stevep@pro-sol.cts.com (Steve Palmore) (12/15/90)
IMPRESSIONS OF THE APPLEFEST
Having owned and very actively used APPLE II computers of one
model or another since 1979, I have always been a staunch supporter of
the device and all of it's mystic. I've been actively involved in San
Diego's Apple II users groups ever since t here were none. I attended
the Applefest as an individual user, not from the educational
standpoint. And I did like what I saw.
What I saw at the Long Beach Applefest this last weekend did not
let me down in my beliefs even though things have seemed to slow down
a bit. There was still the electric excitement of the exploration of
the unknown limits of this machine. Sti ll the knowledge that the
only real limit to the capabilities of the Apple II was the
individuals imagination (and a few bucks). This has shown in the past
to reveal really amazing effects that people would remark that "you
can't do that on that lit tle machine" or " it wasn't designed to do
that". I saw products at the 'fest such as NEW CONCEPTS "VISION PLUS"
real time video digitizer operating with a software package called
"Alison" capable of capturing true color renditions of live video wit
h out the usual "hold it, this will take six seconds to scan". I saw
healthy competitive action with both ZIP TECHNOLOGY and APPLIED
ENGINEERING booths talking about their respective speed up devices. I
don't think that I will make any comments here about my preferences
there. There's plenty of others that will be happy to offer their
opinions.
Apple's seemingly lack of interest in the home market and
somewhat lackluster treatment of anything dealing with advancement of
the APPLE II line in general does bother many people who want more and
newer models of the machine. I for one believ e that one stable
machine will allow more inventive programers and design engineers to
explore the depths of that machine and not be so concerned about the
'new versions coming out every two or three months'. How many MACS are
there now and what is t he overall compatibility? A good machine I'm
sure but more than I need or want to spend.
I was quite surprised at what I thought was an obvious absence of
the producers of various storage media. In that I refer to Hard
Drives, CD Drives, although AE did have their exciting new 3.5 1600k
replacement for Apples rather expensive 3.5" drive. Even though AE's
big little drive could be quite useful for hard drive back up use, you
won't find any software in the 1600k format. I know that when one of
my drives gives up the ghost that the only choice will be the AE
version should they still be in business when that happens. I did
wander to the "OTHER" side of the house (MAC), just to see what the
competition was up to. I saw little evidence of new hard drive
technology there either. I did see a lot of hard drives in use but
little for sale from venders. There was a company showing off a CD
rom on the Apple II side that was quite interesting and a portable
unit as well, (Digital Data Express) with a price that was fairly
attractive. But it was still more than I could afford. I'm still
waiting for the day when you can purchase CD device that will allow
both read and write and hold several gigabytes and have removabl e
media and all for under $100.00. I guess that I'm just a dreamer. Oh
well, three or four more years and it should be available. By that
time both ZIP and AE will have 25 MHz processors for my OLD IIgs, And
someone will figure out how to get thr ee dimensional video arcade
games to work on the standard Apple monitor. What's that you say??
Next year? Wow!! Steve Palmoreavery@netcom.UUCP (Avery Colter) (12/15/90)
I would have gone, but I had finals. :(
And to be honest, I'd rather spend several hundred bucks on ORCA/M than
on admission to half-day seminars.
--
Avery Ray Colter {apple|claris}!netcom!avery {decwrl|mips|sgi}!btr!elfcat
(415) 839-4567 "I feel love has got to come on and I want it:
Something big and lovely!" - The B-52s, "Channel Z"MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (12/18/90)
Just a small note about the Vision Plus Video Digitizer... It's NOT 'real time digitization'. It's 'live'.... In other words, it's ALMOST real time, but not quite. It digitizes (at it's fastest rate) at 15 frames per second. If it were real time, it would digitize at 60 frames/second. There's a considerable performance diference between 15 fps and 60 fps... Unless the new company that took control of the old Vision Plus has increased the digitization rate to 60fps, then it's not real time, although it's incredibally fast as far as Apple II digitizers go (and IBM digitizers too!). ---------------------------------------- Michael J. Quinn University of Tennessee at Chattanooga BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) (12/18/90)
In article <9012172347.AA03374@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: > >Just a small note about the Vision Plus Video Digitizer... It's NOT 'real >time digitization'. It's 'live'.... In other words, it's ALMOST real time, >but not quite. It digitizes (at it's fastest rate) at 15 frames per second. >If it were real time, it would digitize at 60 frames/second. There's a >considerable performance diference between 15 fps and 60 fps... Unless the >new company that took control of the old Vision Plus has increased the >digitization rate to 60fps, then it's not real time, although it's incredibally >fast as far as Apple II digitizers go (and IBM digitizers too!). > >---------------------------------------- > Michael J. Quinn > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm > pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com Actually, I think the hardware supports 30 frames/sec but they are having trouble getting the software to do that. Of course, I may be wrong but that is what I understand. There was a frame grabber for the Apple II that would digitize 256 * 256 with lots o gray scale or color at 60 fps. I'll see if I can dig up the article about it. -- Collin Douglas | "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt | and uncertainty." cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | America Online: CollinD | -Douglas Adams from Hitchhiker's Guide
stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang) (12/18/90)
In article <9012172347.AA03374@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: > >Just a small note about the Vision Plus Video Digitizer... It's NOT 'real >time digitization'. It's 'live'.... In other words, it's ALMOST real time, >but not quite. It digitizes (at it's fastest rate) at 15 frames per second. >If it were real time, it would digitize at 60 frames/second. There's a >considerable performance diference between 15 fps and 60 fps... Unless the >new company that took control of the old Vision Plus has increased the >digitization rate to 60fps, then it's not real time, although it's incredibally >fast as far as Apple II digitizers go (and IBM digitizers too!). A friend of mine spoke with the designer of the Vision Plus, and said the actual hardware was capable of digitizing at 30 fps, but the slot bottleneck was preventing it. Virtual Realities took over the Vision Plus, upgraded it and called it the Visionary. Since Virtual Realities folded, New Concepts has taken control of the board, but they haven't changed anything. Scott Gentry is writing new software for the Visionary called Alison, and this is to be shipped (I believe) with the Visionary. On the other hand, I heard the designer of the Vision Plus, Pete, was going to be working on a VGA board for the GS, that's just a rumor I heard. _______________________________________________ _______________ | Steve Chiang Apple //gs forever | Coming Soon: | |-----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Internet : stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | DreamGrafix | | America_Online : DWS Steve | 3200 power | |_______________________________________________|_______________|
stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang) (12/18/90)
In article <1990Dec18.015350.9171@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) writes: > > There was a frame grabber for the Apple II that would digitize 256 * 256 >with lots o gray scale or color at 60 fps. I'll see if I can dig up the >article about it. > There aren't 256 shades of grey, only 16. 256 colors is feasible though, and something untapped by developers. _______________________________________________ _______________ | Steve Chiang Apple //gs forever | Coming Soon: | |-----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Internet : stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | DreamGrafix | | America_Online : DWS Steve | 3200 power | |_______________________________________________|_______________|
cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) (12/18/90)
In article <1990Dec18.030212.11445@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang) writes: >In article <1990Dec18.015350.9171@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) writes: >> >> There was a frame grabber for the Apple II that would digitize 256 * 256 >>with lots o gray scale or color at 60 fps. I'll see if I can dig up the >>article about it. >> > > There aren't 256 shades of grey, only 16. 256 colors is >feasible though, and something untapped by developers. > > > _______________________________________________ _______________ >| Steve Chiang Apple //gs forever | Coming Soon: | >|-----------------------------------------------|---------------| >| Internet : stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | DreamGrafix | >| America_Online : DWS Steve | 3200 power | >|_______________________________________________|_______________| Correct, except this card wasn't dependant on Apple II graphics. That's how it would work on a II+ or //e. It would display the picture using its own graphics modes{. Well, it took me about an hour but I found the article. The product is/was called Imageworks II. It captures a frame in 1/60 sec and has a resolution of 256 * 256 with 256 shades of gray. Also, apparently, there is a color upgrade for the frame grabber to allow 256 colors and still the 60 fps capability. The article is in the July 1989 Issue of Incider. -- Collin Douglas | "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt | and uncertainty." cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | America Online: CollinD | -Douglas Adams from Hitchhiker's Guide
jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner) (12/19/90)
In article <1990Dec18.030212.11445@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Steven Chiang writes: >In article <1990Dec18.015350.9171@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> Collin Douglas writes: >> >> There was a frame grabber for the Apple II that would digitize 256 * 256 >>with lots o gray scale or color at 60 fps. I'll see if I can dig up the >>article about it. >> > > There aren't 256 shades of grey, only 16. 256 colors is >feasible though, and something untapped by developers. > _______________________________________________ _______________ >| Steve Chiang Apple //gs forever | Coming Soon: | Yes, but there might be on this card. Which is what I'm sure he was referring to. In the real world, there are far more than 256 shades of gray. Take a look at any politician. :-) -- ------------- Jerry Penner alberta!bode!jpenne Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) (12/21/90)
