STEIN@UCONNVM.BITNET (Alan Stein) (11/30/90)
Browsing through the APPRODUCT area of Compu$erve for the first time in a
while, I ran across the following messages of interest.
#: 44382 S1/JOHN SCULLEY!
31-Oct-90 15:21:50
Sb: HERE COMES SCULLEY!
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: ALL
Hi Everyone!
I'm sure you all wish to join me in welcoming John Sculley to MAUG! This is
truly an historic occasion as the top executive of a huge computer corporation
like Apple makes time to come online and meet and talk with us! John is
appearing in the Macintosh New User Forum (GO MACNEW) and in the Apple II and
III Productivity Forum (GO APPROD)..
Here are just a few things to know about how we will be conducting this area:
As you can imagine, John's responsibilities mean that he simply can't check on
every day. But, he will be here as often as his schedule will allow him. And,
rest assured that every message addressed to John will be seen by him as people
from Apple will drop by regularly to capture section 12 here for John's
perusal.
This is not a technical support hotline. Please do not raise technical support
issues ("How can I get my SCSI card to work") here.
John will most likely reply to questions that more than one person asks in a
sort of group reply. Also, John asks that people not send EMAIL to him because,
to maximize his time on CompuServe, he wishes to have all his messages posted
publicly in the two Forums
But John is, indeed, looking forward to and planning on interacting personally
with as many MAUG members as he can! So, let's all try to make John's visit
here both informative and fun for us, John, and the whole Apple II Community!
Thanks much,
-- Neil Shapiro
Chief Sysop
#: 44384 S1/JOHN SCULLEY!
31-Oct-90 15:26:21
Sb: #Welcome John!
Fm: Neil Shapiro/Chief Sysop 76703,401
To: John Sculley, 70007,3147 (X)
Hi John --
Welcome to MAUG! I know that this is not your first time "here" as I recall
both the Stockholders' meeting we held online as well as the online new Mac
products announcement of a couple years back. I guess it's no surprise to you
that the Apple Community is more connected then ever and that we are all
extremely excited and honored that you would be here to meet us.
Traditionally, I usually start off a guest appearance here by throwing out the
first question of the "session." Well, I don't think that there will be much
need for me to try to drum up discussion as I am sure you will be inundated
with all sorts of questions very soon!
So, rather then ask you a direct question, I'd like to ask you what it is that
you would like to discuss here? Here we have, waiting for you, probably the
most representative cross-section of the Apple II Community that you could ever
find. We have programmers, we have artists, we have professional people, we
have blue-collar workers, we have people who love their Apple II's, and we have
people who think of their Apple II's simply as tools. Our membership has both
the CEOs from some of the world's top software and hardware firms as well as
people who are quite new to using their computers. All concerned with using
their Apple II's and the future of that computer.
I wonder if there is anything you might like to ask us as to what we all might
perceive as Apple's future, or our reactions to Apple's plans or goals?
Whatever you would like to discuss -- please feel free to drop a message to ALL
about it because I know that you will get a tremendous response.
Again, thanks for being here and thank you for running a company like Apple
which cares so much about the people who use their products.
-- Neil Shapiro (Chief Sysop)
__________________________________________________________
| |
| Alan H. Stein | stein@uconnvm.bitnet |
| Department of Mathematics | |
| University of Connecticut | Compu$erve 71545,1500 |
| 32 Hillside Avenue | GEnie ah.stein |
| Waterbury, CT 06710 | SNET (203) 757-1231 |
|__________________________________________________________|STEIN@UCONNVM.BITNET (Alan Stein) (12/01/90)
I spent nearly an hour looking through messages to and from John Sculley on Compu$erve. Most of the messages to John could have been written by members of our list. Almost all went unanswered; the few answers from Sculley (or his ghostwriter) were standard pablum which, between the lines, seemed to indicate that is no hope that Apple will ever give any decent amount of support to the Apple II line. Sculley made it quite clear that Apple will never again sell a stand alone Apple II. And we all know that, if no new models are ever introduced, it's just a matter of time before the promised support and enhancements vanish, as well as any hope of new software. In two and a half years, my daughter will be going off to college and my family will need at least one new computer. I hope there's some company, somewhere, producing an exciting, affordable, useful computer at that time. __________________________________________________________ | | | Alan H. Stein | stein@uconnvm.bitnet | | Department of Mathematics | | | University of Connecticut | Compu$erve 71545,1500 | | 32 Hillside Avenue | GEnie ah.stein | | Waterbury, CT 06710 | SNET (203) 757-1231 | |__________________________________________________________|
sb@pnet91.cts.com (Stephen Brown) (12/02/90)
