it has 1 or 2 Mac articles in it?? No way. As an Apple II user, would you subscribe to PC World if they ran a single column on the Apple II. No! All InCider is doing is cutting their throats. They're going to lose 50% of their subscription to people like myself who are fed-up with them, and they're not going to gain a single new subscriber simply becuase they have a little section on Macs. Also, A+ had a Macintosh section when the Mac was new and didn't have any real magizines of its own. Also, A+ didn't drop the Mac section, but created a second magazine devoted to the Mac, and A+ returned to the apple II. FYI, Nibble also did the same thing, for about 6 months, Nibble had a section on the Macintosh, soon afterwards they created Nibble Mac and returned to publishing Apple II. Again, no one complained then because the Apple II was still doing well and the Mac didn't have many of its own magazines. > >If you want an Apple II magazine only, I'd suggest you look into A2-Central. >> > >============================================================================== >= R. Scott Henderson = "Some people claim that there's a = >= University of Illinois = woman to blame, but I know it's = >= = my own damned fault." = >= Internet: scotth@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu = -Jimmy Buffet = >= Bitnet: scotth@uiuc.vmd = = >= = Apple II Forever! = >============================================================================== > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Tim Meekins <<>> Snail Mail: <<>> Apple II << >> meekins@cis.ohio-state.edu <<>> 8372 Morris Rd. <<>> Forever! << >> timm@pro-tcc.cts.com <<>> Hilliard, OH 43026 <<>> << -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (12/06/90)
In article <m0igrWK-00007qC@jartel.info.com> penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark Steiger) writes: >I;m trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd allways be >just an Apple Magazine. now they have let the Mac's use our magazine. There >hasta be close to a dozen Mac Magazines. how many Apple Magazines are there?? >3 (Counting GS+). Why must the main Apple II magazine open its doors to the >MACS?? Let them use their other magazines. Leave ours alone!!!! Leaving aside the fact that Macs are also Apples, the obvious reason for the inclusion of Mac material is that the Apple II market is (rightly, I believe) perceived as dying out, so A+ felt they had to do something to stay in business. SoftTalk is an Apple II-only magazine...
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (12/06/90)
In article <1990Dec5.155227.21943@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> scotth@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Henderson) writes: > Now, do we REALLY >want to boycott the *ONLY* (besides Nibble) comercial magazine that does >more than give lip service to the Apple II? Nibble COMPUTIST A2-Central SoftDisk >If you're upset about Incider's decision, you have to take into account the >historical precedent established when A+ discarded the mac. The publishing >industry is their to make money. It's understandable that Incider would >want to increase it's user base. There has been a trend in inCider/A+ toward the educational market. It seems pretty clear that the expansion to Mac stuff corresponds to Apple's push for Macintoshes in education. >= R. Scott Henderson = "Some people claim that there's a = -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ..!ucbvax!cory!fadden fadden@hermes.berkeley.edu (when cory throws up)
dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Derek A. Taubert) (12/06/90)
In article <m0igrWK-00007qC@jartel.info.com> penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark Steiger) writes: >I;m trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd allways be Yea, great idea. Boycott the magazine, watch subscriptions fall, over a couple of months the magazine will start getting smaller and smaller with regards to Apple II material, and then boom. Then what will we do????? Brilliant, bloody brilliant... -- + Derek Taubert --> derek@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu + Author of : GSCii + + dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu + {MUCH more to come...} + + "Well, ...lettuce is a transformation of a dead cougar that suffered a + + relapse on a lion's toe. And he swallowed the lion and something happened. + + The ...see, the ...Gloria and Tommy, they're two heads and they're not + + whales. But they escaped with herds of vomit, and things like that." +
$CSD211@LSUVM.BITNET (Mark Orr) (12/06/90)
|From: Scott Henderson | <swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc | .edu!scotth@UCSD.EDU> | |When I first read about A+/Incider's decision to include Macintosh coverage |in it's magazine, I was a bit upset. But then I went through my old A+ |magazines and I found something interesting. Back in 1985, The A+ magazine |said "The Independent Guide for APPLE Computing." In the upper right hand |corner was a box saying "Including MACINTOSH Coverage." In 1986, the cover |of A+ listed "Apple II/Macintosh" under the A+ logo. It wasn't until 1987 whe |A+ put "The #1 Apple II Magazine" under the A+ logo. | |After they did away with Macintosh info in their magazine, it took less than |2 years for the magazine to have to sell out to Incider. Now, do we REALLY |want to boycott the *ONLY* (besides Nibble) comercial magazine that does |more than give lip service to the Apple II? Ahhhh...but there's a difference. A+ was indeed a Macintosh/ Apple II magazine, but one I could live with (a little...I accused them of the same things I find myself accusing inCider of now). The Apple II and Mac sections were SEPERATE. That is not the INTENT of the new inCider/A+. Their goal (unquestionably financed by Mac Inc.) is to INTERTWINE the Mac and Apple II. You'll see. At every turn, they'll try to convince sales of the Macintosh. In the future, expect an increase in the incidence of the phrase: "If you want more power, just buy a Mac" (it's one of their favorites) If you are an Apple II user and you give a damn about the future of the Apple II, you should: (1) Cancel your subscription to inCider/A+ forthwith (2) Write to Editors Dan (Quayle) Muse, Paul Statt, and to David Thornburg (the writer of "The Learning Curve" who wrote, a few months ago, in a magazine that claimed to be THE Apple II magazine, that the Apple II was out of steam and that its users should upgrade to the Macintosh) and tell them exactly why their rag isn't worth it's weight in dog phlegm (a video tape of them burning in effigy would complement this nicely) ---------------------------------- | MARK A. ORR | <- An angry young man | $CSD211 @ LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU | | @ LSUVM.BITNET | ----------------------------------
