joe@hanauma.stanford.edu (Joe Dellinger) (03/19/90)
In article <90077.155936JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu> JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu (Abaddon) writes: >In article <1990Mar18.095408.1765@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu>, >toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) says: > > Correct me if I am wrong, but under DOS 3.3 wasn't disk access based >in software (RAM) and wasn't writing based on critical timing loops. Yes. The timing was so critical, in fact, that the position of some of DOS's code relative to page boundaries MATTERED, because of the 1-cycle timing difference that could make for some 6502 commands. Because of this, there were some "holes" scattered through DOS 3.3 so that the critical hunks of code would be properly aligned! (PS: My Apple is so old that Prodos won't even boot on it. Anybody know why? Doesn't matter to me, I keep my old Apple for its antique value these days. It's a ][, not even a ][+ ...) \ /\ /\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\.-.-.-.-.......___________ \ / \ / \ /Dept of Geophysics, Stanford University \/\/\.-.-....___ \/ \/ \/Joe Dellinger joe@hanauma.stanford.edu apple!hanauma!joe\/\.-._ ************** Drive Friendly, Y'all! ******************************************
toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) (03/19/90)
joe@hanauma.stanford.edu (Joe Dellinger) writes: >In article <90077.155936JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu> JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu (Abaddon) writes: >>In article <1990Mar18.095408.1765@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu>, >>toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel) says: >> >> Correct me if I am wrong, but under DOS 3.3 wasn't disk access based >>in software (RAM) and wasn't writing based on critical timing loops. Sorry to nitpick but I didn't actually say that. [ explanation of DOS 3.3 software timing deleted ] I might add that the fact DOS 3.3 was RAM based meant that the computer acted as the drive controller, and the interface cards and drive hardware could be extremely simple as a result. This was one of Woz's greatest hacks and I think it's probably the single greatest hardware hack in PC history. The fact that it demanded a lot from the CPU didn't become a problem until recently when we started using interrupts; the //c+ has a disk coprocessor and that takes care of it. The bulky drive controllers that everyone else was using at the time were far more expensive than the Disk ][; this was a major factor in the inital success of the Apple ][ and //e. That and the BASIC in ROM gave the base system quite a few capabilities that people found endless use for, and still do today. Todd Whitesel toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu
stephens@latcs1.oz.au (Philip J Stephens) (03/19/90)
In article <429@helens.Stanford.EDU>, joe@hanauma.stanford.edu (Joe Dellinger) writes: > > Yes. The timing was so critical, in fact, that the position of some of DOS's > code relative to page boundaries MATTERED, because of the 1-cycle timing > difference that could make for some 6502 commands. Because of this, there > were some "holes" scattered through DOS 3.3 so that the critical hunks of > code would be properly aligned! Yeap, writing disk routines for the good ol' 5 1/4 inch drives is fun. Understanding how the bugger works is even more fun. I consider my biggest achievement so far on my humble Apple ][+ was being able to disassemble the raw code from the RWTS and finally (after many, many hours) _actually_ understanding what on earth it was doing! No mean feat, I can tell you, considering I had no idea what the I/O soft switches were used for, or what the encoding scheme was, or the fact the drive arm used a stepper motor with four phases... Come to think of it, I must have been mad... ;-) > (PS: My Apple is so old that Prodos won't even boot on it. Anybody know why? > Doesn't matter to me, I keep my old Apple for its antique value these days. > It's a ][, not even a ][+ ...) Wow! An Apple ][! That certainly would be worth a bit nowdays, wouldn't it? Has it got a 16K language card? Because if not, that would be the prime candidate for Prodos not booting (considering it resides underneath the ROM!). If it's got less than 48K, then that's another reason why it won't boot, since it needs the address space from $BF00-$BFFF. In fact, if you've got less than 48K, then only an original DOS 3.3 master disk (or it's slaves) will boot on a ][! Not only that, an Apple ][ wouldn't even be self booting, would it? Doesn't it just crash into the monitor when you turn it on? I remember we had such a beast (probably not a ][ though) at High School many years back. I suppose your ][ doesn't even have AppleSoft in the ROM's? Or lowercase? Only 2 colours (excluding black and white) in Hires? How much will you sell it for... :-) </\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\></\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\> < Philip J. Stephens >< "Many views yield the truth." > < Hons. student, Computer Science >< "Therefore, be not alone." > < La Trobe University, Melbourne >< - Prime Song of the viggies > <\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/><\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/>
sharris@brahms.udel.edu (Scott A Harris) (01/15/91)
Is there anyone out there that has/knows of a reliable disk speed checking
program for 3.5' apple 800k disk drive. Mine keeps eating my disks.