Alan H. Stein (STEIN@CONNVM.BITNET) writes: >I spend nearly an hour looking through messages to and from John Sculley >on Compu$erve. Most of the messages to John could have been written by >members of our list. Almost all went unanswered; the few answers from [cut] >lines, seemed to indicate that is no hope that apple will ever give any >decent amount of support to the Apple II line. > >Sculley made it quite clear that Apple will never again sell a >stand alone Apple II. And we all know that, if no new models are ever Sculley isn't Apple. And he could (and may very well be) dumped. Then what? Sculley has reigned while Apple's marketshare has blossomed, and is now beginning to seriously atrophy. Apple will not be happy selling Mac Classics and nothing else. And that's what they seem to be doing these days. My point: Apple wants to make money. If they made money selling selling standalone Apple II's, then they'll have to do it, despite Sculley or anyone else there. Puette (Apple USA Prez) said: "...we have no plans... to introduce new, standalone Apple II models..." He also said "... at this time..." I don't trust 'em any more than anyone else does. But let's not take the Apple II's discontinuation as a foregone conclusion... if we did, then there would be no point in trying to change that, would there? Stephen Brown UUCP: lsuc!graham!pnet91!sb INET: sb@pnet91.cts.com
taob@pnet91.cts.com (Brian Tao) (12/03/90)
You ran across the intro to Sculley's public forum on CompuServe about a month back. I've read buffered messages, and in about 130K worth of text, I found only ONE message from God himself: Sculley introducing himself. The rest were all questions put up by forum participants. In the messages that I read, Sculley had not answered a single one. There were reports that he spent most of his time in the Macintosh forum, answering questions about new products and System 7. How typical... :( \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Brian T. Tao | UUCP: torag!pnet91!taob | / \ | University of Toronto | INET: taob@pnet91.cts.com | \ The Apple II / | Scarberia, ON | taob@pro-micol.cts.com | / Lives On!! \ |:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::| \ / | "Computer guru? Someone who got their computer a | /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ | couple of weeks before you did." (Alvin Toffler) |
tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) (12/06/90)
In article <9012010506.AA06783@apple.com> STEIN@UCONNVM.BITNET (Alan Stein) writes: > >I spent nearly an hour looking through messages to and from John Sculley >on Compu$erve. Most of the messages to John could have been written by >members of our list. Almost all went unanswered; the few answers from >Sculley (or his ghostwriter) were standard pablum which, between the >lines, seemed to indicate that is no hope that Apple will ever give any >decent amount of support to the Apple II line. > >Sculley made it quite clear that Apple will never again sell a >stand alone Apple II. And we all know that, if no new models are ever >introduced, it's just a matter of time before the promised support and >enhancements vanish, as well as any hope of new software. Alan! You are amazed by this? You, who have been on this list for some time? I'M SHOCKED! This whole idea that Apple would actually (for frickin' once in their history) tell us the truth about ANYTHING to do with the Apple II is ludacris to say the least. For some reason, Apple Inc. has always has this mystical idea that the second they tell us anything about what is actually going to happen to the Apple II their entire company will fold, though, they may not be far from the truth. For now, they are satisfied to put out a number of old technology Macs, IMHO, and keep the profit margins up where they `should be'. When any 3rd party comes out with real cutting edge technology today they sure as hell will not put it towards a computer system that has its own company refusing to keep it up with the times. What's really funny (at least to me and those who know what I do) is the fact that even my company has a better upgrade ratio than the Apple II! Well, at least I have finally reached the financial position where I can truthfully say that come tax time I will either be buying the newest //gs on the market which Apple has finally released or getting (what I consider) a good computer system that will grow and doesn't have the problems in political corners which have plagued the Apple II since the creation of Jobs Inc. inside of Apple. Considering that I grew up on Apple II's and have stayed loyal to them for the most part on my hobbyist ventures (except for a few good deals I couldn't pass up) I really find this sad that I will not be spending my next major computer fund on an Apple computer. Quite frankly, the only reason that I would ever consider buying a Mac anything would be for product development with friends like Russ Gibson, who have showed me time and time again that most folks buy Macs never get much past the stage of desktopping and MacWrite. My next computer purchase (if a new //gs doesn't show up by the end of January 1991) will definitely be an Amiga 3000 running the latest release of Unix. But, supposedly the 3500 will be hitting the market at that time and I may have to see it tested a bit so the purchase may wait till a month from that release. Truthfully, if I was not a member of the Apple II community who has been subjected to all the politically biased marketting (not subjective market mind you, but pure politics) which I have seen time and time again from Apple Inc. I would probably be purchasing a Mac II something. But, when I look at the company's past history towards an installed computer user base that has been more loyal to them than a lot of religions in the world I just do not want to take the chance with an outlay of money that for me is equivalent to what I have paid for most cars ($6K to $9K). >In two and a half years, my daughter will be going off to college and my >family will need at least one new computer. I hope there's some >company, somewhere, producing an