mkheintz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael Heintz) (12/12/90)
I hope the CirTech folks are out there listening, I have some somewhat valid reasons for them to continue work on their "DUET" project. 1) Apple Computer Company is not about to seriously support any platform that does not start with the letter "M" and we should not expect that attitude to change. I see CirTech's concern, but I think the ball is in their court now! 2) By releasing the Duet card now, CirTech will not risk the loss of invest- ment if the GS line is discontinued. They have already invested precious funds and should try to get back at least some of their investment. 3) CirTech can be the company to revive the Apple IIgs. By releasing a low cost Mac Card, people will be able to buy a "low cost" (relatively) computer that emulates the Apple II, IBM (with TransWarp), and Macintosh. PEOPLE WILL GO FOR THIS!!! Keep in mind that the IIgs emulates the IIe at the speed of the clock (2.8mHz or faster based on your accellerator...The Mac LC will only run IIe stuff at 1mHz). 4) CirTech will not have to worry about future incompatibility with the IIgs since Apple will probably never release a new version of the computer. I think it is a good idea! If any others have comments or reasons, post them for everyone to see. I think if CirTech weighs the pros and cons, they can come out ahead in this deal. THIS COULD ALSO SCREW APPLE BECAUSE IT WILL PUT THEIR PRECIOUS MACINTOSH AND PLANS TO TOTALLY ALIENATE IIGS OWNERS IN A DIFFICULT POSITION. Apple may have to support the IIgs afterall. If this happens, it will not only benefit CirTech, but all other companies which are supportive of the II in any shape or form, and it will benefit the Loyal Apple users, who need all the support (whether from Apple or other sources) they can get. QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINIONS! HELP ME GIVE CirTech A GOOD REASON TO REVIVE THE ALMOST COMPLETED "DUET!" Thanks! Apple II forever! Michael Heintz Oakland University, Rochester Michigan mkheintz@vela.acs.oakland.edu
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (12/12/90)
mkheintz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael Heintz) writes: >3) CirTech can be the company to revive the Apple IIgs. By releasing a low >cost Mac Card, people will be able to buy a "low cost" (relatively) computer >that emulates the Apple II, IBM (with TransWarp), and Macintosh. >PEOPLE WILL GO FOR THIS!!! No they won't. The PCT is a low end PC clone at best. It will admittedly run most of the business software, but EGA/VGA games are out. The Duet was supposedly going to use the IIgs screen for output -- this kills it before it starts. People are not going to put up with either a 320x200 mac or a 640x200 mac. Also, getting the software to work will be a royal pain. The Duet is really not viable for the same reasons that a IIgs-emulating Mac isn't -- the hardware layout is so different that is simply isn't worth it. >Keep in mind that the IIgs emulates the IIe at the speed of the clock (2.8mHz >or faster based on your accellerator...The Mac LC will only run IIe stuff >at 1mHz). not true -- the LC's //e card runs at 1 or 2 mhz. It's soldered though (i.e. you can't replace it with a Zip Chip) but the //e card is really just a checklist item. It's only real purpose is to lever the Mac into schools and in doing so kill the GS on its last battlefield. Whether it will or not is still a question. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (12/12/90)
In article <4216@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mkheintz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael Heintz) writes: >I hope the CirTech folks are out there listening, I have some somewhat valid >reasons for them to continue work on their "DUET" project. Don't assume ANYONE reads UseNet or is on any computer network unless they say so directly. MAIL THEM A LETTER. And yes, I mean and old-fashioned, archaic PAPER letter! Get LOTS of other people to write letters... Not a petition or anything, but EACH person a letter... I will probably write to them over the break... I hope you will also write to Origin about Ultima VI GS! -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ |WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. | \ "Dammit Bev, is it you inside or is it the clown?" -IT by Stephen King /
rankins@argentina (raymond r rankins) (12/12/90)
