unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (09/28/90)
In article <37706@ut-emx.uucp> ifar355@walt.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes: >By the way, how many of you have seen the Integer Basic Applevision demo, >written by Brian Bishop, the same person who wrote Dung Beetles? I thought it >was rather cute :-) Wasn't Applevision the one that played some pretty darn complicated music? (complicated for the 8 bit Apple IIs with cruddy speaker IMHO). What I think is really cool is that I saw a 'port' (heh) of Lemonade to the Mac! Saw it in color on a housemate's Mac II (from work) last year. Now that seems to show that a lot of the old games are classics and are being rewritten to entertain more people. By the way, was Lemonade done first (or only, at least back then) for the Apple II or was it done for the PET, C64, etc.? [Didja know the PET stands for Personal Electronic Transactor, or something close to that?? Heard it on the ComputerBowl from the Computer Chronicles, a PBS show] -- /pqbdpqbdpqbd Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu dbqpdbqpdbqp\ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
ifar355@walt.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (09/28/90)
In article <7261@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: > > Wasn't Applevision the one that played some pretty darn complicated >music? (complicated for the 8 bit Apple IIs with cruddy speaker IMHO). > [ stuff about Lemonade being ported to a Mac deleted ] >-- >/pqbdpqbdpqbd Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu dbqpdbqpdbqp\ >\"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/ Yup, that's the program that I was talking about. It drew Hires graphics (with machine language,since Int Basic didn't have hplot/hgr and all that stuff) with a small dancing animated figure. I think "Turkey in the Straw" was the song that it played. Neat thing was that it used the PRINT command to write to the hires screen (probably the first time someone ever did that). The text on hires screen thing was rewritten by someone and published in an old issue of Nibble. BTW, what's Lemonade? David Huang | This space Internet: ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | intentionally America Online: DrWho29 | left blank
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (09/28/90)
In article <37734@ut-emx.uucp> ifar355@walt.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes: >BTW, what's Lemonade? In this game you ran a lemonade stand! Sounds utterly lame, huh? Well it was only 1/2 utterly lame.. (just kidding) You ran a lemonade stand and had to make lots of decisions. I forget what kinds of decisions though.. How many pitchers of lemonade to make or something like that.. The one thing I -do- remember about that game is one message: (not an exact quote but hopefully close enough) Your price just went up. Mom stopped giving you free sugar. -- /pqbdpqbdpqbd Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu dbqpdbqpdbqp\ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
jem@hpisod2.HP.COM (Jim McCauley) (09/28/90)
From and earlier posting: > By the way, was Lemonade done first (or only, at least back then) > for the Apple II or was it done for the PET, C64, etc.? The first version of the "Lemonade Stand" simulation that I ever saw was on a General Electric minicomputer (a 635, I think) at Dartmouth in 1968. I was told that it had been written in BASIC, but who the author was, I cannot say. I saw a similar program a few years later (about 1972) running at a Teletype terminal at the Lawrence Hall of Science in Berkeley, California. I don't know what language it was written in, but it was probably some flavor of BASIC. I'm not sure of the hardware either; it was probably either an HP or DEC mini of some kind. Jim McCauley jem@hpulpcu3.cup.hp.com Disclaimer: I speak truth, but only on my own behalf.
rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (09/28/90)
Wow...all of this discussion on "classic" apple games. You know, I'd say
soemone could really make a killing re-releasing a lot of those old games...
Here are some older ones I can remember playing also: Boulder Dash, Drelbs,
Tax-Man, Thief (Berzerk), Space Eggs, Apple-Oids, Snake Byte, Plasmania,
etc etc etc... I can't even remember the names anymore...
The great thing was, a lot of the older, less complex games that were out
10 years ago, are just as entertaining to play today (if out have tmem)
than the were when they came out...
Anyone remember the game Space Vikings from Sub-Logic? That was another
pretty good game.
Somone mentioned a while ago abut patents and copyrights-- I do believe
a patent never expires, and compyrights are for either 3 or 7 years. That
would mean unless a company re-newed a copyright on a piece of software it
would effectively go into the public domain after the copyright expired,
right? If that is the case, wouldn't it be nice to have an FTP site with
a bunch of the old, out-of-copyright Apple games? Something to consider
perhaps? (I'm not implicating that everyone go out an pirate stuff either,
so please don't flame me on this one... )
Oh well... back to work...