$CSD211@LSUVM.BITNET (Mark Orr) (12/06/90)
|In article <m0igrWK-00007qC@jartel.info.com> penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark | Steiger) writes: |>I;m trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd allways b | | Yea, great idea. Boycott the magazine, watch subscriptions fall, over a |couple of months the magazine will start getting smaller and smaller with |regards to Apple II material, and then boom. Then what will we do????? Rejoice, I expect... There are, after all several other good Apple II publications. Publications whose editors actually use Apple IIs. (like Nibble, A2-Central, GS+) Look, It's inCider's goal to convert Apple II users to the Mac (that's what Apple's paying them for...After all inCider is produced by IDG, the company which brought you AmigaWorld and MacWorld long before these machines hit the streets - they didn't do it for free) Read the editorials...they talk down to us; they act like we're fools to complain about Apple's marketing of the II. We aren't the fools...they are, if they think we are going to stick around while they insult us. Believe me, inCider needs us a lot more than we need them (as I've said, they wont last ten minutes as a Mac magazine, especially when their market is so limited...the Mac LC) |-- |+ Derek Taubert --> derek@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu + Author of : GSCii |+ dat33228@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu + "MUCH more to come..." ---------------------------------- | MARK A. ORR | | $CSD211 @ LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU | | @ LSUVM.BITNET | ----------------------------------
penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com (Mark Steiger) (12/06/90)
I;m trying to start a boycott against A+ magazine. They said they'd allways be just an Apple Magazine. now they have let the Mac's use our magazine. There hasta be close to a dozen Mac Magazines. how many Apple Magazines are there?? 3 (Counting GS+). Why must the main Apple II magazine open its doors to the MACS?? Let them use their other magazines. Leave ours alone!!!! Mark Steiger [ Mark Steiger, Sysop, The Igloo 218/262-3142 300/1200/2400/9600 (HST/Dual)] ProLine.:penguin@gnh-igloo America Online: Goalie5 UUCP....:crash!gnh-igloo!penguin MCI Mail......: MSteiger Internet:penguin@gnh-igloo.cts.com ARPA....:crash!gnh-igloo!penguin@nosc.mil
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (12/07/90)
In article <14662@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >SoftTalk is an Apple II-only magazine... It also died a VERY long time ago--before I got my IIe (in July 1985), anyway. Softalk's demise is why Tom Weishaar started producing Open-Apple (now known as A2-Central). Just putting things into historical perspective... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Alfter _/_ / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
tg.exc@pro-harvest.cts.com (Terry Guelfo) (12/07/90)
In-Reply-To: message from meekins@CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
>Garbage about everybody complaining about InCider/A+..
First, before I say anything, I must make clear that this is my OPINION. Feel
free to flame.. in email, naturally.
I respectfully suggest we all grow up. I mean, I had originally thought that
coverage of the Mac (ocassional coverage, that is) would be good, considering
that the Duet was coming out. Well, the Duet is scrapped. So, you're saying,
what do I think NOW? Well, I'm not upset. I have a GS. I used it
constantly. Is the magazine still 95% Apple II? Yes, it is. The occasional
Mac article is interesting to me. It's interesting to see what the Macs are
all about (considering I've never paid any attention to them). It's also nice
to be able to read about the software that's coming out for them.
What you've got to understand is this: it is NOT changing over to a 100% mac
mag. I won't read something like that because it doesn't cater to my
interests. It get's much to Macintoshy. The articles on the Mac that
InCider/A+ would/do publish, are those that are informative articles...
something to supplement the coverage of Apple computers in general. They're
not majorly technical. What I am getting at is that the mac info is info
that is fit for a general audience. Information for inquiring minds.
HOWEVER, if they start printing articles dealing with the motherboard
schematics and articles on the design differences between the processor this
mac uses as opposed to this mac and that it is BETTER than the GS, I WILL
cancel my subscription. I do NOT want to see this mag print mac stuff and say
"Well, the GS can't do this either." That's the last straw.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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We're tiny, we're toony, we're all a little looney....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------ART100@psuvm.psu.edu (Andy Tefft) (12/07/90)
In article <14662@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) says: > >SoftTalk is an Apple II-only magazine... Do you know something we don't? Or are you in a time warp back to the early 80's?