In article <1990Dec12.063443.28466@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, toddpw@nntp-server (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: >not true -- the LC's //e card runs at 1 or 2 mhz. It's soldered though (i.e. >you can't replace it with a Zip Chip) but the //e card is really just a >checklist item. It's only real purpose is to lever the Mac into schools and >in doing so kill the GS on its last battlefield. Whether it will or not is >still a question. Apparently, schools are going for Macs. Some are switching to IBM, but most are staying with Apple and buying Macs. I was talking to a teacher who teaches computers at a local high school, and she said they already had replaced a number of IIGS's with Macs. (she's a IIGS owner and really likes the machine, so apparently she wasn't involved in the decision to buy Macs) She says her school district is planning on buying Mac LCs once they are available, and no longer plan on buying any Apple II hardware because they can now get a Mac for the same price or less. I got the impression that this is the consensus at most other schools as well. It appears that Apple has got the education market pretty well brain washed into buying whatever Apple wants to sell them (hmmm... remember the famous 1984 Apple commercial? :^) Ray Ray Rankins |(518) 387-7174 | INTERNET: rankins@argentina.crd.ge.com 2 Moonglow Rd. |(518) 583-3320 | COMPUSERVE: 71131,3236 Gansevoort, NY 12831 | | AmericaOnline: RayRankins <insert standard disclaimer here> | GEnie: R.Rankins
rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (12/13/90)
Here at UCR I can buy a Mac II LC for $1400. They don't sell GSes to students. A GS from a local dealer with two floppies (no hard disk) a color monitor, and some software bundled in costs $2,500. A Mac LC with a 40 Meg hard disk, color monitor, and better software costs less. CIRTECH's card isn't gonna revive the GS! *** Randy Hyde O-)
platkus@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Shawn W Platkus) (12/13/90)
The Duet would be the best thing to hit the GS market in a long time! The Only question I have though is that with Apple's new low cost macs, can CIrTech make this card cheap enough. I can get a Mac Classic with a 40 megabyte hard drive for only $999.99. I know Duet is suppose to have a 68020 whereas the Classic only has a 68000. Can someone give an estimated price of the Duet if it were to come out. No doubt it would be cheaper than the LC with the GS's hardware already purchased. The bottom line is that I LIKE THE GS BETTER THAN A MAC, andI'm sure many others do too! So, I would buy the Duet over a Mac for the compatibility reasons, and still use all of my favorite GS software. I say save the Duet!, The GS would greatly benefit from it! Shawn Platkus
AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET (12/14/90)
If we are to write to these people, could we have addresses? Anyone?
avarg@gnh-applesauce.cts.com (Abel Vargas) (12/15/90)
When is Apple going to kill the //e, //c, and //c+, and cut the price of the GS in half? That's pretty much what they're going to have to do, as an LC system costs several hundred dollars less than a GS system. WHo the hell wants a GS when they can have a Mac? (The other question is: who the hell wants a Mac when they can get a '486 for the same price, but that's another story)... INET: avarg@gnh-applesauce.cts.com UUCP: crash!pnet01!gnh-applesauce!avarg ARPA: crash!pnet01!gnh-applesauce!avarg@nosc.mil
$CSD211@LSUVM.BITNET (Mark Orr) (12/15/90)
|From: Abel Vargas <avarg@GNH-APPLESAUCE.CTS.COM> | | When is Apple going to kill the //e, //c, and //c+, and cut the price of the |GS in half? That's pretty much what they're going to have to do, as an LC |system costs several hundred dollars less than a GS system. WHo the hell wants |a GS when they can have a Mac? (The other question is: who the hell wants a Ma |when they can get a '486 for the same price, but that's another story)... It seems crazy to offer a computer system that you don't want people to buy. But that is exactly what Apple is doing. Apple dosen't want people to buy GSs. They want you to buy Macs. Then why keep the Apple II around? Rest assured, they're not thinking of you. They're going to keep producing the //e and IIgs for a little while to keep education customers happy. But as Mac Classic/ Mac LC sales pick up, down comes the guillotine on the Apple II line. Apple has already killed the //c+ (they killed the //c quite some time back). Apple is just looking for a reason to kill the Apple II series. Who wants a Mac, when you can get a superior PC at the same price? Beats me. ---------------------------------- | MARK A. ORR | | $CSD211 @ LSUVM.SNCC.LSU.EDU | | @ LSUVM.BITNET | ----------------------------------