/\___________________________________________________________/\
\// \\/
// Randy Vose - University of Illinois at Champaign/Urbana \\
\\ rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu //
/\___________________________________________________________/\
\/ \/
WARNING: For the protection of your equipment, lower levels are
recommended for initial playback until you're sure we
aren't kidding. (Warning label on Telarc DDD CD's...)joseph@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Seymour Joseph) (09/29/90)
In lemonade stand, you had to decide how much lemonade to make (after figuring its cost per glass), How much to charge per glass and how much to spend on advertising (signs taped to nearby streetcorners). The program would throw variables like bad weather, or mom's sugar shortage at you and you had to cope. It was a pretty good, simple economic simulation. It didn't have reasonable range checking though. The more you advertised, the more people would come by your stand. My brother figured out that if you advertised enought you could charge $50 for a glass of lemonade and still sell it... Seymour
fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Andy McFadden) (09/29/90)
In article <37734@ut-emx.uucp> ifar355@walt.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes: >In article <7261@darkstar.ucsc.edu> unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) writes: >> Wasn't Applevision the one that played some pretty darn complicated >>music? (complicated for the 8 bit Apple IIs with cruddy speaker IMHO). >Yup, that's the program that I was talking about. It drew Hires graphics >(with machine language,since Int Basic didn't have hplot/hgr and all that stuff) Had assembly code embedded. He had to pull some weird tricks to keep the assembly code from relocating itself (if you saved it after running it, the assembly didn't get saved... the direct page program registers got changed). >with a small dancing animated figure. I think "Turkey in the Straw" was the >song that it played. Neat thing was that it used the PRINT command to write to >the hires screen (probably the first time someone ever did that). The text >on hires screen thing was rewritten by someone and published in an old issue >of Nibble. It's like 80 bytes plus the character table. Saw a version in an Assembly Lines column in Softalk. >BTW, what's Lemonade? AIIIIGH! Next you'll be asking "what's Space Eggs" or "did VisiCalc sell all that many copies"... 8-O Funny how all these Mac people think playing Risk on a computer is such a new experience. Anybody out there remember the Apple II version from 1979? (hint: same company as "Robot Wars") >David Huang | This space -- fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) ..!ucbvax!cory!fadden
a34@mindlink.UUCP (David Martyn) (09/29/90)
Now I always thought that the greatest game of all time was "Crossfire". You had to use both hands and four fingers on each hand. The I,J,K,L keys allowed you to move and the other E,S,D,F allowed you to fire in four directions. The highest score around here was 42,000. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Martyn, Burnaby, British Columbia | Perfection of the means of Sysop: Apples BC BBS | communication has meant David_Martyn@MindLink.uucp | instantaneity. (McLuhan) ------------------------------------------------------------------------
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (09/29/90)
In article <139800029@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >Here are some older ones I can remember playing also: Boulder Dash, Drelbs, >Tax-Man, Thief (Berzerk), Space Eggs, Apple-Oids, Snake Byte, Plasmania, TaxMan (and source code) was sold along with a compiler that (the author of TaxMan whose name I forget) was selling. -- /pqbdpqbdpqbd Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu dbqpdbqpdbqp\ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
ehsu@husc9.harvard.edu (Visual Editor) (09/30/90)
In article <28316@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> fadden@cory.Berkeley.EDU writes: >Funny how all these Mac people think playing Risk on a computer is such >a new experience. Anybody out there remember the Apple II version from >1979? > >(hint: same company as "Robot Wars") > >-- >fadden@cory.berkeley.edu (Andy McFadden) >..!ucbvax!cory!fadden I don't remember the RISK game, but my roommates and I are still playing RobotWar (from Muse, by Silas Warner). It just occurred to me, did Muse have any other programmers beside Silas? The only Muse games I can think of now are Castle Wolfenstein I and II, FireBug, and RobotWar, all by the disappeared Silas Warner (and at least the last two had his trademark screen that was totally blank except for a little "WAIT..." in the middle). If anyone has a hotshot robot they want to send me, e-mail away. My roommates are trying to create a tangent function lookup table using RobotWar's advanced indirect register addressing mode. One of them made a robot "Bob" that bolted for the top left hand corner and sat there until a certain amount of damage was taken. Then it ran top speed into the bottom right hand corner smashing and shooting itself to death. You gotta respect that robot's attitude. Eric Hsu ehsu@husc4.Bitnet, ehsu@husc4.harvard.edu
rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (09/30/90)
You can get the Taxman source listings with the Lisa/816 assembler from Brian Fitzgerald @ Hal Labs. 18942 Dallas. Riverside, Ca., 92508. You can reach Brian on BIX as "bfitz". He hangs around on Compuserve as well but I don't know his sign on name. If you have a GS, YOU should get Lisa/816. Brian's done a great job on it since I have him the original Lisa files. *** Randy Hyde O-)
