ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (12/26/90)
I have done a mini-poll of the local Apple II user group in relation to a question posed a while back about the amount of GS specific programs used on GS's in relation to 8-bit IIe software. I recieved 5 responses, including myself. One person used his GS solely as a fast IIe using Appleworks 3.0 and Timeout series extenders. He had half a dozen 8-bit utilities as well. The other four used a mixture of 8 and 16 bit software, weighted more towards the 8-bit side in terms of amount of usage, Appleworks again along with Proterm. Everyone agreed that they would move to GS specific programs if any were released that were siginificantly better than the 8-bit ones currently in use. This was particularly true of AppleWorks GS, it apparently has a bad reputation and does not have the Timeout extenders which many people are dependent on. Claris has to upgrade this program and advertise the damn thing. I tend to use Proterm and Orca/C as well as a number of GS specific games. Still have a hard time beating the 8-bit wargames from SSI (but SSG is sure trying!!). My usage weighs more towards the 16-bit side, except for Proterm. So there you have it. Apparently, Apple was correct in giving a IIe emulator (they hate it when you call it an 'emulator') to the LC. This is what most people can get by on, at least new users, schools, and 8-bit die hards. This does not mean that I am about to thank Apple for this and not castigate them for not releasing a ROM04. I expect users are more willing to buy new Mac software than new GS software now that the LC is out with the card coming soon. Only after purchase will they realize the higher cost of their new system in terms of new software. I wonder how many will continue using it as a fast IIe as the years go by? UUCP: bkj386!pnet91!ericmcg INET: ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com
zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Sameer Parekh) (12/28/90)
In article <318@generic.UUCP> ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) writes: >So there you have it. Apparently, Apple was correct in giving a IIe emulator >(they hate it when you call it an 'emulator') to the LC. This is what most What do they want you to call it? -- zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM
AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET (01/06/91)
In response to Eric Mcgillicuddy: You use ProTERM? How can you use that bug-infested program? It's just completely aweful if you want to use it on a regular basis! Of course, it COULD just be me -- you know, some of us silly people think that a program will work properly MOST of the times we use it! Who were we kidding?!
marekp@pnet91.cts.com (Marek Pawlowski) (01/06/91)
AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET writes: >In response to Eric Mcgillicuddy: > >You use ProTERM? How can you use that bug-infested program? It's just >completely aweful if you want to use it on a regular basis! Of course, it >COULD just be me -- you know, some of us silly people think that a program >will work properly MOST of the times we use it! Who were we kidding?! You must have some bizzare Hardware set up there, bub. If ProTERM doesn't kick it for you. ProTERM has the terminal emulations, easy set up, wide variety of transfer protocols, scrollback, one of the best editors I have seen in my life, an unnatended mode.. So much more.. Send a list of "bugs" you have encountered to the authors. And Cc: a copy over here, and we'll see if we can help. If it doesn't work, get a refund. /* Marek Pawlowski, marekp@{generic|pnet91|bkj386|torag|aunix}.uucp */ /* President, Intelligent Twist Software, 250 Harding Blvd, PO BOX 32017 */ /* Richmond Hill, Ontario, L4C 9M7, CANADA. An ideal route is as follows: */ /* { Ph: (416) 884-4501 4-8pm EDT } generic!pnet91!marekp@zoo.toronto.edu */
GRAY@ADMIN.HumberC.ON.CA (Kelly Gray) (01/07/91)
Personally, I use one of several programs depending on what I'm doing.
ProTerm is nice when the scrollback buffer is useful, but that's about
it. There are a couple of things that I really Hate about ProTerm though.
One is the way it walks all over the Ramdisk I have on my Ramworks III,
and the other is the serious bug in the multiple BBS dialling.
Most of what I do is done with one of two other Telecom programs,
Talk is Cheap (V3.20) is my general purpose program, it lets me do some
things that ProTerm just hasn't heard of, and I use Kermit (V3.87) for
calling the computers at work because it's the ONLY program I've found
that has managed to get the VT100 emulation right.