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (12/16/90)
In article <m0ikW4C-0000F1C@jartel.info.com> avarg@gnh-applesauce.cts.com (Abel Vargas) writes: > > When is Apple going to kill the //e, //c, and //c+, and cut the price of the >GS in half? That's pretty much what they're going to have to do, as an LC >system costs several hundred dollars less than a GS system. WHo the hell wants >a GS when they can have a Mac? (The other question is: who the hell wants a Mac >when they can get a '486 for the same price, but that's another story)... The real question is: Who the hell wants a '486 at all. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (12/16/90)
avarg@gnh-applesauce.cts.com (Abel Vargas) writes: > Who the hell wants a GS when they can have a Mac? I do. The Mac is a beast to program. It's O/S design reminds me of what might have happened if the enhanced //e firmware were hacked to support desktop programming and the prodos MLI via the BRK vector. GS/OS is a hell of a lot nicer -- it has the best designed calling conventions of any O/S (fully extensible parameter lists and such). The main thing I still want to see done is real process support based on the UserID system. This would make multifinders a lot easier than the Mac one was, and will make unix style shells extremely easy to support. As a programmer, I feel that O/S research is due for a revolution soon anyway. Until then, give me GS/OS. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (12/16/90)
In article <1990Dec16.084707.1689@nntp-server.caltech.edu> toddpw@nntp-server.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) writes: >avarg@gnh-applesauce.cts.com (Abel Vargas) writes: > >> Who the hell wants a GS when they can have a Mac? > >I do. > >The Mac is a beast to program. While I'd rather have a GS than a Mac also, is that really a fair statement? I'm not into programming under the ToolBox (yet), but, with the exception of taskmaster, aren't programming the GS and Mac under a high level language VERY similar? (And you can remove the wonderfulness of taskmaster yourself if you want to.. That is, don't use it and do extra work yourself) Just curious.. -- /Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu MAIL ME FOR INFO ABOUT CHEAP CDs\ |WRITE TO ORIGIN ABOUT ULTIMA VI //e and IIGS! Mail me for addresses, & info. | \ "Dammit Bev, is it you inside or is it the clown?" -IT by Stephen King /
rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) (12/17/90)
In article <4216@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, mkheintz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael Heintz) writes: > 3) CirTech can be the company to revive the Apple IIgs. By releasing a low > cost Mac Card, people will be able to buy a "low cost" (relatively) computer > that emulates the Apple II, IBM (with TransWarp), and Macintosh. > PEOPLE WILL GO FOR THIS!!! This really isn't a very valid reason. The only people that will buy the card are people who already have a IIgs and want to run some MAC stuff. If someone is looking for a new computer that runs both Mac and Apple II software, they will invest in a Mac LC. (Which would cost less than an Apple IIgs with the Duet, I can't imagine them getting the card out the door for less than $400-$500 dollars, especially if it comes with a 68020.) > Keep in mind that the IIgs emulates the IIe at the speed of the clock (2.8mHz > or faster based on your accellerator...The Mac LC will only run IIe stuff > at 1mHz). The emulator card runs at 1 and 2 MHz, which for Apple II stuff, is plenty fast. (How fast do schools need to run Appleworks at, anyway? And the education software for II will probably be not to useable at 2 MHz, especially the old software that won't take this into account. I could imagine the screams from students on how fast timers go by in their prgs now. "The timer said I had ten seconds left, but went by like it was 5!!") > 4) CirTech will not have to worry about future incompatibility with the IIgs > since Apple will probably never release a new version of the computer. > > I think it is a good idea! If any others have comments or reasons, post them > for everyone to see. I think if CirTech weighs the pros and cons, they can > come out ahead in this