ART100@psuvm.psu.edu (Andy Tefft) (09/30/90)
I remember when our high school got 5 apple ][+'s and people would spend time in there after school playing 'sabotage', which is deceivingly simple and very addictive :-) Then someone wrote a pretty decent game in applesoft which very much resembled missile command, and then there was the computer match program that was written for our high school for fundraisers. That was an impressive program - it had data files that contained different information for each student (with some duplication) which were used for different purposes. The data could be entered on 5 computers, then the files merged, then the program run simultaneously on 5 computers, the files merged again, then 5 printers could print simultaneously. As it was, with about 675 students it took all night to run and the year I did it we only had 2 printers going and it took all day. After that I re-wrote the slow parts in assembly (using the mini-assembler!) and it took a total of only (!) 6 hours for all those students. I'm sure it could have been sped up more, but hey I was a junior in high school! Then someone brought in Castle Wolfenstein, and that became the first game I owned for my //e (the game was a christmas gift). We had a joystick but we liked to play with 2 people, one firing and one moving. Fun stuff. Gee, finally a topic of discussion I can get into! BTW Muse software released super-text, which worked in 40, 56, or 70 columns, in 1982. It was written by E. Zaron.
jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) (10/01/90)
rjv21207@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > Wow...all of this discussion on "classic" apple games. You know, I'd say > soemone could really make a killing re-releasing a lot of those old games... > > Somone mentioned a while ago abut patents and copyrights-- I do believe > a patent never expires, and compyrights are for either 3 or 7 years. That > would mean unless a company re-newed a copyright on a piece of software it > would effectively go into the public domain after the copyright expired, > right? If that is the case, wouldn't it be nice to have an FTP site with > a bunch of the old, out-of-copyright Apple games? Something to consider > perhaps? (I'm not implicating that everyone go out an pirate stuff either, > so please don't flame me on this one... ) What is the deal on this? I think one of the greatest things of the // are those old, extremely clever games that people made years ago. Can these things be preserved and distributed, like on FTP sites? I don't want to violate copyright laws either, but I think these games should be amde available, so people can see how fun a // can be. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U.| | Ya Gotta Love It. | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) (10/01/90)
i don't think patents are "forever". The prob is there isn't any easy way to figure out if a oldie is still copyrighted. When some of the older companies "went under" all their software was bought by big guys. They still hold the (c). The second problem is the protection, all the old games have very intense protection, so ShrinkIt cannot pack them. Just enjoy in solitude I guess. :) prao
bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) (10/01/90)
In <6394@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) writes: > i don't think patents are "forever". The prob is >there isn't any easy way to figure out if a oldie is >still copyrighted. When some of the older companies >"went under" all their software was bought by big >guys. They still hold the (c). > >The second problem is the protection, all the old >games have very intense protection, so ShrinkIt >cannot pack them. > >prao The problem here is that programs are not patented, but rather are copyrighted, and a copyright exists for life plus either 50 or 75 years after the owner dies.. Since we do not know if someone else has purchased the copyrights on these games, or if they reverted back to the author after the company died, someone would have to track down each author, find out who the owner is, and if it be the author, get something written from them authorizing the release of the code into the public domain.. On the other hand, we do not in fact even know if, just because a copyright notice was placed on the software, the copyright was ever filed with the proper authorities. It is a big mish mash best not toyed with unless you get written notice from the proper copyright holder which may or may not be the author, depending on the terms of the agreement they made on that program. -- bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL:BSHERMAN
rhyde@ucrmath.ucr.edu (randy hyde) (10/01/90)
Copyrights last for a long time (100 years, I believe). If a company holding a copyright goes belly up, the copyright reverts back to the author. The rights to not revert to the public domain. A couple of years ago I remember some outfit rereleasing some classic Apple II games. Don't think it was much of a commercial success. Compare this to the music industry-- When was the last time a hit from ten years ago made it back onto the charts. OTOH, If the original (or a different programmer redid the work a little, it could become successful in today's market. For example, take Bill Budge's Pinball machine (one of my old favorites) and modify it to work on a GS, to take advantage of GS graphics. That's all. No further modifications. I bet it would still sell well. OTOH, I found it in a discount bin (old Apple II format) for $5 three mo.s ago. Classics, re-released without change, do not seem to do well.