Collin, At one time (I don't know if it's still available) there was a digitizer put out by RedShift, Inc. called ImageWorks II. This digitizer could handle 256 grays, etc., but its limiting factor was simple-- once your digitized, you couldn't save the image in a format that was exportable to other programs to use. The board, if memory serves, used it's own display system -- while it could display the image in the proper form, nobody could use it. Like I said, I dunno if they're still around. The board was an intriguing concept. I tried calling them several times around 2 years ago to see if they were interested in a conference on America Online, sadly, though, they never returned my calls. _______________________________________________________________________________ | Scott Gentry * ALPE AFL Scott * I never said that!| | 2051 Mercator Drive * GEnie W.GENTRY * But you never | | Reston, VA 22091 * UUCP: uunet!ingr!ne1300! * know! | | (703) 264-5652 * brnded!scott * Do You? | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) (12/21/90)
Collin, what you said, " Actually, I think the hardware supports 30 frames/sec but they are having trouble getting the software to do that. Of course, I may be wrong but that is what I understand. "... is news to me. :-) I'm the lead author of Allison and the board, due to its design and the firmware can only do 15 frames per second. Now, then... if and this is a big if, the firmware were re-written it is possible by skipping some horizontal scan passes to get 30 frames per second. I haven't done this so I can't say for sure. Ron Mercer (Emerald Visions) has told me he's done it and said you get half a screen wide by full screen tall images at this frame rate (30 fps). That makes sense since you have to skip something. Software would have to "scrunch" the image to make its proportions proper. _______________________________________________________________________________ | Scott Gentry * ALPE AFL Scott * I never said that!| | 2051 Mercator Drive * GEnie W.GENTRY * But you never | | Reston, VA 22091 * UUCP: uunet!ingr!ne1300! * know! | | (703) 264-5652 * brnded!scott * Do You? | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
scottg@gnh-starport.cts.com (Scott Gentry) (12/21/90)
In a recent post, Michael J. Quinn at the University of Tennessee in Chattanooga, Tennessee said, and I quote, "Just a small note about the Vision Plus Video Digitizer... It's NOT 'real time digitization'. It's 'live'.... In other words, it's ALMOST real time, but not quite. It digitizes (at it's fastest rate) at 15 frames per second. If it were real time, it would digitize at 60 frames/second. There's a considerable performance diference between 15 fps and 60 fps... Unless the new company that took control of the old Vision Plus has increased the digitization rate to 60fps, then it's not real time, although it's incredibally fast as far as Apple II digitizers go (and IBM digitizers too!). " I, too, think the term "real time" is a bit misleading, but to set the record straight, the fastest frame rate _anyone_ can get from an NTSC source is 30 frames per second. The actual frame rate of the Enhanced Vision Plus board is 15 frames per second, which is comparable to the frame rate used in films, so it _can_ be called real time. The practical frame rate of the board varies a little throughout its operation as there is a software interface to consider. I tried to write as little code as was practical for monochrome fullscreen digitizing in Allison without totally smashing the rules and still allowing control over things like contrast, brightness, a pause, an escape, and two ways to save the picture. The frame rate of color digitizing is around 4 frames per second, but the practical frame rate in color, fixed palette (NOT QuickColor - I hate QuickColor) digitizing is around 1 frame per second and this is due to the way I reduce the pixelmaps size so a preview display can be used. If you have Allison and use color, calculated palette preview mode, the rate is around 1 frame every 4-8 seconds depending on number of colors in the raw image and whether or not an accelerator board is present and operating. The board is quite zippy, though. I didn't think too much of it while AST had it marketed because the color software was somewhat less than great. As the lead author of Allison, however, I'm going to refrain from qualitative judgements on the current quality of color images. The proof is in the output. Have a happy holiday season, everyone!:) Scott _______________________________________________________________________________ | Scott Gentry * ALPE AFL Scott * I never said that!| | 2051 Mercator Drive * GEnie W.GENTRY * But you never | | Reston, VA 22091 * UUCP: uunet!ingr!ne1300! * know! | | (703) 264-5652 * brnded!scott * Do You? | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (12/29/90)
... cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) writes: >>... cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Collin Broad Douglas) writes: >>> There was a frame grabber for the Apple II that would digitize 256 * 256 >>>with lots o gray scale or color at 60 fps. I'll see if I can dig up the >>>article about it. >... this card wasn't dependant on Apple II graphics. That's >how it would work on a II+ or //e. It would display the picture using its >own graphics modes. >Well, it took me about an hour but I found the article. The product >is/was called Imageworks II. >It captures a frame in 1/60 sec and has a resolution of 256 * 256 with >256 shades of gray. >Also, apparently, there is a color upgrade for the frame grabber to allow >256 colors and still the 60 fps capability. >The article is in the July 1989 Issue of Incider. Was that the card that could go up to 1024 x 1024 resolution, no color available? I remember reading about a card that could do that, but software support was damn unlikely, unless it was from the company that designed it. I sure wish I had the quoted issue handy.... >-- > Collin Douglas | "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt > | and uncertainty." > cbdougla@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu | > America Online: CollinD | -Douglas Adams from Hitchhiker's Guide That reminds me... I need to change my .signature. -- __ _____________ __ \ \_\ \__ __/ /_/ / How many Sirius Cybernetics Corporation robots \greg@hoss.unl.edu/ does it take to change a lightbulb? \_\ \_\|_|/_/ /_/ "Lights... don't talk to me about lights."