exciting, affordable, useful computer >at that time. > > __________________________________________________________ >| | >| Alan H. Stein | stein@uconnvm.bitnet | There is! I truly feel that the Amiga, and the user base of installed hackers on that system encompass what I am looking for in a computer and the support for said computer. I went to a local Portland Apple Users meeting last week to demo Proline and most of the people there did not even know how to boot up GS/OS on a new disk/hard drive! Gone are the days of 60 people sitting around playing the latest Apple II game, gone are the days of picking apart someone's code, gone are the days of simple fun that I had with other Apple II hackers. Today they are into Amiga's, Next's and Unix. This says something about the computer, I believe, and the company's support (at least as perceived by the users, software developers and hardware developers). Well, at least if I do go Amiga I'll have a good reason to finally get a decent terminal program for that machine. Todd South (wondering if Andy will talk to me again :) -- -- tsouth@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!tsouth Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) (12/09/90)
In article <1990Dec6.062544.22949@techbook.com> tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) writes:
[stuff re Apple, marketing, new computer purchase, A3500, A3000,etc...cut]
I don't want to put down the Amiga as it is a very nice computer but if you
are expecting more from Commodore than from Apple in terms of support, you
must not be reading the same computer information that I do.
There is an issue that many people forget when buying a computer and that is
what they are buying it for. The Mac and the Amiga are overkill as just plain
terminals and they are both underpowered for most workstation type work. In
the Amiga()'s case, it is hampered even more by a lack of software support.
If you want Unix, you don't buy an Amiga, Mac,etc...Go get a Unix workstation.
There is a price war in that arena. You can get a NeXTStation, Sparc,etc...
for less than the cost of an Amiga 3000UX, MacII()+A/UX,etc...I opted for a
NeXT cube as it was as close to a micro as I could find in the Unix world.
Thus my main setup has now become a GS as a terminal and a NeXT for work. Havingbeen in the Mac world for years, I must tell you that the micro world is
falling behind rapidly in terms of price/performance. I see no point in
Commodore, Apple,etc...pushing Unix( except as a way of getting government
contracts). They should concentrate on their native OS's.
That leaves the GS. Unless Apple lowers its price by half, it will be history
very soon. I love the computer. I could, however, never justify its price
compared to the competition now( but I could a year ago).
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto-> philip@utstat.toronto.edu
[my opinions]scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) (12/11/90)
In a message that was really long Todd South said something like, "Today they are into Amiga's, Next's and Unix. This says something about the computer, I believe, and the company's support (at least as perceived by the users, software developers and hardware developers)." Welp, Todd, you aren't speaking for me. As a developer of software for the Apple IIGS, I think things are going to turn around. I wouldn't have released Allison had I thought anything different. _______________________________________________________________________________ | Scott Gentry * ALPE AFL Scott * I never said that!| | 2051 Mercator Drive * GEnie W.GENTRY * But you never | | Reston, VA 22091 * UUCP: uunet!ingr!ne1300! * know! | | (703) 264-5652 * brnded!scott * Do You? | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
carnahan@inljeff.den.mmc.com (Rich Carnahan) (12/11/90)
In article <m0ij5sk-0000CeC@jartel.info.com>, scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) writes: > Welp, Todd, you aren't speaking for me. As a developer of software for the > Apple IIGS, I think things are going to turn around. I wouldn't have released > Allison had I thought anything different. Mr. Gentry, you are a breath of fresh air. Cheers. Rich =================================================================== --------------> rich <-------------- (carnahan@inljeff.den.mmc.com) Martin Marietta Information Systems Group Box 1260 MS XL8058 Denver, Colorado 80201-1260 (303) 971-7981
avery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) (12/15/90)
tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) writes: >I went to a local Portland Apple Users >meeting last week to demo Proline and most of the people there did not >even know how to boot up GS/OS on a new disk/hard drive! Gone are the >days of 60 people sitting around playing the latest Apple II game, gone >are the days of picking apart someone's code, gone are the days of simple >fun that I had with other Apple II hackers. I can't say much better about the San Francisco Apple Core's GS SIG. I saw something earlier about a new group in SF I haven't heard of before, and I might switch to them. Far as I can tell, the Core is dead. Or at least lethargic. It's eery going to a meeting for the most recent II machine, and being one of six people, and the other five are all old enough to be my parents! And as you said, a few of these guys use their machines in very primitive ways. Oh well... maybe this new group will be better. -- Avery Ray Colter {apple|claris}!netcom!avery {decwrl|mips|sgi}!btr!elfcat (415) 839-4567 "I feel love has got to come on and I want it: Something big and lovely!" - The B-52s, "Channel Z"
avery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) (12/15/90)
Hunnnh?