unknown@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (The Unknown User) (10/01/90)
In article <6394@hub.ucsb.edu> 6600prao@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Parik Rao) writes: >The second problem is the protection, all the old >games have very intense protection, so ShrinkIt >cannot pack them. You must lead a sheltered life! (just kidding) MANY MANY of the old games are available (i.e. pirated or via patches/hacking on your originals using docs spread over BBSes) in file versions... Dung Beetles, Choplifter, Hard Hat Mack, Star Maze, Montezuma's Revenge, etc... I could go on for a while! I'm not advocating piracy, I just said that many are available that way. [Although in other posts, I've said I personally see nothing wrong with piracy used to test out programs for a period of time to see if they're good enough to buy] -- /pqbdpqbdpqbd Apple II(GS) Forever! unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu dbqpdbqpdbqp\ \"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on in prime time."-Lisa Simpson/
huang@husc9.harvard.edu (Howard Huang) (10/01/90)
Well, Stoneyville Manor was the first adventure game I ever played, and it was GREAT. Alien Typhoon is my favorite mindless shoot-em-up, and Crossfire also kept me occupied for a while. BTW: Did anyone ever play Sierra's Time Zone? I believe it cost $99 and came with 6 double-sided disks. I usually stuck with Infocom... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Howard C. Huang Internet: huang@husc9.harvard.edu Junior Computer Science Major Bitnet: huang@husc9.BITNET Mather House 030, Harvard College UUCP: huang@husc9.UUCP (I think) Cambridge, MA 02138 Apple II: ftp husc6.harvard.edu
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/01/90)
In article <HUANG.90Sep30202341@husc9.harvard.edu> huang@husc9.harvard.edu (Howard Huang) writes: >BTW: Did anyone ever play Sierra's Time Zone? I believe it cost $99 >and came with 6 double-sided disks. I usually stuck with Infocom... Yeah, and unfortunately if you followed the recommended procedure to make copies and play from the backups, sooner or later the program malfunctioned. (Apparently more than the standard number of tracks were used.) However, I did complete the game, finally, with a hint from Sierra's telephone hot line. I liked the concept, but was somewhat annoyed at the large number of total dead ends, i.e. places and times that were not essential to winning the game. Still, it was a real classic that deserves to be marketed in some ProDOS- compatible form today, like many other Apple II games that have been mentioned here.
paul@nuchat.UUCP (Paul Hutmacher) (10/02/90)
In article <HUANG.90Sep30202341@husc9.harvard.edu> huang@husc9.harvard.edu (Howard Huang) writes: > BTW: Did anyone ever play Sierra's Time Zone? I believe it cost $99 > and came with 6 double-sided disks. I usually stuck with Infocom... I tried for a night or two on my boss's machine. We'd stay late (like midnight or so) after work and play games on the "new" Apple //e the company bought. Then they showed us Wizardry and we were hooked big time. My wife thought I was fooling around because I'd never come home from work on weekends. I have said this a zillion times but I'll say it one more: We need more games for the Apple II. I bought my IIgs to play games and dammit there are none! -- paul@nuchat.UUCP {uhnix1, uunet}!nuchat!paul paul%nuchat.uucp@uhnix1.uh.edu
gwyn@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) (10/02/90)
In article <28855@nuchat.UUCP> paul@nuchat.UUCP (Paul Hutmacher) writes: >I bought my IIgs to play games ... Me, too (primarily). >... and dammit there are none! More accurately, there aren't many, even ones that could readily be ported, and there have been few recent releases for the IIGS. However, there are several good IIGS games, including some that are not available for other brands of computer. Here are ones that I recall at the moment that I own and would recommend, in roughly descending order of personal preference: Xenocide (Micro Revelations) probably Cosmocade (ditto); is this available yet? Dungeon Master (FTL?) Alien Mind (PBI) Shanghai (Activision) Tunnels of Armageddon Arkanoid I and II (Taito) probably Rastan (Taito) Thexder (Sierra) Bard's Tale I and II Space Quest I and II (Sierra) Keef the Thief Qix (Taito) Leisure Suit Larry I (Sierra) King's Quest I, II, III, and IV (Sierra) Police Quest I (Sierra) Strip Poker II (Artworx) Deja Vu I and II (ICOM) Uninvited (ICOM) Life and Death (Berkeley SoftWorks) Where in the (World/USA) is Carmen Sandiego? (Broderbund) There are others that I haven't yet played enough to form an opinion, and probably some that I simply forgot to mention.