deal. THIS COULD ALSO SCREW APPLE BECAUSE IT WILL PUT > THEIR PRECIOUS MACINTOSH AND PLANS TO TOTALLY ALIENATE IIGS OWNERS IN A > DIFFICULT POSITION. Do you really want to screw over the company that brought the Apple into existence? They are making plenty of money off of their Mac lines, and the only reason they are still supporting the IIgs is because of schools investments in them. (They still are supporting them, you remember the newest version of the System and Finder, don't you?) > Apple may have to support the IIgs afterall. If this happens, it will not only > benefit CirTech, but all other companies which are supportive of the II in > any shape or form, and it will benefit the Loyal Apple users, who need all > the support (whether from Apple or other sources) they can get. Apple is making the smart move, even though a lot of people may not agree with it. The IIgs and IIs cannot compete in todays world, and Apple fears that if they don't get some high-powered equipment into the schools now, schools will start purchasing IBMs. (Ohhhhh nooooo!!!!) BTW what are the current prices for IIgs's, anyway? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ryan 'Gozar' Collins ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ o__)\ rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET / ) RC1DSANU@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu / / ____ R.COLLINS1 (On GEnie) /(____/__(_) o)_/ /) [ || ] Atari Computers, "There is no Substitute." [ || ] They're not just Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, lbh'er geniryvat // || \\ for breakfast gbb pybfr! // || \\ anymore ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Yea, right, thats what I said.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (12/18/90)
In-Reply-To: message from russotto@eng.umd.edu >The real question is: Who the hell wants a '486 at all. >-- >Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu > .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus. ME ME ME!!! / \ / / ______________________________________________________ \\\' , / // ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\//, _/ //, INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \_-//' / //<, /\\ UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \ /// <//` //\\\ ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil / >> \\\`__/_ ///\\\\ /,)-^>> _\` \\\ ////\\\\\ The opinions expressed here belong to (/ \\ /\\\ // IIgs \\\ no entity(s), living or dead! // _//\\\\ ------------------------------------------------------ ((` ((
rhyde@koufax.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (12/19/90)
>> Who wants a 486?
Running at 50 Mhz! Add me to the list.ronl@pnet91.cts.com (Ron Lewin) (12/19/90)
People keep claiming that the Apple IIgs cannot compete in today's market.
Bullshit. Last year, the Apple sold $450 million worth of Apple II equipment.
While this may not be as high as the $1 billion from 2 years ago, it is still
significantly high. And recognize that these sales were made despite the fact
that Apple has not been promoting the Apple II at all and had even been
promoting the Mac over the Apple II to the educational market. BTW, Apple has
lost educational market share for the past four consecutive years.
Please send all replies to:
INet: zoo.toronto.edu!generic!pnet91!ronl
or
: ronl@pnet91.cts.comjerry@polygen.uucp (Jerry Sheckel) (12/20/90)
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: > >The real question is: Who the hell wants a '486 at all. > Just about anyone who has worked with one. Anyone who appreciates the built-in numeric coprocessor, cache, and 32-bit processing. Anyone who appreciates being able to run a real OS, like UNIX System V Release 4, on his machine. Anyone who appreciates being able to use his computer for getting his work done, instead of just looking at pretty pictures (but if you must, a '486 will let you do that just fine, too!). > >Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu > -- +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------------------+ | JERRY J. SHEKHEL | POLYGEN CORPORATION | When I was young, I had to walk | | Drummers do it... | Waltham, MA USA | to school and back every day -- | | ... In rhythm! | (617) 890-2175 | 20 miles, uphill both ways. | +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------------------+ | ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry | | jerry@polygen.com | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+