<o_o>
_________________________ ________________________________________
/ \ / \
| Kelly Gray | The opinions expressed in the preceding |
| | message are not guaranteed to represent |
| GRAY@ADMIN.HumberC.ON.CA | any form of rational thought whatsoever |
\_________________________/ \_________________________________________/ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com (Eric Mcgillicuddy) (01/07/91)
>You use ProTERM? How can you use that bug-infested program? It's just >completely aweful if you want to use it on a regular basis! Of course, it >COULD just be me -- you know, some of us silly people think that a program >will work properly MOST of the times we use it! Who were we kidding?! >From: AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET I assume that you are being funny? Proterm 2.2 has never crashed, neither had 2.1 although it had trouble with Zmodem transfers. Once or twice it has failed t oreturn to the Finder and required a reboot. It has never corrupted a file, trashed a hard disk or floppy or done anything else even remotely resembling buggy behaviour on a regular basis and I tend to use it an average of 4 hours per day, every day. I think that I might have noticed any problems by now (over a year of continuous use). I think that you shoule read your manual and make sure that you are talking about the same program as I, make sure it is from InSync. UUCP: bkj386!pnet91!ericmcg INET: ericmcg@pnet91.cts.com
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/10/91)
In-Reply-To: message from AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET >You use ProTERM? How can you use that bug-infested program? It's just >completely aweful if you want to use it on a regular basis! Of course, it >COULD just be me -- you know, some of us silly people think that a program >will work properly MOST of the times we use it! Who were we kidding?! Ya, it's bug infested. But not so bad that you'd notice in most normal operations. I use ProTERM almost exclusively and RARELY have a problem with it. I'm also growing fond of its exceptional text editor. Quick powerful, and easy; like the rest of ProTERM. / \ / / ______________________________________________________ \\\' , / // ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\//, _/ //, INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \_-//' / //<, /\\ UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \ /// <//` //\\\ ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil / >> \\\`__/_ ///\\\\ /,)-^>> _\` \\\ ////\\\\\ The opinions expressed here belong to (/ \\ /\\\ // IIgs \\\ no entity(s), living or dead! // _//\\\\ ------------------------------------------------------ ((` ((
daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com (Dave Harvey (SysAdmin)) (01/11/91)
In-Reply-To: message from AABENSON@MTUS5.BITNET >You use ProTERM? How can you use that bug-infested program? It's just >completely aweful if you want to use it on a regular basis! Of course, it I don't know what version you're using but I'm using vers. 2.2 and have found no bugs in the program and I use it a lot. The older versions before 2.0 were buggy so maybe that's your problem. proline: pro-novapple!daveharv | uucp: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv | Pro-novapple BBS arpa: crash!pnet01!pro-novapple!daveharv@nosc.mil | 300/1200/2400/9600 Baud Internet: daveharv@pro-novapple.cts.com | 703-671-0416 | Northern Virginia Apple Users Group | P.O. Box 8211, Falls Church, VA 22041 |
johns@pro-library.cts.com (System Administrator) (01/12/91)
In-Reply-To: message from lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com > Ya, it's bug infested. But not so bad that you'd notice in most normal > operations. I use ProTERM almost exclusively and RARELY have a problem > with it. I'm also growing fond of its exceptional text editor. Quick > powerful, and easy; like the rest of ProTERM. Speaking of the editor. Does the new version have a larger buffer for the editor? Or is their an enhancement for version 2.1? I use the editor alot, and some of my files are too big to be loaded at once. Thanks in advance. John ---- ProLine: johns@pro-library | Pro-Library BBS 206/694-3276 UUCP: orgicse!clark!pro-library!johns | 3/12/2400 baud, 24hr, register ARPA: crash!pro-library!johns@nosc.mil | Apple*Van, Vancouver, WA. Inet: johns@pro-library.cts.com | Vancouver Apple Users Group ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GRAY@ADMIN.HumberC.ON.CA (Kelly Gray) (01/12/91)
If ProTerm is such a great program, perhaps someone out there can help
me with this problem.
I have an enchanced //e running ProDOS 8 V 1.9, ProSel 8 V 4.0, and
ProTerm V 2.1. I also have a Ramworks III card with 1 Meg of memory. I am
using the RAMdisk driver from ProSel to set up half of my Ramworks card
as a RAMdrive is slot 4 drive 1. ProTerm proceeds to set up a scrollback
buffer that is considerably larger than the free space on the Ramworks
card, so I can only conclude that it is setting up to overwrite the
RAMdisk. ProTerm does NOT remove the RAMdisk driver, nor does it reduce
the size of the RAMdisk to accomodate the scrollback buffer.
How can I set up ProTerm to leave the RAMdrive memory alone? The manual
only says that Proterm will recognise either AE's ProDrive or the ProSel
driver, but as far as I can see, it does neither.
I have tried moving the RAMdisk to other slot/drive combinations, but I
end up with the same results no matter where I put it. I have also tried
using the AE driver instead of the ProSel 8 driver, with no change in the
results.