UD182050@NDSUVM1.BITNET (Mike Aos) (10/02/90)
In article <28855@nuchat.UUCP>, paul@nuchat.UUCP (Paul Hutmacher) says: > >In article <HUANG.90Sep30202341@husc9.harvard.edu> huang@husc9.harvard.edu (Howard Huang) writes: >> BTW: Did anyone ever play Sierra's Time Zone? I believe it cost $99 >> and came with 6 double-sided disks. I usually stuck with Infocom... > >I tried for a night or two on my boss's machine. We'd stay late (like midnight >or so) after work and play games on the "new" Apple //e the company bought. >Then they showed us Wizardry and we were hooked big time. My wife thought I >was fooling around because I'd never come home from work on weekends. > >I have said this a zillion times but I'll say it one more: We need more games >for the Apple II. I bought my IIgs to play games and dammit there are none! > >-- >paul@nuchat.UUCP >{uhnix1, uunet}!nuchat!paul >paul%nuchat.uucp@uhnix1.uh.edu I've got two 3.5" disk holders full (roughly 100 disks), as well as a 45M HD full of Apple IIgs specific games (although I'll admit some are garbage, and I rarely touch any of them (although Test Drive II, Arkanoid II, ShufflePuck Cafe and Rastan still see a fair amount of use). ------- Mike Aos Death to IBM! East Grand Forks, MN (yeah, it's COLD up here) Are Amiga's really | Woz | that bad? UD182050@NDSUVM1 (.Bitnet?) | Apple IIgs | "Share and Enjoy" UD182050@VM1.NoDak.Edu | (and Sun 2/120) | -Sirius Cybernetics Corporation | 'till I can afford a NeXT | (reserved for a Mac slam)
paul@nuchat.UUCP (Paul Hutmacher) (10/04/90)
In article <4717UD182050@NDSUVM1> UD182050@NDSUVM1.BITNET (Mike Aos) writes: > I've got two 3.5" disk holders full (roughly 100 disks), as well as a 45M HD > full of Apple IIgs specific games (although I'll admit some are garbage, and I > rarely touch any of them (although Test Drive II, Arkanoid II, ShufflePuck Cafe > and Rastan still see a fair amount of use). I do too. Now I'd like some more. Something like Harpoon GS or Steel Thunder GS or any of the really rad games that are written for the PC platform. How 'bout Sim City GS? I'm just worried the software houses don't consider the Apple IIgs. -- paul@nuchat.UUCP {uhnix1, uunet}!nuchat!paul paul%nuchat.uucp@uhnix1.uh.edu
jimo@rosevax.Rosemount.COM (The Eternal Optimist @ the Infernal Machine) (10/04/90)
!
!
! In article <37734@ut-emx.uucp! ifar355@walt.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes:
!!BTW, what's Lemonade?
!
! In this game you ran a lemonade stand! Sounds utterly lame, huh?
! Well it was only 1/2 utterly lame.. (just kidding)
!
! You ran a lemonade stand and had to make lots of decisions. I
! forget what kinds of decisions though.. How many pitchers of lemonade to
! make or something like that..
!
! The one thing I -do- remember about that game is one message:
! (not an exact quote but hopefully close enough)
!
! Your price just went up. Mom stopped giving you free sugar.
Lemonade was part of the disks that came with my 2c. The game was an
elemental lesson in business. I remember it well since my wife and I
played it alot when we first got the machine. You were given X number
of $$ and could buy supplies, do building improvements and advertise
in any amounts, so long as you didn't overspend. And yes, I too
remember the free sugar cutbacks...
--
"Save your edits every 5 minutes or 5 lines, whichever comes first."rsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Roby Sherman) (12/29/90)
This holiday season, give someone the gift that keeps on giving.. The
BlackBeard, lo-res, Xmas animated scenes diskette...
Gosh.. Anyone remember that 'ol thing? Still looks good on my IIgs, even
today!
-- Roby
--
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Roby Sherman Ye olde Nets : rsherman@mthvax.cs.edu
US Snail : P.O. Box 63-04, Miami, Fl. 33163
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