$CSD211@LSUVM.BITNET (Mark Orr) (12/08/90)
|From: Terry Guelfo | <usc!ucselx!crash!pro-harvest.cts.com!tg.exc@APPLE.COM> | |I respectfully suggest we all grow up. I mean, I had originally thought that |coverage of the Mac (ocassional coverage, that is) would be good, considering |that the Duet was coming out. Well, the Duet is scrapped. So, you're saying, |what do I think NOW? Well, I'm not upset. I have a GS. I used it |constantly. Is the magazine still 95% Apple II? Yes, it is. The occasional |Mac article is interesting to me. It's interesting to see what the Macs are |all about (considering I've never paid any attention to them). It's also nice |to be able to read about the software that's coming out for them. | |What you've got to understand is this: it is NOT changing over to a 100% mac |mag. I won't read something like that because it doesn't cater to my |interests. It get's much to Macintoshy. The articles on the Mac that |InCider/A+ would/do publish, are those that are informative articles... |something to supplement the coverage of Apple computers in general. They're |not majorly technical. What I am getting at is that the mac info is info |that is fit for a general audience. Information for inquiring minds. DONT YOU BELIEVE IT....Just watch! From now on, inCider/A+ will tout the Mac LC as the solution to all Apple II woes. Apple has targeted inCider/A+ because they have a number of education-oriented readers (administrators and the like) and inCider will not disappoint them. Their overall tone will be: "Oh well, the Apple II seems to be dying (go figure)...At least there's the Mac LC" ---------------------------------- | MARK A. ORR | | $CSD211 @ LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU | | @ LSUVM.BITNET | ----------------------------------
gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (12/08/90)
In article <2424@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) writes: >In article <14662@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >>SoftTalk is an Apple II-only magazine... >It also died a VERY long time ago-- Apparently you missed my point..
matthew@pro-sherwood.cts.com (Matthew McGehrin) (12/08/90)
In-Reply-To: message from scotth@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu > When I first read about A+/Incider's decision to include Macintosh coverage > in it's magazine, I was a bit upset. But then I went through my old A+ > magazines and I found something interesting. Back in 1985, The A+ magazine > said "The Independent Guide for APPLE Computing." In the upper right hand > corner was a box saying "Including MACINTOSH Coverage." In 1986, the cover > of A+ listed "Apple II/Macintosh" under the A+ logo. It wasn't until 1987 > when A+ put "The #1 Apple II Magazine" under the A+ logo. > > After they did away with Macintosh info in their magazine, it took less than > 2 years for the magazine to have to sell out to Incider. Now, do we REALLY > want to boycott the *ONLY* (besides Nibble) comercial magazine that does > more than give lip service to the Apple II? > > If you're upset about Incider's decision, you have to take into account the > historical precedent established when A+ discarded the mac. The publishing > industry is their to make money. It's understandable that Incider would > want to increase it's user base. > I agree, that eliminating the mac did not help the magazine as a whole, but perhaps they thought they could just focus on entirely on Apple // and they found out the hardway, that they couldnt. I stop subscribing once it changed over, I never really liked Incider, thats why I subscribed to A+ -- matthew ProLine : matthew@pro-sherwood | Pro-Sherwood Internet: matthew@pro-sherwood.cts.com | <NJNEW> 233-6278 (PCP) UUCP: crash!pro-sherwood!matthew | -- NJ:USA -- ARPA: crash!pro-sherwood!matthew@nosc.mil | or 1201-233-6278 (AT&T)
MQUINN%UTCVM@PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (12/08/90)
On Fri, 7 Dec 90 19:55:46 GMT Doug Gwyn said: >In article <2424@unsvax.NEVADA.EDU> alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) > writes: >>In article <14662@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes: >>>SoftTalk is an Apple II-only magazine... >>It also died a VERY long time ago-- > >Apparently you missed my point.. I mus have too. Not meaning to sound sarcastic, but, what was it? ---------------------------------------- Michael J. Quinn University of Tennessee at Chattanooga BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
NOWAKO09@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (APPLE //GS - THE POWER TO BE YOUR BEST) (12/10/90)
Why in the world would I ever want to buy A+/Intraitor magazine
if I owned a Mac? There are MANY excellent Macmags like MacWorld that
have been around for YEARS and have much more to offer a Mac user than
a corporate mouthpiece like Intraitor! *If* I end up going Mac (after my poor
GS has been so beaten that its hopeless to keep it up) I will certainly NOT
be an A-/Intraitor fan!!!
- Radioactive Flamingly Yours
- Joe Nowakowskigwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) (12/11/90)
In article <90341.101948ART100@psuvm.psu.edu> ART100@psuvm.psu.edu (Andy Tefft) writes: >In article <14662@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) says: >>SoftTalk is an Apple II-only magazine... >Do you know something we don't? Or are you in a time warp back >to the early 80's? I'm not going to explain this, because if you had been following the thread of discussion you should be able to figure out my point.
avery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) (12/15/90)
I might boycott, but it's looking like inCider/A+ is doing it for me!
Would you believe I STILL don't have the December issue????
I'd better send something to them and see if they lost a few subs from
their database while they were busy pandering to the LC types...
--
Avery Ray Colter {apple|claris}!netcom!avery {decwrl|mips|sgi}!btr!elfcat
(415) 839-4567 "I feel love has got to come on and I want it:
Something big and lovely!" - The B-52s, "Channel Z"