Or is there maybe something else wrong?
Thanks
Scott
--
Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu
HIO01142 @ udelvm.udel.edu
71311,2700 @ CompuServe sharris12 @ GEnie MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (01/16/91)
On Tue, 15 Jan 91 06:48:13 GMT Scott A Harris said: >Is there anyone out there that has/knows of a reliable disk speed checking >program for 3.5' apple 800k disk drive. Mine keeps eating my disks. >Or is there maybe something else wrong? You're supposed to use a SCRATCH disk! The disk timer writes to the disk at any place it feels like and times how long it takes what it wrote to spin around. >Thanks Sure thang. >Scott > >-- >Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu > HIO01142 @ udelvm.udel.edu > 71311,2700 @ CompuServe sharris12 @ GEnie ---------------------------------------- Michael J. Quinn University of Tennessee at Chattanooga BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (01/16/91)
In article <9101151725.AA25009@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: |On Tue, 15 Jan 91 06:48:13 GMT Scott A Harris said: |>Is there anyone out there that has/knows of a reliable disk speed checking |>program for 3.5' apple 800k disk drive. Mine keeps eating my disks. |>Or is there maybe something else wrong? | |You're supposed to use a SCRATCH disk! The disk timer writes to the disk at |any place it feels like and times how long it takes what it wrote to spin |around. | |>Thanks | |Sure thang. | |>Scott |> |>-- |>Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu |> HIO01142 @ udelvm.udel.edu |> 71311,2700 @ CompuServe sharris12 @ GEnie | |---------------------------------------- | Michael J. Quinn | University of Tennessee at Chattanooga | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com You mean there really is a speed checker for 3.5" disk? If so, I stand corrected (about my previous post that said that there was no such prog) -- David Huang | Internet: ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!ifar355 | a piece of chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
sharris@brahms.udel.edu (Scott A Harris) (01/16/91)
In article <42565@ut-emx.uucp> ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes: >In article <17662@brahms.udel.edu> sharris@brahms.udel.edu (Scott A Harris) writes: >>Is there anyone out there that has/knows of a reliable disk speed checking >>program for 3.5' apple 800k disk drive. Mine keeps eating my disks. >>Or is there maybe something else wrong? >>Thanks >>Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu [stuff deleted about disk speed] >What do you mean by "eating my disks"? Does it write weird stuff, get read >errors, or what? > When I say eating the disks I mean when I try to write to a disk it tells me that the disk may be damaged. Then I do a verify on the disk and it gives me a list of 3 bad blocks, always the same blocks. It started as a random fluke, but now I am trying to backup my hard drive and 1 of every 2 disks get the error. I just today took the drive back to the place of purchase and they said it is the timing thats off. They charge $75 an hour and a $25 checkin fee, I'd like to try to stay away from than. Anymore help would be greatly appreciated. Scott -- Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu HIO01142 @ udelvm.udel.edu 71311,2700 @ CompuServe sharris12 @ GEnie
MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET (01/18/91)
On Tue, 15 Jan 91 19:32:49 GMT <info-apple-request@APPLE.COM> said: >You mean there really is a speed checker for 3.5" disk? If so, I stand >corrected >(about my previous post that said that there was no such prog) I'm not sure. I really don't know of any (not to say they don't exist), but I was just talking about disk speed checkers in general. >-- >David Huang | >Internet: ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in >UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!ifar355 | a piece of chewing gum!" >America Online: DrWho29 | ---------------------------------------- Michael J. Quinn University of Tennessee at Chattanooga BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com
ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) (01/19/91)
In article <9101181643.AA26783@apple.com> MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET writes: |On Tue, 15 Jan 91 19:32:49 GMT <info-apple-request@APPLE.COM> said: | |>You mean there really is a speed checker for 3.5" disk? If so, I stand |>corrected |>(about my previous post that said that there was no such prog) | |I'm not sure. I really don't know of any (not to say they don't exist), but |I was just talking about disk speed checkers in general. | |---------------------------------------- | Michael J. Quinn | University of Tennessee at Chattanooga | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | pro-line-- mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com Ah, I was just wondering since the original poster was talking about his 3.5 drive. I guess one could be written, but it wouldn't be of much use, since I've read that Apple 3.5's are impossible/extremely difficult to adjust. -- David Huang | Internet: ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | "My ganglion is stuck in UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!ifar355 | a piece of chewing gum!" America Online: DrWho29 |
llee@gnh-starport.cts.com (Larry Lee) (01/20/91)
" You mean there really is a speed checker for 3.5" disk? If so, I stand corrected (about my previous post that said that there was no such prog) " There should be no need for a 3.5" drive speed checker, as it constantly corrects itself. Or at least that's what I read. Also, when you look on the bottom of a 5.25" drive, there's a tiny little pinhole. That's where you're supposed to adjust the drive speed there is no such hole on any of my drives (AMR, AE, and previously Apple). | ProLine.: llee@gnh-starport | Millions long for immortality who | | UUCP....: crash!gnh-starport!llee | don't know what to do on a rainy | | InterNet: llee@gnh-starport.cts.com | Sunday afternoon. | | AO .....: Watch this space! | -- Susan Ertz |
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (01/26/91)
... sharris@brahms.udel.edu (Scott A Harris) writes: >... ifar355@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David H. Huang) writes: >>... sharris@brahms.udel.edu (Scott A Harris) writes: >>>Is there anyone out there that has/knows of a reliable disk speed checking >>>program for 3.5' apple 800k disk drive. Mine keeps eating my disks. >>>Or is there maybe something else wrong? >>>Thanks >>>Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu >>What do you mean by "eating my disks"? Does it write weird stuff, get read >>errors, or what? >When I say eating the disks I mean when I try to write to a disk it tells >me that the disk may be damaged. Then I do a verify on the disk and it >gives me a list of 3 bad blocks, always the same blocks. It started as a >random fluke, but now I am trying to backup my hard drive and 1 of every 2 >disks get the error. I just today took the drive back to the place of >purchase and they said it is the timing thats off. They charge $75 an hour >and a $25 checkin fee, I'd like to try to stay away from than. >Anymore help would be greatly appreciated. Okay, that clears part of it up. With the wording of the original post, it looked like you were saying the disk speed checking program was eating your disks. An ambiguous "mine" which was supposed to be referring to the 3.5" drive, not the speed checker. Is one of the bad blocks $0002 ? It sounds like a problem I had with one of my drives, and it turned out the only thing Eakes Office Products of Grand Island, Nebraska could do for my drive was to replace all the internal workings, which fixed it, but wasn't fun. Lost some good programs of mine from that, and I didn't have backups. :-( I may be wrong about $0002, as it was awhile ago, but it sounds right. >Scott >-- >Scott A. Harris sharris @ brahms.udel.edu sharris @ chopin.udel.edu > HIO01142 @ udelvm.udel.edu > 71311,2700 @ CompuServe sharris12 @ GEnie -- /// ____ \\\ Lig Lury Jr. (greg@hoss.unl.edu) | |/ / \ \| | Megadodo Publications \\_( \==/ )_// Megadodo House \__\\/ Ursa Minor