<o_o>
_________________________ ________________________________________
/ \ / \
| Kelly Gray | The opinions expressed in the preceding |
| | message are not guaranteed to represent |
| GRAY@ADMIN.HumberC.ON.CA | any form of rational thought whatsoever |
\_________________________/ \_________________________________________/dunadan@blake.u.washington.edu (Steven Owen) (01/14/91)
GRAY@ADMIN.HumberC.ON.CA (Kelly Gray) writes: > I have an enchanced //e running ProDOS 8 V 1.9, ProSel 8 V 4.0, and >ProTerm V 2.1. I also have a Ramworks III card with 1 Meg of memory. I am >using the RAMdisk driver from ProSel to set up half of my Ramworks card >as a RAMdrive is slot 4 drive 1. ProTerm proceeds to set up a scrollback >buffer that is considerably larger than the free space on the Ramworks >card, so I can only conclude that it is setting up to overwrite the >RAMdisk. ProTerm does NOT remove the RAMdisk driver, nor does it reduce >the size of the RAMdisk to accomodate the scrollback buffer. My system is almost identical to yours, except I'm running ProDOS 1.8. I use ProSel, ProTERM 2.1, and have my 1 MB Ramworks III configured entirely as a RAMdisk (I use ProSel's driver and leave the RAMdisk in slot 3, drive 1 as /RAM). And, as you point out, every time I start up ProTERM, it says I've got 690k of scrollback space. However, since I usually keep my /RAM volume 25% full (I run a BBS, and store files in /RAM to speed things up), I would expect that some of these files would be deleted or corrupted; especially since, at times, my scrollback can get quite large (a routine ProTERM session would be reading 5-6 Usenet newsgroups, and a couple of local bulletin boards). This has never happened. I can only surmise that when ProTERM sets up its scrollback buffer, it only uses the non-occupied blocks in /RAM, or perhaps uses up memory from the "end" of the RAMcard, moving forward as it fills up. I dunno. It's a weird beast, and one would expect the program to be able to recognize available RAMdisk space and use it only if it isn't already configured as a ProDOS volume. > How can I set up ProTerm to leave the RAMdrive memory alone? The manual >only says that Proterm will recognise either AE's ProDrive or the ProSel >driver, but as far as I can see, it does neither. I have yet to find a way to do this. Anybody? Anybody? (Bueller?) One last note of import: I used to use the CACHE program in ProSel, but have found it to be less than reliable. While using it with ProTERM, I discovered one day that a couple of the bitmap and volume directory blocks on my hard drive had been erased; also, I quit using it with my BBS (run under BASIC.SYSTEM and ModemWorks) when it kept corrupting random blocks on the hard drive; it eventually messed up enough important subdirectory header blocks that I had to reformat the drive. I quite using CACHE completely after that, and have yet to encounter any problems with it similar to what I was experiencing before (it's been nearly 9 months, and all I get is an occasional I/O error, which is normal for a 5 year-old drive that's run continuously for the past year and a half). --Mike Owen, sysop of the Broken Blade: (206) 781-9424, 300-2400 baud, 24 hrs
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/15/91)
In-Reply-To: message from johns@pro-library.cts.com >> Ya, it's bug infested. But not so bad that you'd notice in most normal >> operations. I use ProTERM almost exclusively and RARELY have a problem >> with it. I'm also growing fond of its exceptional text editor. Quick >> powerful, and easy; like the rest of ProTERM. > >Speaking of the editor. Does the new version have a larger buffer for the >editor? Or is their an enhancement for version 2.1? I use the editor alot, >and some of my files are too big to be loaded at once. Thanks in advance. > >John The editor still has 56592 bytes, which makes it rather limited for heavy duty text processing. It is large enough for most of my needs. / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- // _//\\\\ ((` ((
lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com (Laer Haider) (01/16/91)
In-Reply-To: message from lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com >The editor still has 56592 bytes, which makes it rather limited for heavy >duty text processing. It is large enough for most of my needs. Oops! I meant 46592 bytes. / _______________________________________________ \ / / ProLine: pro-beagle!lhaider \\\' , / // INET: lhaider@pro-beagle.cts.com \\\//, _/ //, UUCP: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider \_-//' / //<, ARPA: crash!pro-beagle!lhaider@nosc.mil \ /// <//` / >> \\\`__/_ The opinions expressed here belong to nobody! /,)-^>>_\`, \\\ (Anybody see nobody lately?) (/ \\ /\\\ ----------------------------------------------- // _//\\\\ ((` ((