Just what is ALLISON???
Funny, I had a crush for three years on a big red-headed mechanical
engineering major by that name....
--
Avery Ray Colter {apple|claris}!netcom!avery {decwrl|mips|sgi}!btr!elfcat
(415) 839-4567 "I feel love has got to come on and I want it:
Something big and lovely!" - The B-52s, "Channel Z"tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) (12/15/90)
In article <m0ij5sk-0000CeC@jartel.info.com> scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) writes: >In a message that was really long Todd South said something like, "Today they >are into Amiga's, >Next's and Unix. This says something about the computer, I believe, and >the company's support (at least as perceived by the users, software >developers and hardware developers)." > >Welp, Todd, you aren't speaking for me. As a developer of software for the >Apple IIGS, I think things are going to turn around. I wouldn't have released >Allison had I thought anything different. > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >| Scott Gentry * ALPE AFL Scott * I never said that!| >| 2051 Mercator Drive * GEnie W.GENTRY * But you never | >| Reston, VA 22091 * UUCP: uunet!ingr!ne1300! * know! | >| (703) 264-5652 * brnded!scott * Do You? | >|_____________________________________________________________________________| Great! Believe me, Scott, just because I might go into Amiga's now, or whatever does not mean that I want the Apple IIgs to die! Unfortunately, there are realities that I see everday which show me different opinions from what are considered foundation Apple II software companies (IMHO). Next time you get a chance give Central Point Software a call and ask them why no new development of Apple II products is planned, including any future versions of Copy II+, a program I think we can all agree is owned by almost every Apple II computer owner. Todd South -- -- tsouth@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!tsouth Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) Voice: +1 503 646-8257 Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks
alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu (SCOTT ALFTER) (12/16/90)
In article <18832@netcom.UUCP> avery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) writes: >tsouth@techbook.com (Todd South) writes: >>I went to a local Portland Apple Users >>meeting last week to demo Proline and most of the people there did not >>even know how to boot up GS/OS on a new disk/hard drive.... > >I can't say much better about the San Francisco Apple Core's GS SIG. I dunno if I should be capping on them like this, but many of the members of SNAFUG (the Southern Nevada Apple Family User Group) are pretty much the same. There are a few programmer-types in the group, but nobody who's really interested in really hacking the Apple II. (And it's not because the Mac-types have taken over; Apple II users still comprise the majority of the group's membership, and IIs outnumber Macs 2-1 at most meetings. (Some people pack their computers and take them to the meetings; we usually get a IIe, a IIGS, and a Mac-something-or-other.)) Probably the worst thing Apple has done for the hacker community was to introduce the Macintosh, a machine which is almost completely unhackable and which removed a certain mystique that computers had until the Mac's introduction. <donning asbestos suit> Scott Alfter-----------------------------_/_---------------------------- / v \ Apple II: Internet: alfter@uns-helios.nevada.edu ( ( the power to be your best! GEnie: S.ALFTER \_^_/
scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) (12/20/90)
In a recent article, Avery Colter said, "Just what is ALLISON??? " Allison is a program that uses the Enhanced Vision Plus digitizer to produce what I feel are the best 16 color pictures in both monochrome and color the GS can produce. It is available from New Concepts at (815) 338-4227. I am the co-author, Jonah Stich is my co-author. Allison was released on December 1st and shown at Applefest in Long Beach. Take what I say with a grain of salt. The proof is in the demo pictures uploaded to America Online, and GEnie. Hope this helps. Scott _______________________________________________________________________________ | Scott Gentry * ALPE AFL Scott * I never said that!| | 2051 Mercator Drive * GEnie W.GENTRY * But you never | | Reston, VA 22091 * UUCP: uunet!ingr!ne1300! * know! | | (703) 264-5652 * brnded!scott * Do You? | |_____________________________________________________________________________|